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KickStarter BATTLETECH - turn-based mech combat from Harebrained Schemes

PanteraNera

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All is see is that they realesed a good tactical game
sorry man, but it isn't.
I can only second MadMaxHellfire opinion.

If you have grown up and enjoyed games like UFO Enemy Unknown, or Jagged Alliance 2 the later with the excellent 1.13 "mod" you have a hard time perceiving BT as an good tactical game.
But even in its own setting MechCommander 1&2 had been a lot more enjoyable (while being RTS and I do prefer TB by a lot!).

It is a question of perception, yes I can even go as far as saying that for it's time it is a "good tactical game" but yeah in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Personally if the story and characters were more interesting, as in more believable, I would have even gone as far as saying that it is an entertaining game but it wasn't for me.
 

J_C

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All is see is that they realesed a good tactical game
sorry man, but it isn't.
I can only second MadMaxHellfire opinion.

If you have grown up and enjoyed games like UFO Enemy Unknown, or Jagged Alliance 2 the later with the excellent 1.13 "mod" you have a hard time perceiving BT as an good tactical game.
But even in its own setting MechCommander 1&2 had been a lot more enjoyable (while being RTS and I do prefer TB by a lot!).

It is a question of perception, yes I can even go as far as saying that for it's time it is a "good tactical game" but yeah in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Personally if the story and characters were more interesting, as in more believable, I would have even gone as far as saying that it is an entertaining game but it wasn't for me.
Nothing will top JA2, so it is needless to compare everything to that, because everything else will come off as shit. Even if I compare UFO EU to JA2, UFO falls short. But as you said, for it's time Battletech is a good tactical game. It's not much, but it is fun and well put together, especially after the fixes.
 

PanteraNera

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Nothing will top JA2, so it is needless to compare everything to that, because everything else will come off as shit. Even if I compare UFO EU to JA2, UFO falls short. But as you said, for it's time Battletech is a good tactical game. It's not much, but it is fun and well put together, especially after the fixes.
Well I think that is the "problem" with the Codex, a lot of oldfaqs that still hope that one day we get something better than JA2. Very likely we will not. Thought End State looks really promising.
For me the ultimate game: tactical layer of JA2 mixed with strategical layer of UFO EU, all in 3D with procedurally generated maps in an post apocalyptic setting.
 

Cael

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Nothing will top JA2, so it is needless to compare everything to that, because everything else will come off as shit. Even if I compare UFO EU to JA2, UFO falls short. But as you said, for it's time Battletech is a good tactical game. It's not much, but it is fun and well put together, especially after the fixes.
Well I think that is the "problem" with the Codex, a lot of oldfaqs that still hope that one day we get something better than JA2. Very likely we will not. Thought End State looks really promising.
For me the ultimate game: tactical layer of JA2 mixed with strategical layer of UFO EU, all in 3D with procedurally generated maps in an post apocalyptic setting.
Some of us would be satisfied with an unfucked version of real CBT without the SJWs raping the franchise and rewriting history as they are wont to do.
 

PanteraNera

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Some of us would be satisfied with an unfucked version of real CBT without the SJWs raping the franchise and rewriting history as they are wont to do.
Some is not mainstream enough.
You read so often that people just don't care for lore/history.
Just look at Bethesda's Fallout and what they've changed.
People seem to not care for lore, history or deep game mechanics these days.
It is all about being "entertained".

The way I see it: the current generation of gamers rather have something awesome to happen by clicking the "awesome button" than to create an awesome situation in the game them-self. Why should developers invest time to give players the freedom to use tactics, if they are easily pleased with limited options but lots of explosssiiuuuhns.
 

Cael

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Some of us would be satisfied with an unfucked version of real CBT without the SJWs raping the franchise and rewriting history as they are wont to do.
Some is not mainstream enough.
You read so often that people just don't care for lore/history.
Just look at Bethesda's Fallout and what they've changed.
People seem to not care for lore, history or deep game mechanics these days.
It is all about being "entertained".

The way I see it: the current generation of gamers rather have something awesome to happen by clicking the "awesome button" than to create an awesome situation in the game them-self. Why should developers invest time to give players the freedom to use tactics, if they are easily pleased with limited options but lots of explosssiiuuuhns.
It would certainly explain the fanboism of that other fucked up game: Bugmaker.

