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KickStarter BATTLETECH - turn-based mech combat from Harebrained Schemes

Ibbz

Augur
Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Messages
499
EDIT: Finished the game. I enjoyed it, I don't regret the purchase, and I'm looking forward to expansion packs.

I've enjoyed the tactical combat as well and will probably look at any expansions / DLC. Unfortunately everything outside of that is below par - the story, the 'management' of the mercenary outfit, the general flow of the game - (What is up with constant cinematics showing the Argo moving between systems? the constant pauses swapping between menus? So much pointless wasted time)

The lead designer might be taking credit for the game, but the best thing about it is the combat which was based on a system that was invented 30+ years ago - the only compliment she deserves is that she didn't manage to fuck it up too badly. (Even then it could be easily improved.)
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
Is there a way to edit separately the repair and replace parts value for each mech? Or is it an universal value so if you edit it, it is applied to all mechs? One way to make light mechs more useful would be to raise the repair and replace costs individually for medium and heavy mechs.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,523
This is completely useless, since i can only bring 4 mechs on a mission, there's no reason to cripple myself and bring these lightest mechs. My lowest treshold for DMG is 80, below the mech is not worth the effort. Ive theory crafted a small sniper support mech with 4xAC/2 cannons, but i can't find any with 4 ballistic slots. There are medium that can pack 3 ballistics, but why would i bring them, when i can pack a mech with 3 SRMS and have high damage output, low heat, and with jumpjet i can close the distance easily?
That is a HBS problem, which I have stated in the post as not a concern of mine. They fucked up the rules and made lights useless. Lights are perfectly viable in REAL BTech.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,523
This game in this state, makes NU Xcom 1 and 2 masterpieces. The effects, the turn time and mechanics, my god. Its like 4 Indie Team first game. Ill probably have 10 times more fun playing the board game.

How can you praise this garbage? Its like the Dragon Age 2 of the Turn Based games...

The story, the horrible optimization for a crap turn based game (they blame Unity lol, if it was real time with more than 20 active objects on the scene, the GPUs will explode lol). And then top it all, all politics and sjw shit.

Dont buy even on -75%.
Some people have to preserve their rice bowl, as the Chinese would say. Or the English version: They know which side their bread is buttered. Hence the aggressive downvoting of anyone who dare criticise the game. You will note that it is always the same handful of people doing it to everyone, and it includes a mod.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,523
if you're compiling mods
specificalyl Assembly-CSharp ones
you're gonna need to specify whether it's made for the Steamworks or the GOG version
for whatever reason HBS went with having effectively two versions of the game to do steamworks integration, so guess what happens when you install an mod made for the steamworks version for a GOG copy :v

the mod situation is just getting better and better
Lol! Why do I expect something amateurish like this to keep happening? More fun and non-surprises to come :D
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,523
LRMs are better for sniper job anyway I feel, since they can fire indirectly. And even then I'd bring jump jets to maximize ability to hide behind terrain or flank when opportunity shows up. Really, to me there's just no leaving out jump jets due to the mobility advantage they give.
Indirect fire has a penalty to-hit. Or SHOULD...
 

gestalt11

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
629
LRMs are better for sniper job anyway I feel, since they can fire indirectly. And even then I'd bring jump jets to maximize ability to hide behind terrain or flank when opportunity shows up. Really, to me there's just no leaving out jump jets due to the mobility advantage they give.
Indirect fire has a penalty to-hit. Or SHOULD...
It does and its countered by having high tactics. One of the bigger problems though is the arrangment of extra hardpoints making many mech models mostly pointless as there are usually one or two models superior for everything. Very little point to use a catapult over the Orion variant that has more missile hardpoints, has more tons and can slot jumpjet anyway.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,523
It does and its countered by having high tactics. One of the bigger problems though is the arrangment of extra hardpoints making many mech models mostly pointless as there are usually one or two models superior for everything. Very little point to use a catapult over the Orion variant that has more missile hardpoints, has more tons and can slot jumpjet anyway.
It seems that a problem with the game is that most of the combat is close quarters. Hence, there is a lot of emphasis on SRM, LRM indirect fire and the like. This automatically pigeonholes everything (weapons, jump jets, armour over speed, etc.). There is also no mention on sandpapering and SRM/LRM crit seeking tactics.

