Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

TBS Age of Wonders: Planetfall - AoW gone to space

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by LESS T_T, May 19, 2018.

  1. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15,653
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    The secret tech are all unappealing to me, I end up taking promethium because there's nothing that's right for proppa choppy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Cyberarmy Love fool Patron

    Cyberarmy
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,522
    Location:
    Smyrna - Scalanouva
    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    This game has space dwarves in it!
    And they are greedy capitalist pigs who murder planets just for profit. That's all I need.
    :love:
     
    • incline x 3
    • Funny x 2
    • Brofist x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,871,585
    Location:
    Belém do Pará
    I think they are symmetrical at the basic level mainly because there's only so much you can do with basic stuff like swordmen and archers.

    Yet, there is plenty of difference. (Dark) Elves are the best archers and have seducers, Goblin t1 revolves around poisoning people and letting them attack you first (and bombs), Azrac T1 is made of pure cheesery (dude, elephants), Orcs got the buffest swordsmen, Halflings got slingers and pony riders (who are one of the best T1 units), humans got the Pikeman (which is a superior version of the Goblin spearman), undead have hellhounds and a bag of resistances, dwarves have berserkers, etc.

    But yeah, I do agree it could be done better. Some races have plain boring t1, like humans (who are supposed to be mega-vanilla tbf), lizards, high men, undead, while other races have awesome T1 like Orcs, Elves, Half-Lings and Azracs.

    I don't think they are balanced. Its obvious that Orcs are the best race in 1.

    SM had pretty good racial diversity, the real problem is that because cities are not restricted in unit production (and can grown), t1 units don't matter. At all. They are just there to help you fight until you reach T3.

    But AOW3 racial diversity was pretty lame until many patches and expansions in. Even now, as a rule, the best units are class ones.

    One thing that annoys me across EVERY SINGLE AOW game, is no parallel production. You can't use your extra production to crank out masses of T1 every single turn. Pretty sure in AOWSM and 3, that a properly-kitted out city can churn-out T2 and even T3 in a single turn... yet you can't use that to build more than one T1 unit at once. Even in 3, where T1 are better than ever.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  4. BING XI LAO Erudite

    BING XI LAO
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    Rhodesia
    AoW1 has a lot of samey units, but when it does something unique, it goes all the way with crazy stuff like physical immunity on the wraith, the Elephant (massive gamechanger in multiplayer just for having wallcrushing on 30 MV), Air Galleys, the Incarnate possessing people, and so on.

    I do think there is much to be said for playing with a mod, even a basic one like my Sword and Sorcery mod (available at the heavengames site), just to add thematic things like Fire Breath for the Hellhound, or making Musketeers dirt cheap.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. vota DC Learned

    vota DC
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Messages:
    944
    I am not sure in fact that having every cities that can grow the same being a great idea. First game with big cities but that can you still have to upgrade was great, they just needed to develop that. Even Heroes of Might and Magic 3 added the option to disallow some structures to avoid to make every city the same!

    I guess that was the first game and they didn't care about balance and that was a great thing. You just had archer, infantry, ram, cavalry, priest and siege....and they weren't even tier based (cavalry was usually tier 2.....but halfling had it in tier 1, then halfing had paladin that was healer too). With 2 they "standardized" priests and they added the militia units. With 3 they added pikemen etc....before patch you didn't even have tier 2 pikemen like goblins and frostlings.
    Also samey units had nice unit description with some exception (Azracs and frostlings archer descriptions were brief and lame) but they lacked gameplay stuff. For example was cool that Lizardmen used shark tooth and tridents as weapons but that didn't changed NOTHING. Also Azrac swordmen were very skilled (5 attack instead of 4) but with low defense (1 instead of 2) because low armor that was cool except the fact they had a freaking shield and still halfing slinger had more standing power than them! Also will get the skeleton description "they move at slower rate than same size humanoids".....well they don't...not sure why, maybe they were trying to split strategic map movement (here skeleton are fast: they never sleep or get tired) and tactical combat speed but feature was scrapped?
     
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Messages:
    17,041
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    To be honest AoW must be the games with most races in the 4x genre. Also the RPG elements are pretty good,don't remember another 4x game that have that many traits and the option to research them after you started. Most of the 4x have the same garbage as this shitty game,you choose 2-3 traits and start the game,that is it.:decline:

    Fuck,Age of Wonders is the best 4x game now that i think about it.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    9,236
    I'd say it has too many races and that's why they had to balance them symmetrically. The differences come mostly from minuscule irregularities between stats nobody will notice or grand, theatrical abilities on a few units like physical immunity or wall crushing on the elephants.
     
