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A post I made on the RPGWatch Forums that bares repeating.(Skyrim any why we get angry)

Discussion in 'Bethesda Game Studios' started by roll-a-die, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. Kaanyrvhok Arbiter

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    Compared to the other RPGs that sell 10+ million ie Pokemon and Final Fantasy Skyrim is pretty artsy. They nailed the environment. Subtlety, the game has in spades; certainly in ways Oblivion surely didnt.



    I was 10 hours in when I encountered my first disease. Skyrim's difficulty is a mixed bag. Its inconsitent and at the same time it does feel standard as if the level scaling is just slicker. In defense of Skyrim their new system is simpler on the surface only. As an RPG system its pretty strong. If D&D is the standard it has it beat. My main beef with Skyrim's RPG mechanics is shared by every TES game cept maybe Redguar Its the fast and ofteleveling. I'm more of a fan of RPGs with a small level range.


    Bethesda is doing what many others should have done a long time ago. Back on the Interplay forums as Goblinorgy I predicted that single player action RPGs would be huge when they moved to consoles. Most disagreed with me for several reasons. They werent anime, the Tolkien shit was too geeky for the hip hop gen, only TB RPGs sold on consoles, they were too buggy and you cant patch on consoles, they were too high brow, people would rather just have action games blah blah blah etc etc...​


    For all of its mainstream appeal Skyrim is still the geeks CRPG wrapped in its consoles package. Yes that is true I play Skyrim on the PC with a 360 controller. It plays like ass with a mouse. Its still a CRPG and still a hardcore game. Bethesda has 10 million people crafting, enchanting, surmising the largest perk tree Ive ever seen, playing a 100 hour game, fighting creatures that stupid mutha fuckers cant pronounce. This is good for the genre. Compare that to Daggerdale and Wizards of the Coast. The oweners of D&D are doing facebook games. Long live Bethesda.​


    Haha!!! I agree there. Bethesda isnt smart. The rest are just dumblazy.



    Based on Skyrim, a game in Summerset would come with a new fun cover shooting mechanic for forest bow fights. It might even have a perk that lets you go bullet time. That might be in Skyrim already for all I know. Skyrim was mainly about fighting dragons and they got that right. Action combat is usually shit and it is really derp city when fighting larger dragon size creatures. I have fun fighting Dragons in Skyrim. If the factions arent memorable then it maybe a product of two things. Skyrim has a simple plot. Compared to Daggerfall and Morrowind most games have really simple plots. Its better that Bethesda go with a simple story than botch something complex like they did with FO 3. Maybe Obsidian could do a Summerset game.





    True. At least they look the part this time around. Thats an upgrade from Oblivion.






    If marketing is designing this game then they need to do a seminar for the rest of the industry. This is still the type of game that wasnt supposed to reach Halo, and CoD numbers. This is no Mass Effect. Bethesda sold into the theory that their style was mass marketable. I could understand if you were talking about the accessibility or mechanical changes made from Morrowind to Skyrim. You are talking about art, plot and writing. Skyrim has the art. The dialogue and voice acting is above the typical Xena warrior princess industry stuff. The only thing left to examine is the plot and how many games are going to have a better plot than Morrowind? You cant bust their chops for that.
     
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  2. flushfire Augur

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    o_O
     
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  3. DragoFireheart all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.

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    That's what I thought. I like Skyrims system more than Morrowinds but lol at it being complex. Daggerfall is complex. Fallout 1 is complex. Skyrim is streamlined.
     
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  4. Kaanyrvhok Arbiter

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    Debateable. 6 primary attributes and a few skills vs the perk constalations. I was comparing it to 4e D&D. On the surface its not as complex. When you break down how xp is gain by use and proportion to its value to your character the math starts to boil over a pen and paper system.
     
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  5. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    :decline:

    Beats me.

    :retarded:

    By this logic Diablo has staggering amount of politics. Not only does it have an actual king (albeit undead and quite insane), not only does it have a plot by power-hungry, devil worshipping archbishop, but good part of backstory amounts to angelic/demonic spy thriller with both factions having their agents walking among the mortals in disguise and waging covert war against each other.