However, it takes a seriously incompetent writer to not be able to write lots of explosions in a setting that is built on lots of explosions and instead had to make up his own shit as a substitute.

In fact, I fully expect HBS to write a Takashi Kurita cameo and have him go on and on and on about inclooooosiveness.

Those of you who know the character of the real Takashi, here you go:
96f0b6ee03dc5e3a322d0e5ad2de366d.jpg
 
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ArchAngel

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If Battletech campaign was done in the way of old C&C games with over the top bad guy, lots of explosive missions and fun factor between it all, it would have been a much better game.
 
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Mechcommander 2 is a hell of a lot of fun, still BT does some things quite a bit better. Unfortunately the budgetness of BT grinds you down and makes it less fun than the MC games. With a little more mission variety, and some changes to get rid of the heavier=better progression (that plagues all of the Battletech computer games) and it would easily be the best of the games in the franchise.
 

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https://www.pcgamer.com/flashpoint-is-a-brilliant-addition-to-battletechs-late-game/

Flashpoint is a brilliant addition to BattleTech's late-game
But really it's all about that axe.

There are a lot of different ways to build a lance in BattleTech, especially now that the Flashpoint expansion has introduced three new types of mech. You might want a bunch of gunners that can take out the opposing team from afar, or you could throw in some light mechs to outmanoeuvre them, but I keep going for the classic Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em Robots tactic: punch everything until it explodes. I feel very well catered for, then, because now I can fling a mech with a giant axe into these heavy metal brawls.

My big, sweet Hatchetman is the most beloved of all my mechs. He's large, of course (though technically he's medium, according to his classification), and he's rather deft at hitting things, specifically with a big robo-axe. Look at him go!

I'm extremely proud. The Hatchetman is obviously a brawler, excelling at close range fights, and he's got some short-range weapons along with his nasty axe. Despite looking like a big bruiser, he's surprisingly light on his feet, which he needs to be, given that he's his armour can't stand much of a pounding. Still, I like to throw caution to the wind and launch him towards enemies with wild abandon.

He's accompanied by the Crab and the Cyclops. The Crab's an extremely heat-efficient skirmisher, able to unleash its lasers on enemies without having to worry about ammunition or taking breaks to manage its temperature. The very expensive Cyclops is, at 90 tonnes, a beefy boy with lots of armour, but he doesn't dole out the damage quite as much as other mechs in his weight class. There's still a very good reason to add him to your lance, however. The Cyclops has a battle computer that kicks everyone's initiative up a notch, letting you attack with your heaviest hitters a lot more quickly.

Freelancer
Flashpoint has more of a sandbox spirit than vanilla BattleTech. With or without the expansion, you can flit around space, picking missions from a list of jobs—depending on your reputation and ability—while hiring new crew and building a whole host of mechanical monsters, but the story stops short of letting you be a proper free-wheeling mercenary. You’ve got debts, responsibilities and allegiances all tied to the plot. The titular flashpoint missions and a new career mode (which everyone gets as part of a free update) loosen the reins.

Career mode removes the story and the pressures that come with it, letting you go where you want and take on whatever missions tickle your fancy. It’s BattleTech, but without the restrictions. And without the story missions to work towards, you’re free to build your mercenary company the way you want, rather than just making a lance that’s tough enough to tackle the next part of the campaign.

Since the campaign doles out free mechs, big chunks of cash and gives you a clear path to follow, the career mode feels more appropriate for a second playthrough. BattleTech’s a tricky game, but the structure of the campaign eases you into it better than the career mode sandbox. If you’ve already completed the campaign and want an alternative challenge, however, it seems perfect. If you get the expansion, too, it pairs well with the flashpoint missions.

Alongside the standard gigs where you’re just doing random odd jobs for pirates and noble houses, you’ll encounter special missions—sometimes bastard-hard—that come with all the conversation, plot and occasional choices that you might instead expect from the campaign. But since they’re self-contained and optional, there’s never any pressure to do them. You’re leading a bunch of mercenaries—nobody tells you when you have to go to work. So you get the benefit of the story and their fleeting but welcome characters, but you still get to feel like you’re charting your own course, not tied down by obligations to deposed monarchs.

