Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Bad experiences trying old or nostalgic games?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Silentstorm, May 13, 2019.

  1. Silentstorm Educated

    Silentstorm
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    Messages:
    173
    Dunno, but yeah, many Spectrum games had bad to no music, a sharp contrast to it's rival Commodore 64, which, while having a darker palette and generally not being able to make as many great sprites and the like, had much better sound capabilities and a bunch of great musicians working on it, seriously, the C64 music still kicks ass.

    Just saying, i think Spectrum is only used for music in that they are put in homebrew games nowadays, the Commodore 64's SID chip is still used nowadays by some people, the band Machinae Supremacy, for example, uses the SID chip in their songs.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Master Arbiter

    Master
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,000
    Its not that old but Hitman Codename 47 and the jungle mission, with the drug lord. I just cant pass this mission, and cant imagine how i ever did.
     
    • Despair Despair x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Silentstorm Educated

    Silentstorm
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    Messages:
    173
    Hmm, has anyone mentioned JRPG's or console games yet?

    Then again, i guess this is a PC/Computer gamers place so maybe not that suprising, i am also coming with a blank of something that isn't obvious like the original Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games having been surpassed by further entries in the series and their remakes at this point.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. ZeniBot Savant

    ZeniBot
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    394
    Location:
    Todd Howard's Sex Dungeon - Send Help
    I just played Wolf3d. I have never hated hit scans more in my life LOL.
     
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Zarniwoop Destiny Cleanser Patron

    Zarniwoop
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    10,718
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Another World fucking sucks.

    See intro, die.

    See intro, Walk 2 steps, die.

    See intro, Walk 2 steps, one more step, a leech with a massive tooth. die

    See intro, Walk 2 steps, one more step, a leech with a massive tooth. Pass it. 2 steps later, rock drops on your head. Die

    See intro, Walk 2 steps, one more step, a leech with a massive tooth. Pass it. 2 steps later, rock drops on your head. Dodge it. Walk 2 steps, something eats you.

    See intro, Walk 2 steps, one more step, a leech with a massive tooth. Pass it. 2 steps later, rock drops on your head. Dodge it. Walk 2 steps, something tries to eat you but you cleverly dodge. 2 steps later something else eats you.

    Wow. much fun. innovation.
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
    • not sure if serious not sure if serious x 1
    • incline incline x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    17,785
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Meanwhile, 40 miles away:

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Rage Rage x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Stormcrowfleet Cipher

    Stormcrowfleet
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    494
    Morrowind was kind of interesting but a boring dissapointment. I don't like the TES series. I might have to try Daggerfall.

    The first few Ultima are just too old for me. I played Ultima Online back in the day, but anything before that type of graphic or UU is just too punishing for me.

    I know someone earlier mentionned Dark Sun. I actually liked them, but they were so bug-ridden that my saves were corrupted and fucked so I had to stop. Sad day.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. Silentstorm Educated

    Silentstorm
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    Messages:
    173
    Yeah, but Doom aged up better, more variety in weapons, levels with more variety and easier to navigate, more variety in enemies and a cool setting, the first two games are still pretty damn awesome.

    Certainly better than Wolf3D, still, i will admit, hitscanners are by far the worst thing about old FPS games.
    Oh, i tend to forget that game exists, i remember looking at it when i was younger and i knew about it's reputation, but once i finally played it, i just left not remembering much about the game, it's a game that very much asks you to memorize everything in order to suceed.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,867,847
    Location:
    Castelo da tia VĂ¢nia
    Tried to play several versions of the old 2D Prince of Falldamagia games. Can't.
     
    • Despair Despair x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. The Dutch Ghost Learned

    The Dutch Ghost
    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    275
    Another World indeed felt more like a demonstration of what a cinematic game can be like than that it is really an enjoyable game experience.
    I was never a fan of these more slow paced action-adventure type of games or slow platformers like the original Prince of Persia or Flashback. I did like Blackthorne though because of its atmosphere.

    Also no fan of the original Wolfenstein 3D or any of the fan map packs made for it. A couple of the Doom conversions are okay such as the upcoming Blade of Agony.
    I don't know what think about the original Doom games to be honest, I really tried to get back into Doom 1, 2, and Doom 64 but I just can't. I much rather play total conversions on Doom engine modifications such Ashes 2063.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    17,785
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    It's the exact opposite for me: I have no urge or desire to play the newer '3D' Prince of Persia games.

    Oh, and Another World is just a step up from the old LaserDisc games like Dragon's Lair and Space Ace, which themselves are QTE games. Another World cleverly hides the fact that you're just waiting for the right prompt to hit the AwesomeButton.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. Silentstorm Educated

    Silentstorm
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    Messages:
    173
    But Prince Of Persia 3D is so good...okay, no, but i don't mind the Sands Of Time games.

    And yeah, Another World is one of those games that i feel was big because it was so amazing to look at, it was really cinematic and different from many games, and it's the reason why it's still so beloved today, but as a game, well, it's not that fun nor is the story that amazing sadly.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Cyberarmy Love fool Patron

    Cyberarmy
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,332
    Location:
    Smyrna - Scalanouva
    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Diggers
    :negative:
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Silentstorm Educated

    Silentstorm
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    Messages:
    173
    Diggers, wait you mean the Mr.Do clone on PC?

    That was...fine for the time though it's not that great a score-chasing game anymore, then again, i was never the biggest fan of Mr.Do either so i am a bit biased against any clone of it, but i recall it was called Digger instead of Diggers.

    Screw it, Google Searching this and...huh, how the hell did i not know about this Lemming clone, and it had more than one game!?