    • Despair Despair x 1
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,871,585
    Location:
    Belém do Pará
    AOW is not a 4X, AOW is a Turn-Based Strategy game.

    Talking about things that the originals did better... why are all the newer AOW games capped at 8 players per map, when the original allowed for 12?

    Agreed. In my AOW experience, I barely gave a shit to size 1 little hamlets, I often didn't even give them defenders and treated like gold mines that can produce t1 units. Size 2 and beyond were what mattered, with size 3 and 4 being the most important prizes because they allowed me to quickly produce the really powerful units, or at least

    One possible idea is that some places should be growth-capped, and through those caps, they are limited from certain kinds of building. But it should be natural/soft caps, say with some places simply being in shitty terrain that can barely support anything.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. BING XI LAO Erudite

    BING XI LAO
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    Rhodesia
    Come to think of it, modding can also greatly increase the number of abilities you're allowed to select at levelup. Any skill is a possibility and the cost of said skills is also adjustable. Even really wacky stuff like Flying. Really, AoW1 is greatly underrated with what can be done with mods and map design - I intend to make a map that's full of imprisoned Spellcasting 5 heroes and have it be a massive magical shitshow. Most multiplayer games are dominated by mundane troops, especially archers, so it'd be nice to have one with elementals everywhere, firestorms, etc.
    In one PBEM game on a map I made we're already having a whole mass off summoned eagles facing off against fire-halo-ed warships on a subterranean river - the game is such a great chassis, with stuff like teleporters and 1-way teleporters, lava rivers that can only be crossed with fire immunity (or flying, I suppose). Loads of possibilities.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  10. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15,653
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Planetfall is 12 though.
     
    • incline incline x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. anvi Cipher Village Idiot

    anvi
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Messages:
    3,782
    Location:
    Norrath
    Can you make glorious doomstacks with OP heroes and units?
     
    ^ Top  
  12. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,871,585
    Location:
    Belém do Pará

    Massive INCLINE! :incline:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • incline incline x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15,653
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    By this do you mean like a stack of a million peasants like in HoMM? Fuck no. Units might have upto six individual soldiers, and every army can have upto 6 units. You can have 6 armies surround an enemy and serve the whoppass, however.
    As for heroes, if you build them right they seem capable of taking down 2-3 units per turn.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,871,585
    Location:
    Belém do Pará
    Talking about stacks, I kind of hate only having six units per stack. I liked to make well-rounded stacks.

    Also, not only they decrease stack numbers, they don't give an option to "attach" stacks to one another so you can move multi-stack armies without getting pissed the fuck off.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  15. The Red Knight Scholar

    The Red Knight
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    187
    You can disable city growth and select what specific buildings are available (the latter both globally and per city). So the difference is between hardcoded city tiers, and players or mapmakers having to apply these manually. Flavourful selective disabling being underutilized in scenarios would be a different issue. A wasted potential of AoW2 is making all cities have the same map size as it diminishes their strategic differencies.

    Though if I recall correctly, they haven't playtested the lack of growth properly and you can downgrade cities without being able to expand them again. Builing outposts + lack of growth is also rather boring (outpost-tier cities may vomit out a basic unit once in a blue moon and are worse than buildable towers of AoW1 for defending chokepoints).

    There are also strategic racial abilities like water walking, mountaineering and night vision. The races being mostly generic fantasy human variants (vanilla humans, pointy ears forest humans, short highlander humans, short farmer humans, cave-dwelling humans, deus vult humans, ugly unwashed barbaric humans, desert humans, etc.) and the sprites looking samey is what contributes to there not being bigger mechanical and visual variety between races.
    That said, I do find the uniform military feel of AoW1 enjoyable to go back to every now and then.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15,653
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Only real gripe with AoW1 and 2 is that I have to invest in magic. And in 3 whatever my style of play, the sovereign is gonna be cavalier as fuck.
    Plus I am strategically impaired so I never get far in these games anyway.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. anvi Cipher Village Idiot

    anvi
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Messages:
    3,782
    Location:
    Norrath
    Kind of yeah, but AoW1 had some super powerful units, like a Wraith that was immune to physical damage, and the airship that could kill a unit from a mile away with its javelin. But mostly it was the heroes which basically had no limit on their strength, so if you could keep them alive until the end and keep feeding them endless exp, a single hero was strong enough to kill an army by itself. And if you then have a stack of maybe 5 overpowered heroes, a couple of wraiths or dragons or something to help out, and then put them all in an airship... it was a single stack to rule the world!

