Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate III by Larian Studios - it's turn-based and isometric, folks

rusty_shackleford · Mar 20, 2020

Corvinus said: ↑

-Dwarves are highly skilled miners, smiths and artisans and create amazing works of art (often in tremendous scale) that stand the test of time. With all due respect for the jewish goldsmiths out there, jews aren't known for building things or doing hard, pitiless labour under filthy conditions.
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Jewish craftsmen were extremely common. Ever heard of a Jewish farmer? They weren't allowed to own land for most of their existence in Europe.

Corvinus said: ↑

-Dwarves are not known for being actors, lawyers, doctors, merchants or grifters.
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…Dwarf clerics? Classic D&D class/race combo.

AwesomeButton · Mar 20, 2020

Corvinus said: ↑

If we take that seriously for a minute, I'd argue that even if similarities have been pointed out by some esteemed authors, both races are too different. Let's skip the real source of inspiration (the mythological creatures) too for the sake of discussion and focus on the stereotypes.
-Dwarves are obsessed with treasure, but only for hoarding it, not creating a merchant empire.
-Dwarves are highly skilled miners, smiths and artisans and create amazing works of art (often in tremendous scale) that stand the test of time. With all due respect for the jewish goldsmiths out there, jews aren't known for building things or doing hard, pitiless labour under filthy conditions.
-Dwarves put their skill points into drunken axe murder, not speech. They also fight their wars on their own and do not talk someone else into fighting so that they can profit from it.
-Dwarves remain dwarves even when living in the lands of men, just as jews remain jews, but while there, they provide their own upkeep and wouldn't pretend to be something that they are not.
-Dwarves are known for being stingy, just like jews, but they are also known for being honest to a fault - even if it would cause a violent conflict. Dwarven diplomats? I think not.
-Dwarves are not known for being actors, lawyers, doctors, merchants or grifters.
-Gnomes are often portrayed as a tamer, friendlier version of the dwarves with a focus on invention rather than crafting. Most of the above would still apply, though.

So is there really a similarity other than their love for riches? No.
Click to expand...

If dwarves are hoarders and gnomes are merchants, then they are a perfect match - dwarves supply credit, gnomes pay back interest.

Lacrymas · Mar 20, 2020

Slaver1 said: ↑

Still shook up about what Larian are going to do to the wonderfully preserved, embalmed carcass of the Baldurs Gate IP which was, until recently, siphoned away in a golden pyramid of glowing reminiscence for eternity.

First they belligerently broke into a sanctified place and pulled BG's mummified remains out of the tomb. Then they declared to the public at large they're going to resuscitate the corpse and it would all turn out wonderfully, conjuring visions of a fondly remembered past. Once their re-animation process yielded a monstrosity with tenuous links to its past glory they blithely ignored the shocked gasps from the crowd, declaring this mass of colorful writhing tendrils and rotting edifices spouting wacky lingo was an evolution of the greatness we thought we knew.

It's not too late for them to make significant changes and pay homage to the series they're building off, but as of right now their approach has been cynical as fuck.
Click to expand...

You are confusing BG3 and Larian with BG1/2:EE and Beamdog.

NJClaw · Mar 20, 2020

Slaver1 said: ↑

Still shook up about what Larian are going to do to the wonderfully preserved, embalmed carcass of the Baldurs Gate IP which was, until recently, siphoned away in a golden pyramid of glowing reminiscence for eternity.

First they belligerently broke into a sanctified place and pulled BG's mummified remains out of the tomb. Then they declared to the public at large they're going to resuscitate the corpse and it would all turn out wonderfully, conjuring visions of a fondly remembered past. Once their re-animation process yielded a monstrosity with tenuous links to its past glory they blithely ignored the shocked gasps from the crowd, declaring this mass of colorful writhing tendrils and rotting edifices spouting wacky lingo was an evolution of the greatness we thought we knew.

It's not too late for them to make significant changes and pay homage to the series they're building off, but as of right now their approach has been cynical as fuck.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, the wonderful golden pyramid of glowing reminiscence that is Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear.

User0001 · Mar 20, 2020

Fantasy race's cultural characteristics is an interesting topic. It's a given that it stems from the creator's stereotypical views of cultural groups. But what's interesting is what happens when you isolate these stereotypes into controlled fantasy entities in free environments aka books or PnP games. In the latter, you can even embrace it so much that you can play as these cultural aptitudes and stereotypes without risking your real personality acting in any real damaging way. There is a universal need to take control of what we all could have inside of us if only our personal life circumstances were different.