Once again, I am struck by how un-BTech this game is.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,523
The reason for this (IMO) potentially dangerous behaviour is that when you modify a mech build and save it, the game save it into the internal DB or some save file that we don't currently have any idea where it is. That isn't bad, it's a good thing. It lets us save our favorite broke builds to repeatedly bring up to beat people over the head with.

The bad thing, and unknown to most of you, is that whenever Skirmish or Mechlab starts up, it does a basic verification check against ALL saved builds, and start generating warnings such as the above when they find mech builds that doesn't work. The worse part is that it doesn't ignore these, but goes into stunlock.

Since these builds are not in JSON and is actually likely in a DB somewhere, we can't manually remove these entries. The solution I went with (since it's my mods and I know what the heck I did), was to reinstate the missing entries that the system is complaining about, and try the Skirmish and Mechlab. Once those are working, I go through the entries and delete any that contains the bad material. And then I can remove the unwanted Manifest entries. If that sound like a lot of work, yes it is.. well actually not that bad since I have certain habits. But that's because I know the crap that I'm working on.

But imagine if you are a basic user who heard of this great mod and you download but found it not as great as you felt it to be. You remove the mod and then the whole game locks up on you. You reinstall and lose all progress in the main game. How'd that make you feel about the mod creator?

note: mods may fuck up your campaign
Another nail in the coffin. Dang, that poor thing looks like a hedgehog...
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,200
(What is up with constant cinematics showing the Argo moving between systems?

Oh God, don't tell me they copied one of the MOST annoying "features" of Nu-Xcom? The one that was quickly edited out by anyone sane and minimally capable?

the mod situation is just getting better and better
note: mods may fuck up your campaign

This is reminding me of the BB situation more and more. The urge to refund this shit and instead pirate it after a year or two when the expansions are out is increasing...
 

Bohr

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
1,878
Hmmm

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...s-load-times-and-general-performance.1093704/
PSA: Number of saved games affects load times and general performance

And I don't just mean the pre-mission load times, either, though it obviously affects that. It also affects general menu navigation - even the simple act of switching between rooms on the Argo or changing patterns on your mechs is affected by this!

This is an utterly baffling occurrence and it is completely beyond me to guess why in the world old saved games would affect general performance like this (seriously, what kind of spaghetti code are we talking here??), but my performance results speak for themselves. The contrast between before and after I cleared out my old saves really is night and day. Literally, I shaved minutes off of my typical load times.

So, if you're suffering from long and annoying hitches like I was, clean out those saves. You'll be happier for it.

***

That actually worked. I don't know why but it did. Are we certain this wasn't coded by some first year intern?

***

Hmmm... I guess maybe it's trying to reload the save game list regardless of what screen you're on and causing the actual thing it's doing to hang?

***

Could be. Also, I did notice that the loading time would increase during each individual session the more I saved.

***

You can find the save file here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\xxx\637090\remote\C0\SGS1

GoG:

\AppData\Local\GOG.com\Galaxy\Applications\50593543263669699\Storage\Shared\Files\C0\SGS.

***

Wow okay, this is huge. I just deleted a whole chunk of saves I didn't even notice piling up. Used to wait upwards of about 8-9 seconds for Mechbays and refits to load, a handful for each function in the argo. Now it's nearly instant. You are a life saver man! Thanks

***

Just wanted to second this, thanks so much. it got to the point where the game would pause each day on the Argo screen when fast forwarding time or travelling. Cheers!
 
Last edited:

Alpharius

Scholar
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
586
I found lights useful in early game, later on maybe Jenner stays on top due to offensive power.