    AoW3 nerfed the whole thing in the name of balance [​IMG] which is still fun in a different way, but I miss the 'doomstacks'. I think if you make a game like this too balanced, it becomes boring, like playing a basic RTS. Mass produce a bunch of whatever units and go fight your enemy's whatever units, and as long as you have more, you win. Hoping this game is more interesting than that.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,871,585
    Location:
    Belém do Pará
    Wraiths are kind of a funny unit. On paper, they can kill like 90% of every single unit in-game because they no-sell purely physical attacks. They also feature AOW1's Undead bullshit immunities to pretty much everything, so they will ignore like 50-25% of your magical rolodex, and barely feel a buncha stuff. Add a simple "Enchant Weapon" that's dirty cheap and the Wraith's dark hood made of foulest dark sorceries and pure, malevolent evil oozing into reality, falls away to reveal... a glorified T1 unit :lol: :lol: :lol:

    The only reason the AI can't cope with them, is because the AI is too dumb to realize what's happening. Closest thing to "coping" it can do, is probably the fact that the AI loves to enchant random t1 units garrisoning a t1 town somewhere in the underground that nobody cares about. :lol:

    In AOW terms, its a weakness equivalent to the Aliens from Signs. You know, the ones that were weak to water. :lol:

    Oh noes a single swordman with a weapon enchantment, my one true weakness!

    Like the world's lamest Nazgul ever.

    And then they nerfed it in AOW2, making it kinda... huh, whatever. Even through everyone and his mother in 2/SM has a magical attack now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  19. Circuit Self-Ejected

    Self-Ejected
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,311
    But investing in magic in AoW1 is a suicide, melee killing machines is the only way to build ur leader and heroes. U only need stun lightning spell and heal to restore between battles. All other points go into defence + stun and freeze on hit
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    9,236
    I'm 99% sure that doesn't work, I've had a single wraith kill 3 stacks of enchanted units on the last map of the campaign.
     
    • FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS x 2
    ^ Top  
  21. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    12,553
    So reading the feedback it seems Planetfall is the same deal as AoW3 - weak at launch but likely to be great in 2 years with 10 balance patches and 3 expansions?
     
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    15,653
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Where did you read such feedback? Dudes are still talking fantasy AoW here.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,871,585
    Location:
    Belém do Pará
    Da fuck? Wraiths' stats are pretty vanilla T1 otherwise.

    Whatever these enchanted units were enchanted by, it sure wans't Enchanted Weapon.

    Look at its stats:

    No Medal
    [​IMG] 4 [​IMG] 3
    [​IMG] 2 [​IMG] 4
    [​IMG] 26 [​IMG] 6
    Cold Immunity, Death Immunity, Death Strike, Fearless, Fire Immunity, Life Stealing, Lightning Protection, Pass Wall, Physical Immunity, Poison Immunity, Regeneration, Strike, Walking

    With no physical immunity, its just an average t1 infantry unit with one extra HP pont, Death Strike, Life Stealing and a boatload of immunities. Life-Stealing + Death Strike does it make superior to the average t1, but otherwise pretty meh.
     
    ^ Top  
  24. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    9,236
    I thought they would shred it as well, but they didn't. Maybe they weren't enchanted with Enchant Weapon, but they were all sparkly and shit and I *thought* I checked their enchantments beforehand. Only units with default magic attacks (like Astras) can consistently kill it.
     
    • FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. visions Arcane

    visions
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,636
    Location:
    here
    Sounds highly dubious. Maybe they were enchanted with Stone Skin? Maybe they were blessed with Nature's Blessing or something similar from some magical location? Seems probable if they were all enchanted. The AI does enchant its units a lot but all units in three stacks seems more than usual.

    I've been replaying the AoW campaigns in a row this year and I'm sure as hell that when I cast Enchant Weapon when facing wraiths, they die like flies.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)