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Age of Wonders 1 or 2???

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by crazy_dave, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. crazy_dave Educated

    crazy_dave
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    Which should I play? And what are the differences between the two...
     
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  2. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

    SCO
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    2 (orginal and shadow magic).


    They have a nasty memory leak. Restart every 5 hours or so.

    Bitches won't release another patch.
     
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  3. Reject_666_6 Arcane

    Reject_666_6
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    I used to play AoW1 a lot as a kid. The atmosphere was really good, it had nice artwork of the units and backstories for them and the combat was awesome. Exploration mode was standard fare. City development was very basic: you upgrade a city over a couple of turns and it would immediately allow production of the next tier of units. The campaign was interesting and branched out a lot until the final scenario.

    AoW2 is basically an upgrade of AoW1 in all areas. It introduces the new "Wizard's sphere of influence" system, which at first I didn't really like, but it grew on me. City development is massively improved. You can now build a shitload of buildings that unlock specific things. There are more spells now and they're well-done. There are new races, some of which replaced some old ones from AoW like the disappearance of the Arzacs and the introduction of the Tigrans as a replacement. Combat is unchanged, though as a personal preference I think that AoW combat had a slightly better feel to it. The campaign's not as well-done, mainly because it's very linear now, but it does have a bit of branching, which was a pleasant surprise because of how well-hidden the choices are.

    As an example, there's one mission where you start allied with the Orcs versus the Frostlings, I think (maybe it's the other way around). It would never cross your mind to bribe the Frostlings like mad until you become peaceful with them, then turn on the Orcs and defeat their leader. This activates a whole new ending for the mission and has some neat consequences.

    Overall, AoW is to AoW2 exactly like HoMM2 is to HoMM3.

    Shadow Magic is supposedly AoW2++ and most people think that it's better to play this than vanilla AoW2. New races, new magic and that's about all I remember from it.
     
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  4. MetalCraze Arcane

    MetalCraze
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    Both, they are very different.

    But ignore AoW2, play AoWSM instead - it's the superior version of 2.

    Not really. It's just different and at some points it was more of a downgrade (like very boring looking and designed castles which are basically 4 walls in AoW2+) and the diplomatic AI is dumb (I remember buying all of its shit but capital and then simply finishing it off). There is a mod-patch for AoWSM which fixes the AI a bit though, but don't jump so happily - as I said "mod"-patch, meaning that modders just fucking had to fuck up the game with new units that don't fit into the game.

    AoW1 is more of a standalone HoMM-like, while AoW2+ was a MoM-clone.
    Then again AoW1 has a huge disbalance because of heroes - one hero of 20+ lvl can single-handedly put down whole armies. I remember it took me 3 armies to put down a single army of lvl22 hero and he killed most of my dudes.
     
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  5. Reject_666_6 Arcane

    Reject_666_6
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    It's true that I didn't like a few new things in AoW2. I guess I consider it an "upgrade" in a very loose sense, in that they tried to expand and improve everything with varying degrees of success. Like I said, most things on the combat screen don't feel as good as they were in AoW. I never noticed the diplomatic AI thing, but I guess I'm too much of a warmonger to use it too often.
     
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  6. MetalCraze Arcane

    MetalCraze
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    I found it by pure coincidence. When I was playing online I decided to make buddies with AIs that we set up to fill all slots and act like obstacles. And then I noticed that AI will sell you anything (but capital) provided you pay enough (even if your relations are bad) - and money is easy to get in AoW2+ so in a hour or so I nearly bought off 2 AIs.
    I then retried it several times in skirmishes and it was the same. Meh.

    In AoW1 AIs hold to most important towns and resources hard and will never sell them. Diplomatic relations also influence any deal you make.
    I vaguely remember another thing when playing against AI in AoW1 that I didn't like though - it appears there is no "allied victory" thing so even your ally will go to war with you the moment when only two of you will be left on the map.

    AoW1 and AoW2+ are like two different games, which I find to be a positive thing.
     
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  7. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Actually, there is.

    AoW has better atmosphere, races and campaign story. AoW: Shadow Magic is AOW2, but better and with a different campaign. Shadow Magic is pretty much better in everything except number of players (you can play with max 12 players and with all races in a AOW map, but not on a AOW:SM map), though two players can't use the same race in AOW.

