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All I wanted

Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
1,256
Location
Chicago. And damn anyone who is not the same.
Thank you god. My prayers have been answered. Thank you Jesus! A historical RPG!
I think for whatever reason this is a sign from God or, possibly Saint Proverbius to shut me up on my constant complaints about the lack of historical RPGs. Thank you!
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
331
Location
Shanghai
For me as a RPG author, it'd be interesting to know if (many/some/very few?) people really specifically want historical RPGs, or just RPGs in general, regardless of whether these are historically authentic or fantasy.
After all, in Teudogar, almost everything you see or hear about is truly corresponding to historical facts: That level of authenticity requires about 10 to 20 times as much work as a fantasy game, where I can tweak game world and plot according to my technical needs, where I needn't research any facts or put in extra work to make plot, characters and game world locations realistic/authentic/plausible. If people are equally (or even more) happy with a fantasy game, all of that extra work would be a waste of time.
So what's your opinion? Do you like/dislike a historical setting? Do you value/prefer/don't care about authenticity and true facts? Or do you consider fantasy equally good, or even better?
 

Anonymous

Guest
I really enjoy it being historically accurate but fantasies are also fun, but equally I appreciate the realism in that you need to eat and sleep. You can't fight nearly as well when your wounded, you can bleed to death ect. many things like this arent included in almost any rpgs I have played, maybe eating, sometimes a weird sleeping/fatigue rule. You maybe have implemented this simply because it was a historical rpg. Furthermore color choice is awesome, many rpgs have unrealistic brilliance, peasents wearing purple, blue buildings, this does a lot to set the mood, which I really like how you have done. The historical accuracy is really cool, and I think it was probably worth your time, but not neccesarily in sales, sadly most people dont really care whether or not its accurate, and think its extra fun to kill goblins while riding a gryphon. But obviously your not doing it purely for money, its because you enjoy it, so dont bend your knee completely to the public, keep making the rpg that you would want to play, and you'll do great.
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
331
Location
Shanghai
Judging from the commercial success of the Gladiator, Christ and Troy movies, as well as the recent Pompei novel, and a huge number of other novels set in different historical contexts, the general public in the Western world does seem to have some interest in history. But what's their motive? Escapism? Getting away from modernity with its omnipresence of technology, complicatedness, overregulation, anonymity and spiritual emptiness? If so, fantasy probably can fulfill that need equally well, or even better, than history, and the success of the Lord of the Rings or even Harry Potter may indicate this.

But maybe another motive is some sort of curiosity: Why do we live the way we do? How did our ancestors live? What lead to our societies, languages, lifestyles becoming the way they are? What has changed, what have we lost, what gained in comparison to previous epochs? If people felt that kind of interest, it would make a strong case for historical movies / novels / rpgs.

Personally, I'm fascinated by history. I enjoy the deepened understanding of every aspect of everyday life one gets from knowing how things developed. When walking down Cologne's Hohe Straße (the Roman city's Via Alta 2000 years ago), I find it fun to imagine how barbaric Teutons and Roman mercenaries have been walking down this very same street 2000 years ago. Or how life may have been under Roman, Frankish, Clerical, Republican, French, Prussian, Imperial German, Nazi, and Federal Republican rule, 1500, 1000, 500, 100 or just 50 years ago. I find it reassuring how little has changed over the centuries, as well as admirable how much has been accomplished.
Ok, today that street is nothing more than an average shopping street leading to the square with the cathedral - but knowing what it has been makes it special. The same goes for the the cathedral, where a huge golden shrine is said to contain the bones of the three holy oriental royal pilgrims who went to Bethlehem to witness the birth of Christ: Knowing the Teutonic belief in "Heil" (a person's good fortune, part of which will stay in objects he's touched, or even in his remains) makes it a lot easier to understand the belief in these relics' power. (These bones used to be a great source of income for the city, attracting tens of thousands of pilgrims over the centuries, who believed in their spiritual and healing powers.) Or even commonplace everyday behavior - e.g., when walking side by side with a woman, why would I (as a continental European) instinctively let her walk at my right side? That custom results from our Teutonic ancestors carrying their long swords at the left side of their belts, where they would have been a nuisance for everyone walking on that side. Or why is Protestant Berlin, in the Eastern part of Germany, such a different place from Catholic, Roman-founded Cologne? From mentality and gesticulation to family life and gender roles, many aspects of Cologne life remind me much more of Italy than Eastern Germany. I find it fascinating to notice how the former borders of the Roman Empire still coincide with a seperation of Catholic (former Roman territory) and Protestant (undefeated Teuton) areas within Europe, as well as Capitalist (formerly Roman) and Communist (never under Roman rule) areas - hundreds of years after the Roman empire's collapse.

On the other hand, I can also enjoy the relaxation I can get from fantasy games. Slaying goblins and hunting for treasures is a great way to forget all of one's worries, and the more phantastical the plot, the better. After all, one of the joys of playing a game is to overcome the boundaries of reality. So I think it's a worthy endeavor to create a good fantasy game (and I'm trying to do so with DARGHUL).

