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Worst Bioware antagonist?

  • Saverok(BG1)

    Votes: 4 2.4%
  • Jon Irenicus(BGII)

    Votes: 7 4.3%
  • Saren(ME1)

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Darth Malak(KotOR)

    Votes: 9 5.5%
  • Amelyssan(Throne of Baal)

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • Maugrim(NWN)

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • Heurodis(The other NWN expansion)

    Votes: 4 2.4%
  • Mephistopheles(Hordes of the Underdark)

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Master Li(Jade Empire)

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • Harbinger(ME2, 3)

    Votes: 5 3.0%
  • Sovereign(ME1)

    Votes: 2 1.2%
  • Archdemon(DA:O)

    Votes: 16 9.8%
  • Corypheus(DAII, DA:I)

    Votes: 24 14.6%
  • Loghain(DA:O)

    Votes: 9 5.5%
  • The Illusive Man(me2,3)

    Votes: 10 6.1%
  • The Gigantic Terminator Robot from the end of ME2

    Votes: 29 17.7%
  • Solas(Tresspasser DLC)

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Meredith (DAII)

    Votes: 12 7.3%
  • Death's Hand(Jade Empire)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kai Leng

    Votes: 21 12.8%

  • Total voters
    164
  • Poll closed .

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Archdemon, because it was the most uninpsired, trite, boring and idiotic character ever. The story never tells you why he attacks, you learn nothing of his motivations, etc. No one else is blander or more forgetable among Bioware's antagonist, albeit they have quite a few shitty ones.

Ultimately, you cannot even call it a "character" since it is closer to a lego brick Bioderp needed to fill that big gaping hole in their story with a big bad.

It's a big fucking diseased dragon, what sort of motivation does it need? The reason for it attacking is kinda the whole mystery of the series.

There is no ingame indication that the archdemon is driven insane or that it is driven on some other reason whatsoever. You get a few growls and that is it, it attacks "cuz reasonz". I am not even saying there would have been a need to make a fully detailed lengthy explanation, but come on, at least give us a hint, a glimpse, something.

Flemeth was an evil dragon as well but got a lot more background in comparison.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
629
The archdemon is bizarrely overdeveloped for a thing that's just a big dumb monster. Fallen dragon god of beauty corrupted by its followers trying to seize heaven by sorcery in a by-gone age reduced to an ugly corrupt thing ruling over a horde of ugly corrupt things who want to turn the whole damn world into a big ugly corrupt thing. Not a bad angle to work with, you got a dragon Sauron thing going there but it has less character than even some random darkspawn in the horde.
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
21
There is no ingame indication that the archdemon is driven insane or that it is driven on some other reason whatsoever. You get a few growls and that is it, it attacks "cuz reasonz". I am not even saying there would have been a need to make a fully detailed lengthy explanation, but come on, at least give us a hint, a glimpse, something.

Flemeth was an evil dragon as well but got a lot more background in comparison.

The game explains that they're basically sleeping dragon gods driven mad by the darkspawn's corruption. I'm just not seeing why what's essentially an destructive force of nature needs a character. Loghain was the real villain of DAO; the archdemon was a plot device.

TIM and Corypheus are the worst. TIM because he's supposed to be a dastardly schemer but accomplishes absolutely nothing. Corypheus is so useless the player character ruins his master plan before the start of the fucking game.
 

Jarmaro

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,466
Location
Lair of Despair
Problem with DA:Orgins was, at least for me, that most the time Loghain was the only guy I liked. Since beggining three things are clear:
- Kind is retarded and is incapable of dealing with Darkspawn
- Loghain is experienced and skilled in fighting, he's a hero that commanded forces which casted away Orlesian's army. He knows fighting king's way is retarded
- Duncan, despite being wise good mentor (at least he acted as such) supports king's retarded plan

These three things are enough to understand that he's retreat during battle was logical choice that eventually let Ferelden survive. If he sticked to the king's plan, everyone would die.
Game never lets us to agree with Loghain. It may be logical, as Duncan was leader of Grey Wardens and for Loghain Wardens were danger, but we still could somehow meet him and accept his way.

The biggest issue with him, is that after battle of Ostagar he starts acting like retard. Letting his second hand torturing nobles (for no reasons actaully), selling elves for money (it's one of the most retarded things I've ever seen, I understand he needs all money he can get, but seriously selling elves IS NOT good way to get money to run country). The writters done it on purpose so we have reason to dislike him, beceause otherwise It wouldn't have much sense.
 
Unwanted

Kalin

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Zionist Agent
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
1,868,264
Location
Al Scandiya
Weird poll. Full of names I don't recognize from games I'd never play. And it isn't even public.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
Irenicus is the only nonretarted one they have ever made it seems.

Sarevok is also a very good villain. It's a very simple character but his introduction is great and his goals are clear. Also his maliciousness does not exist for the sake of itself, it always serves a clear purpose and is merely a tool to achieve his goals.

I also liked the Reapers, atleast the basic concept behind them. Not necessarily their presentation though.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
Sarevok is also a very good villain. It's a very simple character but his introduction is great and his goals are clear. Also his maliciousness does not exist for the sake of itself, it always serves a clear purpose and is merely a tool to achieve his goals.

I also liked the Reapers, atleast the basic concept behind them. Not necessarily their presentation though.

Agree with that. Just shows how it's not really that hard to create a poignant villain. So why so many games fail at it is strange.
Flemeth had some real potential, but DA:2 fucked all that up.
Same with the Illusive Man. A mysterious rumour in ME1 made flesh in ME2, and given this wonderfully grey morality where good & bad were really all about POV & perspective. Biowares decision to turn him into a Scooby Doo villain for ME3 remains one of their most cringe worthy yet.
 