Slavoj Zizek explains this perfectly in Perverts Guide to Ideology, (there's no clip of it on youtube due to copyright so here is the transcript and the youtube timestamped clip of the concert that's shown in the movie)

The German hard rock band Rammstein are often accused of flirting, playing with the Nazi iconography. But if one observes closely their show, one can see very nicely what they are doing. Exemplarily in one of their best known songs ‘Reise Reise.’

The minimal elements of the Nazi ideology enacted by Rammstein are something like pure elements of libidinal investment. Enjoyment has to be, as it were, condensed in some minimal tics: gestures, which do not have any precise ideological meaning. What Rammstein does is it liberates these elements from their Nazi articulations. It allows us to enjoy them in their pre-ideological state.

The way to fight Nazism is to enjoy these elements, ridiculous as they may appear, by suspending the Nazi horizon of meaning. This way you undermine Nazism from within.

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This ironically exemplifies the dangers of "socially aware" currents that want to take away the rights from you to be a racist high elf, or hoarding and raping dwarf. We need it as an inner controlling mechanism.

Elex · Mar 20, 2020

If people want an idea of how 5e works solasta demo is back.

*-*/\--/\~ · Mar 20, 2020

Corvinus said: ↑

And now for something entirely different.

The Forgotten Realms, or Faerûn, is often held in contempt for being a completely unoriginal kitchen-sink setting where anything and everything has a place (races, creatures, et cetera). This not false, since it comes with being the "default" setting for D&D. However, the in the early Realms there were some interesting details which made it stand out. Such as the below:

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting said:

Like the elves the Dwarves are a people whose numbers have been dwindling. In their case the overall population has been declining since the days when the dragons controlled the lands of Cormyr, and the Sunrise Mountains still spouted flames and steam.
The reason for this decline is twofold: For ages lhe Dwarves have engaged in wars bordering on the genocidal, fighting against other races, such as orcs and goblins, who sought out the same caverns and mines the dwarves considered their homes. In those ancient days a live orc was competition both for treasure and for living space, and dwarven armies fought and died to protect and expand their realms. Unlike the goblin races, however, the Dwarves were slow to recover their losses, and in time their numbers have diminished so that in another millennium the Dwarf may join the Duergahydra in extinction in the Realms.

Click to expand...

and

FR11 Dwarves Deep said:

The Doom of the
Dwarves

The tragic secret of the dwarves is their low birthrate. Fear of clan extinction sometimes drives dwarves to raid human settlements for mates, or even to deal with slavers. The dwarves are usually in search of human women, because the low dwarven birthrate is thought to be due to low fertility among dwarven women. The offspring of a human and a dwarf is always dwarven enough to pass for a true dwarf (although it may be a foot taller than other dwarves). Any offspring it may in turn have with a dwarven mate will be fully dwarven, reverting to usual dwarven height. The taking of human mates is the secret salvation of the race referred to by some dwarven elders.

Click to expand...

When taking those quotes into consideration, and that the typical life span of a Dwarf is about 350 years (as could be seen in, for example, in PHBR6 The Complete book of Dwarves, 1991, page 8) it means that the northern, typical Dwarves which frequent the Baldur's Gate games will join the Dodo in three generations. There's also not a single Dwarven kingdom of note anywhere on the map (where most campaigns or games are likely to take place). It is not only the Dwarves themselves that die out, but their culture, too.
Consider that during your next play-through of the predecessors!

World-building such as this is what makes a true RPG, and should really be the focus of any new Baldurs Gate game - not if it will be possible to fuck an interdimensional alien up the arse.
Click to expand...

So Dwarves are essentially the pandas of Faerun.

Dwarvophile · Mar 20, 2020

*-*/\--/\~ said: ↑

Corvinus said: ↑

And now for something entirely different.

The Forgotten Realms, or Faerûn, is often held in contempt for being a completely unoriginal kitchen-sink setting where anything and everything has a place (races, creatures, et cetera). This not false, since it comes with being the "default" setting for D&D. However, the in the early Realms there were some interesting details which made it stand out. Such as the below:

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting said:

Like the elves the Dwarves are a people whose numbers have been dwindling. In their case the overall population has been declining since the days when the dragons controlled the lands of Cormyr, and the Sunrise Mountains still spouted flames and steam.
The reason for this decline is twofold: For ages lhe Dwarves have engaged in wars bordering on the genocidal, fighting against other races, such as orcs and goblins, who sought out the same caverns and mines the dwarves considered their homes. In those ancient days a live orc was competition both for treasure and for living space, and dwarven armies fought and died to protect and expand their realms. Unlike the goblin races, however, the Dwarves were slow to recover their losses, and in time their numbers have diminished so that in another millennium the Dwarf may join the Duergahydra in extinction in the Realms.