    Looking at screenshots, it feels like a more generic Lemmings, just some dwarves that aren't as fun as the green haired lemmings, though the backgrounds look a lot better.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. visions Arcane

    visions
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    here
    I tried replaying Wolf 3D a few years ago. My OCD compelled me to try to find all secrets which meant having to run through all of the levels while hugging all the walls. That was annoying af and made me abandon the game. Next time I try it, I'm gonna say screw the secrets.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • (autism) (autism) x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. ZeniBot Savant

    ZeniBot
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    394
    Location:
    Todd Howard's Sex Dungeon - Send Help
    Yeah the level design in wolf3d was horrendous. The only reason Wolf3d was even successful was because it was the first ever full 256 colour Raycast engine, there wasn't anything like that on the market and most importantly there was nothing like it that would run on a 386. (referring specifically to a lot of the 3D games that were in the arcades at the time)
     
    • rolleyes rolleyes x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. visions Arcane

    visions
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    here
    I kinda like the big maze like levels. But the fact that the secrets are often not telegraphed in any manner and finding them is either completely random or achievable only by hugging all of the walls is annoying.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    12,413
    It's pretty autistic to try to get all secrets in Wolf3D.
    Occasionally I did some wall hugging, but mostly just tried the most obvious spots... Hitler portraits or some lone alcove or something.

    Anyway, the stuff they had to work with in terms of level design was very basic so I'm guessing it was not really possible to make them more "telegraphed" than that without handing them directly to you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    ^ Top  
  19. Silentstorm Educated

    Silentstorm
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    Messages:
    173
    To be fair, i don't think the levels were designed with secrets in mind, Tom Hall and John Romero were pushing for secrets up till close to the release date but John Carmack refused because it would be too difficult, even though the other two thought it would make the game more fun and give more depth to the levels.

    And unknown to them, John Carmack was planning a suprise and made secrets across all levels, now, Carmack is a programming genius, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is the best at game design, and he did those by himself and when he told the rest of the team that he did put secrets in like they asked, they couldn't do much to change them.

    What resulted was one guy putting secrets in levels that weren't designed for them in mind, the rest of the team was making the levels and making them look very samey throughout each map because...well, John Carmack said that secrets would be too hard to do and refused them, it wasn't until later that he revealed he had found a way to make walls shift and that he made and hid several areas.

    I mean, it did apparently leave enough time to make secret levels or change some things to make some contests based on secrets, but they didn't have enough time to change the levels or pick better secret spots than the ones Carmack picked, it also seems that many maps were done in one or two days thanks to an easy editor and thus they would just quickly make maps and not really think about them.

    It's probably why each level is so maze-like(aside from the obvious Pac-Man inspiration since Id loved Pac-Man enough to make a secret level based on the game) and had so little features allowing one to know where they are the first time they are playing, don't get me wrong, Wolf3D is a very important game in the history of FPS games, but that doesn't mean it aged perfectly or that the developer spent weeks debating and making each level and secret.
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. Melan Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Melan
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,088
    Location:
    Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I don't think I could go back to the ZX-Spectrum, as much as I loved it. I still play the occasional Lords of Midnight campaign (and get my ass kicked, mostly :D), but that's on the modern remakes because the original control scheme and draw delay are just too much. :negative:

    Generally, I find pre-1990s PC games mostly inaccessible, including a whole lot of good text adventures. It is not simply about UI issues, but the damn obscurity and "guess my mind" puzzles which crop up in them. Playing with the solution in hand is just not the real thing, either.
     
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    17,785
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    This is the map for E2M8 of Wolfenstein 3D:

    [​IMG]

    See all those squares on the left? Those are secrets. Every last one of them.

    (See the URL for the link? That's a Tripod site.)

    The gimmick for that level is that somewhere in that maze of secrets there's a special wall that says "Call Apogee. Say AARDWOLF" and if you'd do that you'd get a prize. Unfortunately the game's asseets were all laid bare by editors long before anyone actually ever found the secret by normal means, so iD had to scrap that little contest.

    EDIT: Typo.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019 at 2:04 PM
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • nice nice x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Melan Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Melan
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,088
    Location:
    Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I remember trying to spend three hours trying to get through the maze and get a perfect score. You fuckers. :argh:
     
    • Salute Salute x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Silentstorm Educated

    Silentstorm
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    Messages:
    173
    Wolfeinstein 3D was apparently a rushed game or one that Id didn't think as much about while making as one would hope, the levels were made in one or two days, secrets were a last minute addition put by John Carmack around all the levels, and editors didn't have enough time to prepare for contests and just left things in.

    At the same time, though, it does explain a lot about the level design of the games, some people say they have no problem with the levels in Wolfeinstein 3D, that it's easy to know where you are, but i say those people grew up playing the game for the most part.

    Again, it's an important game in the history of video games, no doubt about that, and better than quite a few clones at the time but Doom essentially did everything better, and other FPS games as well, being the first(or one of the first) doesn't always mean being the best.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Melan Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Melan
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,088
    Location:
    Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Wolfenstein wasn't even the first with that tech - it is pretty smooth and refined compared to Carmack's Catacomb 3D family of games. Those were rough (and if I recall correctly, much harder than Wolf3D).

    [​IMG]
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. Cyberarmy Love fool Patron

    Cyberarmy
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,332
    Location:
    Smyrna - Scalanouva
    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Diggers was a mining and trading game. Controls was a bit Lemmings like so that was the part I hated and still hate. Clumsy mess most of the time but damn I love that game.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)