Bad experiences trying old or nostalgic games?

[Master]

Its not that old but Hitman Codename 47 and the jungle mission, with the drug lord. I just cant pass this mission, and cant imagine how i ever did.

 

[Silentstorm]

Hmm, has anyone mentioned JRPG's or console games yet?

Then again, i guess this is a PC/Computer gamers place so maybe not that suprising, i am also coming with a blank of something that isn't obvious like the original Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games having been surpassed by further entries in the series and their remakes at this point.

 

[ZeniBot]

I just played Wolf3d. I have never hated hit scans more in my life LOL.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Another World fucking sucks.

See intro, die.

See intro, Walk 2 steps, die.

See intro, Walk 2 steps, one more step, a leech with a massive tooth. die

See intro, Walk 2 steps, one more step, a leech with a massive tooth. Pass it. 2 steps later, rock drops on your head. Die

See intro, Walk 2 steps, one more step, a leech with a massive tooth. Pass it. 2 steps later, rock drops on your head. Dodge it. Walk 2 steps, something eats you.

See intro, Walk 2 steps, one more step, a leech with a massive tooth. Pass it. 2 steps later, rock drops on your head. Dodge it. Walk 2 steps, something tries to eat you but you cleverly dodge. 2 steps later something else eats you.

Wow. much fun. innovation.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I just played Wolf3d. I have never hated hit scans more in my life LOL.

Meanwhile, 40 miles away:

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

Morrowind was kind of interesting but a boring dissapointment. I don't like the TES series. I might have to try Daggerfall.

The first few Ultima are just too old for me. I played Ultima Online back in the day, but anything before that type of graphic or UU is just too punishing for me.

I know someone earlier mentionned Dark Sun. I actually liked them, but they were so bug-ridden that my saves were corrupted and fucked so I had to stop. Sad day.

 

[Silentstorm]

Yeah, but Doom aged up better, more variety in weapons, levels with more variety and easier to navigate, more variety in enemies and a cool setting, the first two games are still pretty damn awesome.

Certainly better than Wolf3D, still, i will admit, hitscanners are by far the worst thing about old FPS games.

Another World fucking sucks.
Wow. much fun. innovation.

Oh, i tend to forget that game exists, i remember looking at it when i was younger and i knew about it's reputation, but once i finally played it, i just left not remembering much about the game, it's a game that very much asks you to memorize everything in order to suceed.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Tried to play several versions of the old 2D Prince of Falldamagia games. Can't.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Another World indeed felt more like a demonstration of what a cinematic game can be like than that it is really an enjoyable game experience.
I was never a fan of these more slow paced action-adventure type of games or slow platformers like the original Prince of Persia or Flashback. I did like Blackthorne though because of its atmosphere.

Also no fan of the original Wolfenstein 3D or any of the fan map packs made for it. A couple of the Doom conversions are okay such as the upcoming Blade of Agony.
I don't know what think about the original Doom games to be honest, I really tried to get back into Doom 1, 2, and Doom 64 but I just can't. I much rather play total conversions on Doom engine modifications such Ashes 2063.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Tried to play several versions of the old 2D Prince of Falldamagia games. Can't.

It's the exact opposite for me: I have no urge or desire to play the newer '3D' Prince of Persia games.

Oh, and Another World is just a step up from the old LaserDisc games like Dragon's Lair and Space Ace, which themselves are QTE games. Another World cleverly hides the fact that you're just waiting for the right prompt to hit the AwesomeButton.

 

[Silentstorm]

But Prince Of Persia 3D is so good...okay, no, but i don't mind the Sands Of Time games.

And yeah, Another World is one of those games that i feel was big because it was so amazing to look at, it was really cinematic and different from many games, and it's the reason why it's still so beloved today, but as a game, well, it's not that fun nor is the story that amazing sadly.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Diggers

 

[Silentstorm]

Diggers, wait you mean the Mr.Do clone on PC?

That was...fine for the time though it's not that great a score-chasing game anymore, then again, i was never the biggest fan of Mr.Do either so i am a bit biased against any clone of it, but i recall it was called Digger instead of Diggers.

Screw it, Google Searching this and...huh, how the hell did i not know about this Lemming clone, and it had more than one game!?

Looking at screenshots, it feels like a more generic Lemmings, just some dwarves that aren't as fun as the green haired lemmings, though the backgrounds look a lot better.

 

[visions]

I just played Wolf3d. I have never hated hit scans more in my life LOL.

I tried replaying Wolf 3D a few years ago. My OCD compelled me to try to find all secrets which meant having to run through all of the levels while hugging all the walls. That was annoying af and made me abandon the game. Next time I try it, I'm gonna say screw the secrets.

 

[ZeniBot]

I tried replaying Wolf 3D a few years ago. My OCD compelled me to try to find all secrets which meant having to run through all of the levels while hugging all the walls. That was annoying af and made me abandon the game. Next time I try it, I'm gonna say screw the secrets.

Yeah the level design in wolf3d was horrendous. The only reason Wolf3d was even successful was because it was the first ever full 256 colour Raycast engine, there wasn't anything like that on the market and most importantly there was nothing like it that would run on a 386. (referring specifically to a lot of the 3D games that were in the arcades at the time)

 

[visions]

I kinda like the big maze like levels. But the fact that the secrets are often not telegraphed in any manner and finding them is either completely random or achievable only by hugging all of the walls is annoying.