    Fortunately, this logic is invalid:
    -derpy doomsday cult doesn't make the MQ political
    -derpy homicidal necromancers don't make the MG political
    -the MQ is marked by conspicuous lack of any political tensions that would have resulted from death of emperor
    -the emperor was made from political figure and head of the state into a crystal dragon jesus

    It doesn't get any *less* political even if you try.

    I'm not deep into Skyrim, but at least it seems to have political conflict and political sides in it with their own goals beyond "I R TEH GUD" and "FOR TEH EVULZ".

    It's also massive incline from Oblivious in many aspects - atmosphere, art direction, character faces, NPCs, NPC dialogue, combat, lockpicking (still a minigame, though), story and so on.

    The only parts that took a hit is general RPG mechanics (I'm not sure it can be called an RPG anymore, with obligatory JoAT start, no signs/traits, rapid advancement and no attributes), gear and spell customization/magic system (few pieces, no spellmaker, more effects cut out) - in terms of RPGness it continues sharp decline (albeit mitigated by perks), likewise in terms of freedom as marked by disappearance of last mobility spells and customization.
    Not just text, man, not just text.
     
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  6. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

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    Fallout...complex?
     
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  7. Menckenstein Lunacy of Caen: Todd Reaver

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    Who do you work for? :rpgcodex:
     
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  8. villain of the story Arcane

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    And what hits are these? Skyrim is a better RPG than Oblivion for all the differences and reductions in game mechanics. It is less of an RPG but still a much better one than Oblivion. Oblivion was bloated with stuff that didn't mean shit. Stuff in Skyrim works pretty straightforward in comparison and they make a difference between builds.
     
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  9. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    There is less of it, therefore it took a hit.
    Also, since it's less of an RPG than Oblivious, which is hardly an RPG at all, it's not really an RPG.
    Finally, whether or not removal of all that stuff resulted in a game more suited for bethesduh's meager balancing skill, there is still the problem that rich mechanics like spellmaking or enchanting or multitude of utility and stat affecting spells were core to TES experience, but have been removed in Skyrim.
     
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  10. villain of the story Arcane

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    I meant to say that it's less of an RPG in general, not necessarily from Oblivion.

    And brother, all that stuff were already out in Oblivion so let's drop the act. Skyrim is the better RPG. IMMA TOTALLY FEEL IM ROLEPLAYIN FUCK YEAAAH
     
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  11. Commissar Draco KKKodex WCDS Commissar Patron

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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    They are atributes: Magica, Health and Stamina which affects.... carring capacity, and signs are in although picked from the countryside... I play 100+ hour completed both MQ and Legion sub quests, Companions and going on my faithfull steed I've stolen from Riften quest to wipe out Muslim Dark Brotherhood, but the game starts to fall apart... crashes to desktop coused by clifhangers Dragons and some retarded guys dueling me couse I am a Mage (didn't joined cheated my way to library in MQ ;) ) Good little touch: Mage screaming: You cheat! when I behaded him with my sword. :smug: Game is streamlined as fuck but playing as warrior is much more different now than Mage or Rogue. And you must thing what abilities to use or you will end up with fucked Jack of all trades up PC. Completed maybe 70% of quests but will play the goty version with proper patches, DLCs and mods. Maybe as Elven fagot mage or more likely Dark elf Rouge/Assasin... For God sake don't touch MQ as long as you can.... until removing random Dragons mod is ready.
     
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  12. roll-a-die Magister

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    I came up with a decent explanation for how I feel about Skyrim.