The gauntlet
Flashpoint missions also appear in the regular campaign, so if you’re playing for the first time, or you don’t want to have to start fresh, you can still take them on. In particular, they benefit the end-game, giving you something to do with your battle-hardened mechs instead of the same old challenges. They’ve got big paydays, but they’re also risky. You might find yourself duking it out in consecutive battles without any time to repair or heal, so you’ll want to prepare and have plenty of beefy mechs and veteran pilots at the ready.

When you’re dealing with consecutive deployments, you can’t just shrug off losses, and even a mech just losing a limb could risk the success of subsequent battles. Consequences loom large over the battlefield, ramping up the tension even when things are going your way. A single bad turn can transform a walk in the park into a catastrophe in normal missions, but it’s so much more pronounced when you can’t just fix everything up on the Argo when you’re done.

While the stories that play out during the flashpoints are self-contained, they contribute to a more cohesive galaxy. There’s more going on now, with more meaningful conflicts between factions. Rather than just being the weapon they use to win, you get to have a say in the outcome, nudging the story down one path or another. And they contribute to a tone—that free-wheeling mercenary life—that just fits so well with the BattleTech universe. Each is a full adventure that you can enjoy in one sitting, and then you’re off to the next one, or maybe some other kind of job. It’s almost episodic, not in the style of an episodic game, per se, but at least evocative of interstellar sci-fi TV like Battlestar Galactica or Firefly.

There are a lot of ways to get into Flashpoint, but with its biggest features being geared more towards the end-game and second playthroughs, it’s not quite essential if you’re just starting out as a first-time mech commander. It should still absolutely be on your radar, and if you've been considering another round of robot brawling, Flashpoint is a great excuse.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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More sandbox is exactly the thing it didn't need.

Mechcommander 2 is a hell of a lot of fun, still BT does some things quite a bit better. Unfortunately the budgetness of BT grinds you down and makes it less fun than the MC games. With a little more mission variety, and some changes to get rid of the heavier=better progression (that plagues all of the Battletech computer games) and it would easily be the best of the games in the franchise.
To be fair to all the vidya tho, heavier=better plague is kind of baked in since the moment you allow custom 'mechs in the TT system you run into the same thing and it only gets worse with every additional level of tech. It's kind of inevitable given the way the tonnage mathematics work. MechWarrior just has the least excuse for it.

MechCommander 1 at least had the courtesy to make Raven the only thing that could mount BAP and ECM, so it was always good to have one along (plus that way you could save up some more tonnage to fit in more stolen Mad Cats). That's pretty much it in that regard.

But I totally agree, the biggest issue with BT the game is the misallocation of resources to put so much into sandbox. And grinding you down is pretty much the perfect description of BT, it STARTS OFF as one of the best vidya of the franchise, but then it starts to wear you down through repetition and the way rewards are really just you scaling with the game rather than actually accomplishing something, and the heavier=better progression only makes the fights take longer and longer. Plus rising sizes of enemy encounters means maneuvering becomes more restricted since while you might be able to circle around the enemy that just means you have all the other enemies behind you.
 

Cael

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More sandbox is exactly the thing it didn't need.

Mechcommander 2 is a hell of a lot of fun, still BT does some things quite a bit better. Unfortunately the budgetness of BT grinds you down and makes it less fun than the MC games. With a little more mission variety, and some changes to get rid of the heavier=better progression (that plagues all of the Battletech computer games) and it would easily be the best of the games in the franchise.
To be fair to all the vidya tho, heavier=better plague is kind of baked in since the moment you allow custom 'mechs in the TT system you run into the same thing and it only gets worse with every additional level of tech. It's kind of inevitable given the way the tonnage mathematics work. MechWarrior just has the least excuse for it.

MechCommander 1 at least had the courtesy to make Raven the only thing that could mount BAP and ECM, so it was always good to have one along (plus that way you could save up some more tonnage to fit in more stolen Mad Cats). That's pretty much it in that regard.

But I totally agree, the biggest issue with BT the game is the misallocation of resources to put so much into sandbox. And grinding you down is pretty much the perfect description of BT, it STARTS OFF as one of the best vidya of the franchise, but then it starts to wear you down through repetition and the way rewards are really just you scaling with the game rather than actually accomplishing something, and the heavier=better progression only makes the fights take longer and longer. Plus rising sizes of enemy encounters means maneuvering becomes more restricted since while you might be able to circle around the enemy that just means you have all the other enemies behind you.
Actually, the most dangerous 'mech in TT is a 70-tonner, not a 100-tonner.

