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Ambush Feat is useless

Discussion in 'Underrail' started by toro, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. toro Arcane

    toro
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    I'm playing a sniper build and for some retarded reason I decided to acquire the Ambush feat.

    Well, I think this feat is retarded cause in 10+ hours (maybe more) the Ambush combat text appeared exactly ONCE!! That's the natural occurrence pattern for this feat usage ... which means that it's absolutely useless.

    Now, I know that I can trigger it with Flares but (1) it's inconsistent, (2) I don't want to carry a bunch of Flares and (3) it breaks combat fluidity for some builds (who the hell wants to throw a flare in order to trigger a feat!?).

    I reached lvl 10 and this feat is driving me crazy. It probably ruined my build while I'm pretty happy with everything else.
     
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  2. hilfazer Learned

    hilfazer
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    Ambush is a very polar feat - when it does not work it's literally useless but when it does it's very good.
    The problem with Ambush is that game does not tell you where will it trigger. For now you need to watch your chance to hit.

    Keep an eye on burning barrels surrounded by human enemies, you should get Ambush on them easily.
    But since you don't want to throw stuff at your opponents Ambush may not do you much good. Or maybe you're ok with throwing molotovs? They deal damage and enable Ambush better.
     
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  3. Black Angel Savant

    Black Angel
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    Yeah, molotovs are the way to go. Or if you're Psi-Sniper hybrid, setting someone on fire with Pyrokinesis works as well. My first playthrough was a Psi-Sniper hybrid, took Ambush feat and relied a lot on setting someone on fire to trigger Ambush most of the time.
     
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  4. toro Arcane

    toro
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    My issue is that I did not invest one single point in throwing but whatever.

    Thanks for the answers. I calmed the fuck down and I will try to use Molotovs.
     
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  5. Stavrophore Learned

    Stavrophore
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    Just place some bear traps, open with molotov, and watch everything melt,as it take more dmg from opportunist/ambush combo.
     
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  6. Poos Arcane

    Poos
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    10+ hours?

    phew son, you've got hundreds of hours to go

    come back when you have a decent control sample
     
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  7. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Chill. I got 200+ hours in the game. I already finished the game or reached DC like 3 or 4 times. This is just another run.

    And yeah, I was retarded. Ambush alone sucks but Ambush + Molotovs is great. I would say that an Assault Rifle build + Molotovs + Ambush is very viable if not OP.

    Anyway I somewhat ruined my build taking the Doctor feat but whatever :) Each run I have to take at least one retarded feat. Cannot help myself.
     
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  8. Black Angel Savant

    Black Angel
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    Holy... I was under an impression that Ambush would only really work with Sniper build, considering you need high Stealth to truly gets its full benefit, and maybe a stealthy gunslinger or spec-ops build or something, but.... damn, this opens up a whole new possibility!
     
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  9. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Fist Ambush is from Aim Shoot and the rest are from H&K MP5 SMG ;)

    I cannot use AR atm but according to the description above that should not be a problem: if SMGs work then ARs work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  10. Spark Mandriller Scholar

    Spark Mandriller
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    If you really want a ridiculous crit build then you should try energy pistols. Circular Wave Amplifier gets you a massive critical damage bonus, so after Critical Power you end up doing like 600% damage with crits. It's crazy.
     
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  11. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Does anyone know if Ambush works with NV goggles? Probably not but would be cool if it did imho.
     
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  12. hilfazer Learned

    hilfazer
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    NV does not enable Ambush but you can turn it on when enemy is already illuminated and still benefit from Ambush.
     
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  13. Stavrophore Learned

    Stavrophore
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    That would be totally OP.
     
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  14. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    But logical.
     