 

[FeelTheRads]

It's pretty autistic to try to get all secrets in Wolf3D.
Occasionally I did some wall hugging, but mostly just tried the most obvious spots... Hitler portraits or some lone alcove or something.

Anyway, the stuff they had to work with in terms of level design was very basic so I'm guessing it was not really possible to make them more "telegraphed" than that without handing them directly to you.

 

[Silentstorm]

To be fair, i don't think the levels were designed with secrets in mind, Tom Hall and John Romero were pushing for secrets up till close to the release date but John Carmack refused because it would be too difficult, even though the other two thought it would make the game more fun and give more depth to the levels.

And unknown to them, John Carmack was planning a suprise and made secrets across all levels, now, Carmack is a programming genius, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is the best at game design, and he did those by himself and when he told the rest of the team that he did put secrets in like they asked, they couldn't do much to change them.

What resulted was one guy putting secrets in levels that weren't designed for them in mind, the rest of the team was making the levels and making them look very samey throughout each map because...well, John Carmack said that secrets would be too hard to do and refused them, it wasn't until later that he revealed he had found a way to make walls shift and that he made and hid several areas.

I mean, it did apparently leave enough time to make secret levels or change some things to make some contests based on secrets, but they didn't have enough time to change the levels or pick better secret spots than the ones Carmack picked, it also seems that many maps were done in one or two days thanks to an easy editor and thus they would just quickly make maps and not really think about them.

It's probably why each level is so maze-like(aside from the obvious Pac-Man inspiration since Id loved Pac-Man enough to make a secret level based on the game) and had so little features allowing one to know where they are the first time they are playing, don't get me wrong, Wolf3D is a very important game in the history of FPS games, but that doesn't mean it aged perfectly or that the developer spent weeks debating and making each level and secret.

 

[Melan]

I don't think I could go back to the ZX-Spectrum, as much as I loved it. I still play the occasional Lords of Midnight campaign (and get my ass kicked, mostly :D), but that's on the modern remakes because the original control scheme and draw delay are just too much.

Generally, I find pre-1990s PC games mostly inaccessible, including a whole lot of good text adventures. It is not simply about UI issues, but the damn obscurity and "guess my mind" puzzles which crop up in them. Playing with the solution in hand is just not the real thing, either.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I tried replaying Wolf 3D a few years ago. My OCD compelled me to try to find all secrets which meant having to run through all of the levels while hugging all the walls. That was annoying af and made me abandon the game. Next time I try it, I'm gonna say screw the secrets.

This is the map for E2M8 of Wolfenstein 3D:

See all those squares on the left? Those are secrets. Every last one of them.

(See the URL for the link? That's a Tripod site.)

The gimmick for that level is that somewhere in that maze of secrets there's a special wall that says "Call Apogee. Say AARDWOLF" and if you'd do that you'd get a prize. Unfortunately the game's asseets were all laid bare by editors long before anyone actually ever found the secret by normal means, so iD had to scrap that little contest.

EDIT: Typo.

 

[Melan]

I remember trying to spend three hours trying to get through the maze and get a perfect score. You fuckers.

 

[Silentstorm]

Wolfeinstein 3D was apparently a rushed game or one that Id didn't think as much about while making as one would hope, the levels were made in one or two days, secrets were a last minute addition put by John Carmack around all the levels, and editors didn't have enough time to prepare for contests and just left things in.

At the same time, though, it does explain a lot about the level design of the games, some people say they have no problem with the levels in Wolfeinstein 3D, that it's easy to know where you are, but i say those people grew up playing the game for the most part.

Again, it's an important game in the history of video games, no doubt about that, and better than quite a few clones at the time but Doom essentially did everything better, and other FPS games as well, being the first(or one of the first) doesn't always mean being the best.

 

[Melan]

Wolfenstein wasn't even the first with that tech - it is pretty smooth and refined compared to Carmack's Catacomb 3D family of games. Those were rough (and if I recall correctly, much harder than Wolf3D).

 

[Cyberarmy]

Diggers, wait you mean the Mr.Do clone on PC?

Diggers was a mining and trading game. Controls was a bit Lemmings like so that was the part I hated and still hate. Clumsy mess most of the time but damn I love that game.

 

[ZeniBot]

Wolfenstein wasn't even the first with that tech - it is pretty smooth and refined compared to Carmack's Catacomb 3D family of games. Those were rough (and if I recall correctly, much harder than Wolf3D).

Yeah remember though I said Wolf3d was the first FPS to use 256 colours in VGA. Most of his earlier stuff he did for Apogee used EGA 16 colours. They didn't have the same visual impact.
I remember Wolf3d being one of my first experiences with VGA and it being a pretty big deal that suddenly the colour palettes were more closer to what we were seeing from game consoles and arcades.
I want to be clear that Wolf3d is still a very cool game but it has aged about as well as you could imagine, but its also obvious to me that the game was a bit rough around the edges when compared to what they pulled off with Doom 1 (which has similar issues in the full version- obviously they put a damn LOT of effort into the shareware version which is why Episode 1 plays so damn well).