In the end, certainly both genres have their fans; but judging from the feedback I've received regarding Teudogar (most of that positive, but while lots of people commented on gameplay, very few said anything about plot and historical setting), I suppose the setting is less important to most people than the overall gaming qualities. So as an author, I think it's my duty to focus more on these in the future, and my new fantasy RPG DARGHUL's huge game world and countless treasures and magical objects etc ought to be a good step into that direction...
 

NuZZ

Novice
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
12
Ide go for history, becuase its allllll based around a fact, and I can play and live what happened in past tens, err, Ive allways loved rome, and swords, and how we have evolved. Modern day guns etc boor me.
 

Anonymous

Guest
I also am fascinated by history, yet these movies you have mentioned in whole were generally pretty accurate were not completly accurate, Gladiators were not war slaves, they were free men, not usually dieing, the passion of the Christ was much more accurate but, for example the raven and the snake were added in,(I havent seen Troy) it seems history isnt enough for the masses, people generally like accurate bases, with features added in that arent neccesarily accurate, whether it be "reality" TV or "historical" movies, but again I am glad you did, although 90% of the shows on television are fictional there is that 10% that is factual. But then a game could never be totaly accurate, without removing the freedom of choice, therefore installing the bit of fantasy it seems is required. Its funny you mention Lord of the Rings, although obviously a fantasy movie, in many ways its much like a sci fi in that many aspects were very realistic, just because it's a fantasy doesnt mean they can have plastic swords.

And as to the motive, I find far more escapism in mmorpgs. People commonly play these games 10-20 hours a day. Regular rpgs tend to be more entertainment. The difference being mmorpgs can offer are almost a seperate life, an entirely seperate group of friends, job, setting, sometimes even families. While rpgs could never be as interactive, and are more of a combination of a book and movie, with a set storyline, tend to offer entertainment more than an escape from reality.

Previous companies have come to the same conclusion, people like to learn how their ancestors lived, about societies, languages, lifestyles and such, but a different approach was taken, in one instance, Chrono Trigger, probably my favorite rpg shows this, but it's still a fantasy, you travel through the different "epochs" and talk to the people depicting the authors beliefs about society as it changes through time. In this, the curiosity is fulfilled while also adding to the appeasement, or perhaps, amusement would be a better word. "a" meaning without and "muse", intellectual stimulation or thinking.

But dont get me wrong, I really enjoy that you are doing this, its why i have decided to buy a copy and support your productions. I have grown up playing games like Civilization which give insight into historical, technological and political advandces throughout the ages. And when watching television, Discovery or the History channel or the more recent Science Channel, but these, repeat their shows sometimes 2-3 times throughout the day, and Discovery isnt even the same channel anymore, rarely do you see an actual informational program on, I dont know how European tv is, though I expect something like the same.

I also am fascinated by how different but the same the lives were, how so many though were far more ignorant were also far more intellegent. I find it funny how even our history books betray us, telling us that the Italians in the 17th century didnt know the world was round, yet long before christ, the diameter was measured, we are led to believe the greeks came down from a mountain after the seapeoples raid of the known world, and found iron thus beginning the iron age, though it was used before the great flood. It is beat into our brain that life has existed for at least 1 billion years, the building of sediment layers in which these fosslis are found is thought to have taken thousands of years to have formed yet, mt. st. helens created many layers, in just a few seconds that are identical to these, infact, one tree was found to go through many of these layers, a ravine was created like that of which Darwin saw and discovered that a trickle of water slowly carried away sediment to create it over thousands of years. If the world truly desired accuracy, these would be headlines.

In any case, the aspect should become more apparent when Darghul is released. 2 games running under what I assume is the same engine, and also with again I assume the same graphical artist, the major difference will be fact and fiction. And judging from your description, Darghul will be more open, as far as free to travel and explore.
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
331
Location
Shanghai
Hi AdamP, that's a good point. People like historical settings, but they apparently like them even better if these are somewhat tweaked according to present-day taste and prejudices. There needs to be something you can really relate to and feel at home with, especially regarding mentality and ethics. It's probably no accident that almost all historical movies depict their heros feeling, judging and acting like modern-day Americans, in a historical setting, true, but still in full possession of their modern-day American mentality, ethics, and way of feeling.

It's probably similar with RPGs. People familiar with the Roman world may immediately feel at home and be able to identify with a setting from that epoch. But everyone who isn't may feel the way I feel when e.g. reading Egyptian literature, or Confucius' writings, or the Koran - all of these fascinating pieces of literature, but so far removed from my own way of feeling and thinking that even though I feel fascination, I still can't relate to them emotionally, at least not at first, the way I could to a less culturally foreign piece of work. It takes some time to become acquainted and finally familiar with a totally different way of feeling and thinking. Of course if one does so, the result can be very rewarding. But I think it's natural and fair if many people prefer more immediately accessible enjoyment. Movie makers and computer game authors probably ought to take that into account.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
Sure, you do now, but once you see through his clever web of lies you will understand the true horror. Then you will wish you had never crossed paths with that monster.
 

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