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  15. Black Angel Savant

    Black Angel
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    Eh, logically it wouldn't trigger Ambush, since the feat work on enemies 'illuminated' while your character is positioned in a darkened areas with no lights on you, basically depending on the disparity caused by the existence of a light source. What night vision goggles do is not only allows you to see a target in the dark, it also allows you to see the environment by making everything else having the same amount of illumination on them, so no disparity there. I'm sure Styg and co can explain better. In fact, here's an image made by epeli from this thread to sum up of how it works:
    [​IMG]
    It was from 2014, though, and I vaguely remembered from my own experiences that I managed to proc Ambush on target illuminated by only 'some light'. Still, it should give you the idea that NV won't proc, since it doesn't provide disparity on a target but an even illumination to also surrounding areas.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  16. Tygrende Learned

    Tygrende
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    lol

    I would say it's one of the more impactful feats in the game, depending on your build. Definitely for crit-reliant builds, like ones using sniper rifles, plasma pistols, etc. Especially now since dynamic lights are no longer bugged. It's very situational, sure, but when it works, it can be an absolute game changer.

    Once your effective stealth is high enough to reach 100% crit chance, it's basically free Aimed Shots with no cooldown (but no smart bonus either). Ignoring half the evasion usually translates into about 10% more precision, which is a nice bonus as well.

    It's also one of the more engaging feats since it introduces an entriely new mechanic that relies solely on enviromental factor.

    That's not my experience with it. It is a bit less useful early on since you are very far from having 100% crit chance at that point, but it can trigger against any enemy standing close enough to a sufficiently strong light source, like a lamp, fire barrel or even a mindshroom. Lamps with static light are by far the most reliable, fire barrels and mindshrooms might require an additional light source somewhere nearby. I usually pick it up a bit later.

    Situations where enemies are standing next to a lamp/barrel/mnidshroom are common enough. Some of the more memorable fights where I used Ambush to great effect include (but are not limited to):

    • Lurker base (specifically the lurkers around the dog pit)
    • Gangsters in a room next to the Core City warehouse (lamp outside the room)
    • Arena (the entire map is strongly illuminated, except the corners that have no illumination)
    • Lunatic Ripper and nearby lunatics at the Utility Station
    • Faceless at Tartarus and gaunts/patrols once you power the warehouses

    The much more reliable way to trigger Ambush is to use molotovs, but you know that already. But it can be very useful even if you don't go out of your way illuminate the enemies yourself.
     
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  17. toro Arcane

    toro
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    I know. Read the rest of the posts.
     
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  18. Tygrende Learned

    Tygrende
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    The last thing I saw was

    But I don't agree with that either. It's decent even if you utilize the environmental illumination only.
     
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  19. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Maybe. But it did not work for me although there are many situations in which it works.
     
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  20. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    You misunderstood me. I was talking about it in general and it would absolutely make sense that Ambush works with NV goggles. I am aware of the mechanics so no need to explain it to me.
     
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  21. oneself Prophet Shitposter

    oneself
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    I could swear that night vision goggles gave illumination and thus ambush.

    If not, ambush is definitely situational.
     
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  22. Stavrophore Learned

    Stavrophore
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    Ambush could benefit if flares added one or two tiles more of illumination that count for trigger. As of right now, you have to throw the flare at the feet of the enemy, he has to directly stand on it[or just next to it? dont remember exactly]. That's kind of hard to achieve with low to medium throwing. Well you can savescum,but it would still be a longer process until you throw it at the exact spot.
     
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  23. epeli Prophet

    epeli
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    Has anyone tried how ambush behaves with dynamic lights in 1.0.3? hilfazer does it work consistently around oscillating lights like burning barrels?

    (Prior to Styg fixing some dynamic light glitches in 1.0.3, you could easily trigger bugged ambush from the flash of explosions earlier on your turn and saving/loading altered its behavior around oscillating lights.)
     
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  24. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    I think it could work with Force Field or other PSI effects which illuminate the area to some degree. I always see my hit chance going up when I use them near an enemy.
     
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  25. hilfazer Learned

    hilfazer
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    No. In some cases CTH will be changing between two values, say 71% and 79%, even in turn based mode because light is just so fast. Depending on when you click you'll get Ambush or not.
     
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