Click to expand...

and

FR11 Dwarves Deep said:

The Doom of the
Dwarves

The tragic secret of the dwarves is their low birthrate. Fear of clan extinction sometimes drives dwarves to raid human settlements for mates, or even to deal with slavers. The dwarves are usually in search of human women, because the low dwarven birthrate is thought to be due to low fertility among dwarven women. The offspring of a human and a dwarf is always dwarven enough to pass for a true dwarf (although it may be a foot taller than other dwarves). Any offspring it may in turn have with a dwarven mate will be fully dwarven, reverting to usual dwarven height. The taking of human mates is the secret salvation of the race referred to by some dwarven elders.

Click to expand...

When taking those quotes into consideration, and that the typical life span of a Dwarf is about 350 years (as could be seen in, for example, in PHBR6 The Complete book of Dwarves, 1991, page 8) it means that the northern, typical Dwarves which frequent the Baldur's Gate games will join the Dodo in three generations. There's also not a single Dwarven kingdom of note anywhere on the map (where most campaigns or games are likely to take place). It is not only the Dwarves themselves that die out, but their culture, too.
Consider that during your next play-through of the predecessors!

World-building such as this is what makes a true RPG, and should really be the focus of any new Baldurs Gate game - not if it will be possible to fuck an interdimensional alien up the arse.
Click to expand...

So Dwarves are essentially the pandas of Faerun.
Click to expand...

Mmmmh, time to put your glasses on :

Mikeal · Mar 20, 2020

Corvinus said: ↑

And now for something entirely different.

The Forgotten Realms, or Faerûn, is often held in contempt for being a completely unoriginal kitchen-sink setting where anything and everything has a place (races, creatures, et cetera). This not false, since it comes with being the "default" setting for D&D. However, the in the early Realms there were some interesting details which made it stand out. Such as the below:

and

When taking those quotes into consideration, and that the typical life span of a Dwarf is about 350 years (as could be seen in, for example, in PHBR6 The Complete book of Dwarves, 1991, page 8) it means that the northern, typical Dwarves which frequent the Baldur's Gate games will join the Dodo in three generations. There's also not a single Dwarven kingdom of note anywhere on the map (where most campaigns or games are likely to take place). It is not only the Dwarves themselves that die out, but their culture, too.
Consider that during your next play-through of the predecessors!

World-building such as this is what makes a true RPG, and should really be the focus of any new Baldurs Gate game - not if it will be possible to fuck an interdimensional alien up the arse.
Click to expand...

Lol declining dwarven population is straight up from Tolkien.

Slaver1 · Mar 20, 2020

Lacrymas said: ↑

Slaver1 said: ↑

Still shook up about what Larian are going to do to the wonderfully preserved, embalmed carcass of the Baldurs Gate IP which was, until recently, siphoned away in a golden pyramid of glowing reminiscence for eternity.

First they belligerently broke into a sanctified place and pulled BG's mummified remains out of the tomb. Then they declared to the public at large they're going to resuscitate the corpse and it would all turn out wonderfully, conjuring visions of a fondly remembered past. Once their re-animation process yielded a monstrosity with tenuous links to its past glory they blithely ignored the shocked gasps from the crowd, declaring this mass of colorful writhing tendrils and rotting edifices spouting wacky lingo was an evolution of the greatness we thought we knew.

It's not too late for them to make significant changes and pay homage to the series they're building off, but as of right now their approach has been cynical as fuck.
Click to expand...

You are confusing BG3 and Larian with BG1/2:EE and Beamdog.
Click to expand...

Beamdog committed a necrophiliac act at the Baldurs Gate tombstone and soiled the burial chamber but left no permanent damage the ravages of time won't fix. They are inconsequential.

Lacrymas · Mar 20, 2020

They did permanently made it so you can't buy BG1 or 2 digitally without taking part in their necrophilia, so BG3 has nothing on that.

NJClaw · Mar 20, 2020

Slaver1 said: ↑

Beamdog committed a necrophiliac act at the Baldurs Gate tombstone and soiled the burial chamber but left no permanent damage the ravages of time won't fix. They are inconsequential.
Click to expand...

Not only they force you to buy their edition if you want the original game, they also changed the ending cutscene of BG1. It's hard to find a way to do more permanent damage than changing the ending.