But as the game moves on and enemies get heavier - a medium is the best light. And the best medium for harasser/skirmisher/general asshole is either a Shadowhawk (preferably -2D for max SRMs + 2 MGs, max JJ) or Kintaro. Put in a Master Tactician and voila! A Light mech.

Imo, once you have assaults, assault is the best light. With maxed piloting and jumpjets my stalker can get 6 evasion things on sprint and 5 evasion on jump. Though assaults that can fit 4 jumpjets are somewhat better at this, since they have more jump range than a stalker. Btw, jump range with 4 jumpjets for a light and an assault are the same ofc, so battlemaster has the same mobility as orion, centurion and a panther.
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
This is completely useless, since i can only bring 4 mechs on a mission, there's no reason to cripple myself and bring these lightest mechs. My lowest treshold for DMG is 80, below the mech is not worth the effort. Ive theory crafted a small sniper support mech with 4xAC/2 cannons, but i can't find any with 4 ballistic slots. There are medium that can pack 3 ballistics, but why would i bring them, when i can pack a mech with 3 SRMS and have high damage output, low heat, and with jumpjet i can close the distance easily?
That is a HBS problem, which I have stated in the post as not a concern of mine. They fucked up the rules and made lights useless. Lights are perfectly viable in REAL BTech.
it’s not supposed to be based on tonnage deployed?
iirc old mechwarrior games was about that.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,523
That is a HBS problem, which I have stated in the post as not a concern of mine. They fucked up the rules and made lights useless. Lights are perfectly viable in REAL BTech.
it’s not supposed to be based on tonnage deployed?
iirc old mechwarrior games was about that.
MW games never had tonnage limits. You are thinking of MechCommander.

I am talking about TT rules, where speed is a major factor in to-hit rolls. Lights get a massive bonus to survivability when they run like hell. Range is also a factor, which is why lights with long-range weapons are extremely annoying and murderous in the long term.
 

Sloul

Savant
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
271
Yes there is tonnage Elex, but even so, you avoid lights.
The top of the line Medium are power-house comparred to lights.
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
19,251
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
:hmmm:
I've been doing few random lance vs random lance clashes on SP skirmish.
6 matches, 6 times game has rolled exact same lances.
Is RNG being RNG or have they messed up random selection?
Odds favor later option.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2

Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
12,845
Location
don't identify with EU-NPC land
Strap Yourselves In
The game has some potential but it has to fulfill these conditions:

1. Ease of making mods and integrating them
2. Waiting for a patch for all bugfixes, QoL improvements, and loadout times reduction
3. DLCs or expansions with more fleshed out mechanics -rocket countermeasures like current aps systems, more equipment, more weapons variety, ARGO upgrades, change in mechanics -make lights more useful, change in economy and way the money is spend and handled
4. Tough choices and prioritization, timelines and deadlines, hostile sectors more deadly but might be more lucrative since doing jobs for rivals starved with firepower.
5. More tactical considerations, CC and disabling effects, more countermeasures, special ammo and weapons with limited usability per mission, more classes synergy.

I guess with another year of work they could make it great game.
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
19,251
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
I've played MP on random lances with 20M c-bills limit, and it chose a 20M lance for me and 15M one for the opponent. :D
I've actually considered taking one of the light default lances against heavier teams just to see how much damage I can do before annihilation.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,523
I've played MP on random lances with 20M c-bills limit, and it chose a 20M lance for me and 15M one for the opponent. :D
I've actually considered taking one of the light default lances against heavier teams just to see how much damage I can do before annihilation.
If the rules are done right and you know the system well, a surprising amount.

I recall a fight I had on TT where it was a Black Python vs 1 Timberwolf and 1 Dire Wolf (Natasha's Widowmaker config). The match ended with the Dire Wolf a smoking monument standing in a lake and the Timberwolf nearly cored and missing many of its weapons. Bastard finally wised up and charged the Black Python and kicked its leg off to prevent it jumping :argh:
 

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