    So imagine you live in a town where cars are forbidden and you live on the outskirts with a small community of people. There's 2 roads in to your community, one which is quicker but you've been advised to avoid it by your neighbors for reasons they haven't elaborated upon, but amount to that it runs through the forest. So one day, you throw caution to the wind and take the quicker path. The road is amazing at first, so pretty, with a few sweeping vistas, and nice long flowers. About 10 minutes into the 2 hour long walk along this path, you feel a sting in your arm, shrugging you continue on, continuing to look at the vistas, and stopping to gawk at a waterfall. There you feel a second smaller sting in your arm. Not really enough to take note, after all you are walking along a road that is fairly overgrown. You are 20 minutes into the walk. Shortly thereafter you come across a hut in the forest, and chat with a pleasant lady inside of it. Making casual conversation, not really paying much attention to the old biddy she doesn't really talk in proper English, until you realize it's really time to go. As you leave the small clearing with the old biddy's shack, you feel a third sting in your arm. Again probably just a bit of a tree in your sleeve, you are now 40 minutes into your walk. Gradually you begin to notice you are starting to grow numb to the beauty of the road, of the flowers and trees and the creek that runs alongside it. It's just pointless glamour, even if it's beautiful, it serves no technical purpose beyond being pretty. Moreover, you've felt a fourth sting, this one a little more painful than the last. It's quite chill in this forest, so you don't want to take off your shirt to get that blasted stick out. Gradually you set out at a quicker pace, trying to get through this path, as quickly as possible. You get stung 4 more times before you realize your arm is going numb. You quickly strip off your shirt, and the realization comes crashing down, this is why the folks in the town told you to avoid this road, it's infested with leeches. Gradually as you walked your arm has gotten covered in leeches, there's about 12 of them on your forearm alone. You break into a run, knowing if there's that many on your arms the rest of your body must be covered as well. You arrive at the end of the forest road, not knowing how such beauty could have such terrible drawbacks, not how it could have lured you into a false sense of security so easily. As you walk into the town outskirts looking harrowed, a woman comes up to you, offering you a drink, cool refreshing water, you vaguely realize all at once, you are lacking a shirt and she is lighting a torch, slowly she mutters, "Welcome home, next time don't be an idiot and just take the safe bet with the Old Road." You only vaguely hear this as you pass out. Waking up shortly thereafter leeches gone, and small burns all over your body. You vomit and realize you are late for work, and slowly start to walk the Old Road. Knowing if you rush, you may make it in by the tail end of the 2 hour grace period. Vowing never again to walk the new forest road.

    Fun part, after playing Skyrim, the Witcher 2 and Deus Ex HR department(The only good one of the lot), I'm currently playing Ultima Underworld, Fallout 2 and Stonekeep. Need to fucking wash the horridness away with genuinely good games.

    Note, I'm currently trying to get over food poisoning, so this is probably a little disjointed.
     
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  13. Elwro Arcane

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    Me too. The game is simply wonderful. (A lot better than Stonekeep imho.) Now I see how one can view even the main quest dungeons of Daggerfall as poor cousins of UU's dungeon...
     
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  14. roll-a-die Magister

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    Stonekeep is a game I've only really ever seen mentioned as a good game, I picked it up on GoG for Christmas on a whim, along with a copy of fallout 1/2, and all of the ultima games, and Freespace. All I have to say about it for now, is good grief is it full of right angles. UU and Daggerfall both have these really expansive dungeons full of all kinds of interesting geometry, and Stonekeep is like, LOL I CAN HAZ RIGHT ANGLE PLZ.
     
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  15. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Skyrim cannot be the better RPG, because it's not an RPG.

    It's a better game, but in terms of mechanics it went full retard with the decline.
     
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  16. villain of the story Arcane

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    Skyrim is a better RPG and a better game. I'm sorry you can't understand that.
     
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  17. Serious_Business Best Poster on the Codex

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    Why do I give a shit if Skyrim is a rpg or not? Didn't we establish that "rpg" was just a word already?


    Oh yeah.

    Okay then fatso, you win
     
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  18. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Wine A is a better beer than wine B. What.
     
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  19. villain of the story Arcane

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    All I see is some guy crying because the last game doesn't have his precious attributes or whatever, without respect to how they worked previously, if at all, which they didn't in Oblivion which Skyrim fixed, thus is a better RPG, despite being geared towards action gamers (which is almost oxymoronic since the action in the game just plain sucks compared to "dedicated" / pure action titles).
     
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  20. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

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    Throwing something out of a system because it does not work instead of spending time to improve it and make it worthwile has nothing to do with "fixing", it's dumbing down.
     
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  21. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    This.

    And not just attributes - how about spellmaker or other (non cosmetic) customization options?
     
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  22. crufty Arcane

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    I have a lot of fun with skyrim. Whether on accident or on purpose the mechanics are innovative.

    Yes there is some decline in there. I have been keeping notes and will post walls of text later.
     
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