Stella Brando · Mar 20, 2020

DraQ · Mar 20, 2020

Corvinus said: ↑

If we take that seriously for a minute, I'd argue that even if similarities have been pointed out by some esteemed authors, both races are too different. Let's skip the real source of inspiration (the mythological creatures) too for the sake of discussion and focus on the stereotypes.
-Dwarves are obsessed with treasure, but only for hoarding it, not creating a merchant empire.
-Dwarves are highly skilled miners, smiths and artisans and create amazing works of art (often in tremendous scale) that stand the test of time. With all due respect for the jewish goldsmiths out there, jews aren't known for building things or doing hard, pitiless labour under filthy conditions.
-Dwarves put their skill points into drunken axe murder, not speech. They also fight their wars on their own and do not talk someone else into fighting so that they can profit from it.
-Dwarves remain dwarves even when living in the lands of men, just as jews remain jews, but while there, they provide their own upkeep and wouldn't pretend to be something that they are not.
-Dwarves are known for being stingy, just like jews, but they are also known for being honest to a fault - even if it would cause a violent conflict. Dwarven diplomats? I think not.
-Dwarves are not known for being actors, lawyers, doctors, merchants or grifters.
-Gnomes are often portrayed as a tamer, friendlier version of the dwarves with a focus on invention rather than crafting. Most of the above would still apply, though.

So is there really a similarity other than their love for riches? No.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows that dorfs are Mesopotamian.

Magnat · Mar 20, 2020

DraQ said: ↑

Everyone knows that dorfs are Mesopotamian.
Click to expand...

Amen.

Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler

Uncorrupted Dwarves are better off being Anglo-Saxon in their aesthetic though.

Riddler · Mar 20, 2020

NJClaw said: ↑

DeepOcean said: ↑

Cool, the dwarves are the germans of the Forgotten Realms setting.
Click to expand...

But wait, dwarves are the jews of fantasy settings, so...
Click to expand...

The German Jews.

Nano · Mar 20, 2020

NJClaw said: ↑

It's hard to find a way to do more permanent damage than changing the ending.
Click to expand...

...Except for the modders who restored it in short order.

Also the people whining about the original BG games not being available at online stores are wimps. The usual means of acquiring digital goods without paying for them are still there and easier to use than ever. And if you insist on buying something, then you can easily find physical BG DVD cases on eBay or whatever.

BarbequeMasta · Mar 20, 2020

When you have to compare Larian to Beamdog to make them look good, you prove that they suck.

fantadomat · Mar 20, 2020

BarbequeMasta said: ↑

When you have to compare Larian to Beamdog to make them look good, you prove that they suck.
Click to expand...

But beamcat are better than larian in everyway lol.

Elex · Mar 20, 2020

Nano said: ↑

NJClaw said: ↑

It's hard to find a way to do more permanent damage than changing the ending.
Click to expand...

...Except for the modders who restored it in short order.

Also the people whining about the original BG games not being available at online stores are wimps. The usual means of acquiring digital goods without paying for them are still there and easier to use than ever. And if you insist on buying something, then you can easily find physical BG DVD cases on eBay or whatever.
Click to expand...

you still have a DVD drive on your PC?

BarbequeMasta · Mar 20, 2020

fantadomat said: ↑

But beamcat are better than larian in everyway lol.
Click to expand...

Point is neither are exactly a high a bar.

Nano · Mar 20, 2020

Elex said: ↑

you still have a DVD drive on your PC?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Those things add pennies to the cost of your PC, assuming it's custom built (as it should be).

fantadomat · Mar 20, 2020

BarbequeMasta said: ↑

fantadomat said: ↑

But beamcat are better than larian in everyway lol.
Click to expand...

Point is neither are exactly a high a bar.
Click to expand...

Don't know mate,beampig is growing on me . Just taking a look around makes me appreciate the schemes and scams we had with beamfly.

rusty_shackleford · Mar 20, 2020

The baldur's gate worship is kind of funny considering it was shit on regularly here.

DraQ · Mar 20, 2020

fantadomat said: ↑

beamcat
Click to expand...

I now want to mod my cat with lazorz.

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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate III by Larian Studios - it's turn-based and isometric, folks

rusty_shackleford Arcane

AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities

Lacrymas Arcane

NJClaw Savant

User0001 Learned

Elex Arbiter

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Dwarvophile Learned

Mikeal Cipher

Slaver1 Novice

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Magnat Arcane

Riddler Prophet

Nano Arcane

BarbequeMasta Educated

fantadomat Dumbfuck!

Elex Arbiter

BarbequeMasta Educated

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fantadomat Dumbfuck!

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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate III by Larian Studios - it's turn-based and isometric, folks

rusty_shackleford Arcane

AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities

Lacrymas Arcane

NJClaw Savant

User0001 Learned

Elex Arbiter

*-*/\--/\~ Arbiter

Dwarvophile Learned

Mikeal Cipher

Slaver1 Novice

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Stella Brando Arcane

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Magnat Arcane

Riddler Prophet

Nano Arcane

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fantadomat Dumbfuck!

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