    The one problem of AoW is that heroes are mega-powerful. In AOW2 and SM, you can only melee attack so much per turn. In AOW, you can hit the enemy with counter-blows as long as you're alive and unparalysed. Ridiculous scenes where two entire stacks of melee warriors are all crushed by a invicible hero with no fatigue happen sometimes. In SM and AoW2, there's a limit, so its possible to use cannon-fodder to drawn out the hero's movement points and then send a strong unit to fight said hero while he can't counter-attack.

    I don't like item forge in SM, its a cool idea but allows completely munchkin-ish itens to be made. With enough money, one hero can a melee juggernault AND multi-task other things. Think a hero who throws lighting, fires cannon balls, blows poison darts, can dominate and has a lot of resistances and ridiculous over-the-top stats. Oh, and he's phisically resistant because he has the water sphere enchatment into a ring. And if you hit him or he hits you, you may also be paralysed with a lighting enchantment. He also floats.
     
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  8. pipka Savant

    pipka
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    Play both. They are just too different.
     
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  9. Malakal Arcane

    Malakal
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    I only played AoW2 and Shadow Magic, and had more fun in AoW2 campaign. Don't know why, as everyone says SM is definitely better, but I even finished those campaigns.
     
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  10. Lonely Vazdru Pimp my Title

    Lonely Vazdru
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  11. Carceri Arcane

    Carceri
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    I liked the re-playability of the campaigns, you even get to make minor choices, hehe.
    And I agree with everyone saying the heroes are way too powerful. I made most of the attacks in the second half of the campaigns with just 2 heroes, but I had to do every battle manually because on automatic the AI managed to epically fail every single time. He can't handle only two heroes.
     
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  12. Darth Canoli Learned

    Darth Canoli
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    Sorry for the necromancy but when i read this :

    To me, that means AoW2 is far inferior.

    Brings me to why i searched about AoW, i overlooked this franchise for some reason and after trying Shadow magic for 1 hour (tutorial 1 and part of the second one), i begin to think i was just right.

    Anyone to change my mind ?
    I think i've read AoW III is not very good and apparently, AoW 2 is the best one, so far, there's pros and cons and i'm not sure i can get over the defaults.

    Really feels like a turn-based Lords of Magic, which is nice but :

    - the teenager hero, Symon or something, not very engaging
    - first tier halfing ranged units are worthless (centaur and halfing slingers)

    - in the second tutorial, a single bat of doom destroyed one sherif + 2 cavaliers + one centaur + one hellhound + one eagle there were 3 other units which i dispatched "easily"; centaur would miss 3 shots from 2 squares away, cavaliers couldn't hit it, the eagle was already dying and the sherif could shoot at it at first but when he was the last man standing, his retaliations prevented him from using his ability so he couldn't hit anymore ...

    - it's a pain to navigate through the UI to find the city building menu when you don't have a message (maybe i'll juet get used to it)

    For that, it feels like a cheap Lords of Magic but
    - it's turn-based and the combat is alright
    - i really like how units can attack multiple times if they don't move or use just one third of their movement
    - the assaults on fortified places seems interesting
    - dragons and shadow world, seems like there is a lot to discover

    I've read other threads where some mods are highlighted.
    - Is there some mods to replace the main sorcerer ?
    - Do the units gain some experience ? Doesn't seem like it, any mod to add it ?
    - Anything to enhance the experience ?
     
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  13. Arrowgrab Learned

    Arrowgrab
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    That's just the karmic price halfling slingers have to pay for being the single most hilariously overpowered unit (with the right enchantments) in Master of Magic.
     
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  14. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    :what:
     
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  15. hellbent Augur

    hellbent
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    Units earn XP, and you can gain increased stats and new abilities with some. I haven't played AoW1 in some time, but it is a fun TBS. There's a lot of good info for new players here that might help answer some of your questions as you start out. I've looked up that info in the past on that site whenever I get back into AOW1 since I didn't have a manual until I picked up the GOG release.
     