Jarmaro

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,466
Location
Lair of Despair
Irenicus is the only nonretarted one they have ever made it seems.

Sarevok is also a very good villain. It's a very simple character but his introduction is great and his goals are clear. Also his maliciousness does not exist for the sake of itself, it always serves a clear purpose and is merely a tool to achieve his goals.

I also liked the Reapers, atleast the basic concept behind them. Not necessarily their presentation though.
Did reapers have any concept behind them? Maybe you mean lack of concet was concept itself
 

Jarmaro

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,466
Location
Lair of Despair
Sarevok is also a very good villain. It's a very simple character but his introduction is great and his goals are clear. Also his maliciousness does not exist for the sake of itself, it always serves a clear purpose and is merely a tool to achieve his goals.

I also liked the Reapers, atleast the basic concept behind them. Not necessarily their presentation though.

Agree with that. Just shows how it's not really that hard to create a poignant villain. So why so many games fail at it is strange.
Flemeth had some real potential, but DA:2 fucked all that up.
Same with the Illusive Man. A mysterious rumour in ME1 made flesh in ME2, and given this wonderfully grey morality where good & bad were really all about POV & perspective. Biowares decision to turn him into a Scooby Doo villain for ME3 remains one of their most cringe worthy yet.
Flemeth never was a villian nor she was presented as such
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
Flemeth never was a villian nor she was presented as such

She could have been though, that's my point. She was wonderfully selfish/survivalist in DA:O, and had she been a main villain in 3 then that would have provided a great insight into her motivations + philosophies, and offered a more spherical POV on said main villain. It's the route I would have taken.
In true uber-wank EA/Biowank style they gave her big tits and tried to make her a GILF instead.
Having her return and form a mutually beneficial alliance with the hero of DA:2 made sense, and should have lead to her involvement in whatever "ultimate evil/catastrophe" lie in wait in DA:3 be traceable to some of the Wardens & Heroes actions earlier. Thus the paradox of good deeds actually leading to evil ones, and leaving the last game ending/choices in question of whether stopping the ultimate evil in 3 would in turn lead to worse/evil events in the future.
 
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Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
The archdemon is bizarrely overdeveloped for a thing that's just a big dumb monster. Fallen dragon god of beauty corrupted by its followers trying to seize heaven by sorcery in a by-gone age reduced to an ugly corrupt thing ruling over a horde of ugly corrupt things who want to turn the whole damn world into a big ugly corrupt thing. Not a bad angle to work with, you got a dragon Sauron thing going there but it has less character than even some random darkspawn in the horde.

Guess I gave up to early to get to that information but the game was so banal shit boring and streamlined. The only thing I completed were all of the Origin stories since they were over fairly quickly.

Does not really change my opinion of the lego brick "demon".
 

AstralStorm

Educated
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
68
Location
Land of Underground Orange
May I remind everyone that The Terminator Reaper wasn't an antagonist, just a video game boss? Shitty one of course.

Now TIM... yes. I was actually torn between Retard TIM and Discount Ninja Kai Leng. All the others have at least some writing. Most other antagonist had at least an interesting twist to them. Even Meredith (as dumb as she is). Corypheus has a backstory that is a bit explained in the game at least and is an interesting skin switcher in concept. Writing is bad though.
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Most of these names don't ring a bell. :obviously:
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
How does everyone not just ebcause the stupid medusa who cna't even turn people into stone IIRC. LMFAO I mean that is what mnakes a medusa a medusa in the firts palce. It is like having a succubus who won't have sex to tempt mortals. Oh wai-.....
 

mbv123

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Messages
917
Location
Lettland
tumblr_m1ue7jfEnu1qdydf6o1_500.jpg
 

Roscoe Scaggs

Novice
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
42
Corypheus because I spent half of DA:I wondering why everyone was like 'oh yeah Corypheus' and I'm like 'literally who?' because I didn't drop money on DA2 DLC.

Reaper-bot at least showed someone at Bioware had a sense of humour.
 

hellbent

Augur
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
322
Voted Heurodis from NWN Shadows of Undrentide. At least some of the other choices on the list that I'm familiar with had a personality, even if it was not the most cleverly written. She was lame and easy to beat when you finally got to fight her. Plus, she went full-on Batman or Bond Villain by just "stoning" you instead of killing you when she had the chance.
 

Alkarl

Learned
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
472
"Hi, I'm Corypheus, I want to destroy the world. My hobbies include being a mild nuissance, sucking at life, losing important items, granting the power to destroy me to my enemies, and long, long, looong walks in the fade." Or something, I really don't know, game was boring as fuck.
 

ilitarist

Learned
Illiterate Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 17, 2016
Messages
857
"Hi, I'm Corypheus, I want to destroy the world. My hobbies include being a mild nuissance, sucking at life, losing important items, granting the power to destroy me to my enemies, and long, long, looong walks in the fade." Or something, I really don't know, game was boring as fuck.

I'm genuinly surprised there wasn't semi-necessary mission of learning more about the guy. You learn some stuff about his leutanant AFAIK but I don't even remember how you get this info. Him being a magister may be good enough if you played the first game but still a surface level characterization.

At least the final battle was swift.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
6,165
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
See topic and post in thread. Individual characters, no 'races' like the Darkspawn or Reapers

For it's it's Corypheus just because he's a shitty DLC's final boss and he spends the entire second half of the game getting cucked out of each and every one of his plans, and then he's easily the most boring fight in all bioware games.

The Arishok from DAII should be on the list since he was definitely their best written antagonist if not their best antagonist.

An antagonist hiding in plain sight.

I'm voting for Meph, but their best is probably Saren.
 

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