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Age of Wonders 1 or 2???

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by crazy_dave, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. MilesBeyond Erudite

    MilesBeyond
    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Fire Sphere is really weak, yeah. Funnily enough, it suffers from the same problems as Fire Magic in HoMM 3 - it is, ostensibly, the offensive magic school, but has some of the weakest offensive spells. Flaming Arrow, Call Flames, Fire Breath, and Swarm are all really underwhelming and Fireball is only so-so. The only thing Fire has going for it damage-wise is Sacrificial Flame cast by a hero with Fire Halo. Fury is a pretty wimpy unit enchant, Fire Barrier is extremely niche, IIRC Anarchy doesn't even work (or at least not on higher levels), Fire Elemental is an unimpressive summoning, and what's even the point of Fire Mastery? So what does Fire have going for it? Fire Sprite is a pretty good early summon, Fire Halo can be a useful enchant, Cloud of Ashes has its place, Warmonger is a neat late-game enchant, and Fire Storm is what it is.

    Adding insult to injury, Fire's opposite, Water, is way better at direct damage spells despite the fact that these aren't even Water's focus. Ice Shards is way better than Flaming Arrow or Call Flames, Geyser and Frost Beam are both way better than Fire Breath or Swarm, Great Hail is substantially better than Fireball and can be better than Sacrificial Flame depending on the situation. Fire just does not stack up to Water, and that's not even taking into account spells like Healing Water, Liquid Form, or Flood. The humble Healing Water is one of the most useful spells in the game. Did they finally manage to wear your uber hero down to only a couple hit points? Haha whoops, they're back at full health!

    I liked AoW 1's concept of opposing spheres, but in practice it didn't work out that well. Life vs Death was mostly a matter of which race you chose, Water vs Fire had a single clearly better option. The only really difficult choice was Air vs Earth.

    Also, as for your 1st point, funnily enough in AoW 1 lvl 1 units are, in theory, the strongest units to use against uberheroes. The way AoW 1's mechanics work, there's always a 10% chance of a hit and a 10% chance of a miss. When a hero is pimped out with max defense, you want to start getting in as many attacks as possible. In practice that doesn't actually work out though just because of AoW 1's upkeep mechanics: mass-producing hordes of T1 units will bankrupt you very, very quickly (for reference: For the production cost of one Red Dragon, you could get roughly 14 Orc Swordsmen. However, those Orc Swordsmen would cost you 56 gold per turn. The Dragon? 10).

    I maintain that unit upkeep weirdness is one of the main causes of T4 spam in AoW 1 and SM. Especially annoying because IIRC upkeep costs are hardcoded.
     
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  2. Lagi Learned

    Lagi
    Joined:
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    :kingcomrade: moar!

    here is shameless promotion of my UI script. Please, don't hesitate to grumble about it poor quality
     
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  3. BING XI LAO Savant

    BING XI LAO
    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Upkeep formula is moddable in aow2 if you install the MPE 2.0 mod, which modifies the game's .exe and comes with a powerful modding program. Also in aow2 you can give units the summoned promotion to make them cost mana for maintenance. In AoW1 we're out of luck though.
     
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  4. vota DC Learned

    vota DC
    Joined:
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    2019 is near and means 20 years of Age of Wonders. Will they release source code?
     
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  5. Lagi Learned

    Lagi
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    does anyone ask Triumph to do it?
     
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  6. BING XI LAO Savant

    BING XI LAO
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    People have in the past, but not for a while now I think?
    What's the best way to go about asking? I love modding these games but I don't know about technical stuff, I just use tools provided by more tech-savvy fans. So I don't know if I'd even benefit from source code, maybe you'd be able to use it?
     
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  7. Lagi Learned

    Lagi
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    sure, I'm godlike haxxor - I would change the DEF cost of hero & other upgrades and press F7 to compile.
    seriously - That incline after source release would be massive. Its perfect game, just poorly "equalized". Lots of old fags here has tremendous knowledge about it.

    edit:
    ok, i can send mail to paradox. How do people ask Devs usually about the source? write post on official forum?
     
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  8. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
    Joined:
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    Do they still have the source code? A lot of ancient gaming source codes were lost, ya know - Fallout, for example. Hell, some guy found a CD with the Starcraft source code one of those days.

    Wow, twenty years. I feel old. I discovered the original AOW in a CD Expert Magazine demo in the early 2000s, spent YEARS trying to find the game for purchase in local shops (a local distributor was selling then). Never found it, piracy bailed my ass. I remember downloading Shadow Magic years later using a 56k modem. I spent a week or two of straight downloading, but DAMN IT if it wasn't worth every single moment.

    Source Code would be great, but would Triumph even do it? Don't forget, they're selling a new game.

    If they can't/won't, then I think it would be just as good to pull a "OpenXcom" - make a new engine, make it load the assets of the original without including them in the download.

    The original AOW still has things its predecessors never had - like 12 players.
     
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  9. vota DC Learned

    vota DC
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Messages:
    861
    Even simple things like a short sighted archer can't be done: skills can't be modded or added so an archer minimum attack will be 4 attack and 2 damage.
    I need for lore reason to change relation. I did food chain mod there too (like in aow3) with the campaign too but for example Follettus Demens is supposed to be friendly with United Sewers because they have Lizardmen among population so I was inspired by goblin-lizardmen alliance in Ultima Underworld 1. If source code is in I am quite sure you can set manually race relation: they aren't tied with alignment since there are some spells that change it and also there is Highmen-Human relation that would be wary if only alignment count.
    I am not sure if something like Regrowth skill from AOW3 can be implemented even with source code since it would require a new mechanic.

    Yes, but in 2004! 5 years after is really a short time but 20 years is another matter.
     
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  10. Lagi Learned

    Lagi
    Joined:
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    "Dear Paradox, forward this to ex-Triumph employee:

    When you gonna make new patch to Age of Wonders 1? there is lots of OP stuff waiting to be nerf. [here list of stuff]
    Would like to remind You, that you are still selling AoW1 [link to steam,gog]. That means there is interest in this gem.
    I suggest You to make expansion to AoW1 with new campaign, new units & abilities, new terrain & fixed stuff. Or if you REALLY have to make (gods forbid, its already aesthetically flawless, and one of the best looking game ever) - remake, doing it 3d you will only make it worse. 3d will never has a charm of 2d (even if its mechanically a better game).

    If you currently dont have manpower to do it, them please consider releasing the source code. So multiple individuals can make thousands version of AoW1 (like with Doom). And do it before Christmas 2018/19 because I dont have free time after that.

    best regards,
    No-one from RPG codex"
     
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