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  16. Darth Canoli Learned

    Darth Canoli
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    hellbent thanks for the link, shadow magic is AoW 2 / 2.5 though, i think.

    Zboj Lamignat Lords of Magic was an amazing underrated game, i'm not sure how he does nowadays though but i'd replay the shit out of it if it was TB, that's his single default. Beating the game and being able to replay as the dark lord of death was one of my best gaming experience.
    Actually, from what i've seen, AoW is heavily inspired by Lords of Magic and/or they're both inspired by the same source.
     
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  17. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    It really wasn't. And definitely not when compared to AoW series.
     
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  18. Holistic Gynecologist Literate

    Holistic Gynecologist
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    AoW1 has better visuals, MUCH better writing/campaign plot, better music and atmosphere. But it has serious gameplay issues. (inferior combat system favouring melee units, overpowered heroes, etc.)

    AoW SM has better gameplay (3AP combat system, less OP heroes, magic-focused leaders, etc.), but lacks in visuals, atmosphere and plot/writing.

    FFH2, MoM, CoE4, Eador: Genesis and BIRTHRIGHT are better for casual fantasy empire LARPing, though.

    Edited: I liked AoW3's tactical layer, but the visuals are too blurry and bloomy for me to enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
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  19. Great Deceiver Arcane

    Great Deceiver
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    The greatest inspirations for AoW are Warlords and Master of Magic.
     
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  20. Darth Canoli Learned

    Darth Canoli
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    Holistic Gynecologist thanks for your insights.

    Master of Magic, well, if you go that way, every crpg is inspired by Master of Magic, of course, it was a pioneer.
    Warlords, i don't see it at all and i played my fair chare of Warlords I and II
    Really, it takes a lot from Lords of Magic which is a good thing, i always thought it could be easily improved with a good TB system.

    So, i played further, starting a real campaign (the tutorial is a piece of shit) and it's good, quite tough when you just start and you don't know what you're doing but i guess it'll be too easy too soon.
    Started the nomad campaign of Shadow Magic and the orcs killed me 5 times before i found the way to the east (i just had to click on the tower, couldn't get past it otherwise) , i even tried to go north, to fortify.
    Past this, it's good.

    I'm glad i didn't play it before, something new to discover.
     
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  21. Ismaul Arcane Patron

    Ismaul
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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    I have yet to play anything else than AoW1, but it is what drew me in (I tried AoW2 years ago and didn't like the Wizard emphasis, but I intend to give it another chance eventually). AoW's great visually and the music is pretty good, combat is fun and the campaign is really solid: 2 campaigns, one for each side of a conflict, with a bunch of branching in each storyline.
     
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  22. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    AoW1 has the better atmosphere and campaigns, but the AI is so poor that for single player only quest type maps are playable.

    AoW2 has no boat AI whatsoever, and is thus not a finished product and only worth it for the campaigns, or possibly for multi-player.

    AoW2:SM has overall the best (but still too poor) AI, is most moddable (I think), and is most balanced (no über heroes). Is also quicker to play than AoW 1 since there's no lining up phase in combat, and there's far more options to breach walls in sieges.
    So overall SM is my favourite. Just about the only downside is that the editor does not support making campaigns like the AoW1 editor did.

    Haven't played AoW3 yet.
     
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  23. Great Deceiver Arcane

    Great Deceiver
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    AoW has almost exactly the same stack mechanics, and automatic combat resolution is very similar. Map elements such as ruins work almost exactly the same - AoW expands on these ideas obviously by introducing tactical combat and it's a more refined game with many more elements, but it's interesting to go back to Warlords after playing AoW and to look at it from a different perspective.
     
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  24. Lagi Learned

    Lagi
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    AOW1 resemblance to Warlords:
    • streamlined city management, focus on strategy map (not sim city)
    • fixed cities locations
    • deep territory riding with razing enemy cities
    • milking artifacts
    • 8x unit stack
    to MoM:
    • magic system and mana/research adjustments
    • combat
    as for the range unit, archers seems to me, more useful than T1 swordsman (melee counter attack is deadly for early infantry). And lots of ballista's seems as optimal (till you reach end tier unit) addition to your 10 Def hero :)
     
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