In Mechwarrior 2, arguably the most dangerous 'mech for a Clan trial is also a 70-tonner. In multiplayer, if you choose the no ammo limit option (virtually required since respawning basically means you will die of no ammo given how Clan 'mechs are optimised for 1-vs-1 combat), the most dangerous 'mech is definitely a 70-tonner.

In Mechwarrior 2 Mercs, the heaviest 'mech I used was the Masakari. I ignored heavier 'mechs, and was tossing up between the Masakari and the Mad Cat.

In Mechcommander 1, I prefer to use lighter 'mechs to maximise pilot skill enhancement.

In Mechcommander 2, it is rare that I take a 'mech heavier than the Sha Yu. The only missions I take heavier 'mechs are the missions where RU collected means that I will exceed 16 'mechs on the field (the maximum) if I go full Sha Yu. The reasons for that are speed and pilot enhancement.

Seriously, if you are good, slow assault 'mechs in BTech computer games is a trap. However, trust HBS to completely fuck this in the eye.

EDIT: By the way, the best 'mech in the Crescent Hawk's Revenge is the upgraded Marauder.
 
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Vaarna_Aarne

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Well it depends really. I would say more accurate situation in most franchise vidya is that there's a 'zone' in tonnage that's just better and changes are marginal (and this scale suspiciously tends to center around Mad Cat), I suppose I should say that my characterization of the way it works in MechWarrior is kind of egrerious in that it's not so much that the tonnage goes up linearly but that the tonnage below the game specific sweet zone is just useless and differences within the sweet zone are marginal. In TT it is a rather different manner because there's way more ways to break that then any of the games with each TL that is used, and due to default being estimate equal vs equal you have a very different environment in which those rules operate (also medium laser), but effective tonnage scaling with weight (with similar "inbetween" weights as vidya) is very much a thing full force there.

The big part of how it works in BT the vidya is movement's diminishing returns (since as mentioned, battle sizes increasingly limit the value of maneuver, in TT 4v4 it usually pays to flank but in BT vidya's 4v12+ you'd kinda just self-flank harder at the same time), the movement ultimately being about jump jets rather than leg speed (tonnage tax), but most of all excessive pressure for maximum firepower and endurance because your primary enemy is attrition (due to battle sizes). Plus you ideally don't lose body parts much less entire 'mechs and pilots meaning survivability with maximized outgoing damage is paramount. Add to that the fact you are operating on a minimum and maximum of 4 dudes which means needing to have everyone carry as much to fight as possible to offset numbers faced. So effective tonnage is king, because you NEED your front guys to be able to take it when they keep getting shot at hard and fire back as hard as they can, and you NEED your possible support missile guy to be firing as many LRMs each turn as possible for as long as possible.
 

Cael

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Well it depends really. I would say more accurate situation in most franchise vidya is that there's a 'zone' in tonnage that's just better and changes are marginal (and this scale suspiciously tends to center around Mad Cat), I suppose I should say that my characterization of the way it works in MechWarrior is kind of egrerious in that it's not so much that the tonnage goes up linearly but that the tonnage below the game specific sweet zone is just useless and differences within the sweet zone are marginal. In TT it is a rather different manner because there's way more ways to break that then any of the games with each TL that is used, and due to default being estimate equal vs equal you have a very different environment in which those rules operate (also medium laser), but effective tonnage scaling with weight (with similar "inbetween" weights as vidya) is very much a thing full force there.

The big part of how it works in BT the vidya is movement's diminishing returns (since as mentioned, battle sizes increasingly limit the value of maneuver, in TT 4v4 it usually pays to flank but in BT vidya's 4v12+ you'd kinda just self-flank harder at the same time), the movement ultimately being about jump jets rather than leg speed (tonnage tax), but most of all excessive pressure for maximum firepower and endurance because your primary enemy is attrition (due to battle sizes). Plus you ideally don't lose body parts much less entire 'mechs and pilots meaning survivability with maximized outgoing damage is paramount. Add to that the fact you are operating on a minimum and maximum of 4 dudes which means needing to have everyone carry as much to fight as possible to offset numbers faced. So effective tonnage is king, because you NEED your front guys to be able to take it when they keep getting shot at hard and fire back as hard as they can, and you NEED your possible support missile guy to be firing as many LRMs each turn as possible for as long as possible.
Mechwarrior 4 tried to mess around with that by using the weapon type bays. It made the tonnage problem worse because people go for higher tonnage in order to compensate for the bay types. For example, you want to mount 2 LB-20X. If you can't find a chassis in the preferred 50-ton range that allows you to do so, you go find one that is a far higher tonnage that has 2 3-slot ballistic bays and a whole frakk-ton of unused energy bays, like the Fafnir.

Mechwarrior 2 Mercs has the SRM-2 Inferno. It is an incredibly overpowered weapon, to the point that my preferred weapon configuration is 1 ER large laser, 4 medium pulse lasers and 4 SRM-2I. Anything else is basically double heat sinks. Once I run out of criticals, there is no point for extra tonnage. Therefore, I dump it all into engine and/or lower the tonnage of the 'mech I am piloting. That is why I am more than happy with the Mad Cat or Masakari instead of going full bore into the Atlas or Kodiak.

It is the same with Mechcommander 2. If I were restricted in what weapon types I can put on a 'mech, I would most definitely be fielding much heavier 'mechs. But since I am not, but I am restricted in the total tonnage of 'mechs I can field in a mission, I use the 40t Sha Yu almost exclusively (once I have access to them, that is; Razorbacks and Starslayers before that).

The point is that you give people alternatives to heavier is better, and one of the best way of doing that is to restrict tonnage and increase number of 'mechs you can field (16 for Mechcommander 2; which is effectively unlimited number of starting 'mechs due to the tonnage restriction). Of course, the fucktards, being HBS, went the complete opposite way instead. It is like the reverse Midas Touch with these guys.
 
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Olinser

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If Battletech campaign was done in the way of old C&C games with over the top bad guy, lots of explosive missions and fun factor between it all, it would have been a much better game.

I mean.... Victoria and Ostergaard ARE really over-the-top bad guys. Ostergaard especially is foaming-at-the-mouth crazy.
 

ArchAngel

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If Battletech campaign was done in the way of old C&C games with over the top bad guy, lots of explosive missions and fun factor between it all, it would have been a much better game.

I mean.... Victoria and Ostergaard ARE really over-the-top bad guys. Ostergaard especially is foaming-at-the-mouth crazy.
The presentation is key. They are not Kane or presented as such.
 
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Has anyone managed to disable the unskippable in-engine cinematics that play as the Argo travels and transitions from point to point?

It's driving me insane watching them for the 500th time in a row. You'd think they'd add a toggle to the option menu or something!
 

Cael

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Has anyone managed to disable the unskippable in-engine cinematics that play as the Argo travels and transitions from point to point?

It's driving me insane watching them for the 500th time in a row. You'd think they'd add a toggle to the option menu or something!
Stick this on as your unit's emblem and get a bit of amusement every time the Argo travels:

45E51AAC00000578-0-image-a-11_1509539635695.jpg
 

Bohr

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HBS did a Q&A at Mechcon and it seems someone asked about the warhammer and the marauder ('unseen') and it was actually confirmed that they're coming. The marauder was in the original alpha before the legal spat kicked off again.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/343727858?t=06h54m01s
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-battletech-but-not-in-urban-warfare.1132922/

"Someone finally asked Mitch and Jordan at Mechcon during the Q&A. HBS are not legally barred from using them. It's mostly a question of manpower and that they do not have enough personnel to implement them. They will not show up in Urban Warfare, so expect something post-summer 2019 at the soonest. Everyone at HBS love the Unseen and they are aware that they promised them during the Kickstarter, they just had to postpone them due to the legal challenges. But Mitch just confirmed it, they will come."

and as someone said in that thread:
"So now all the studios, Catalyst Game Labs, Piranha Games Interactive, and Harebrained Schemes are officially able to use the Unseen. If you check the Mechwarrior 5 trailer, both the Warhammer and the Marauder are in it, and Catalyst Game Labs are using the Marco Mazzoni's Marauder art for the 35 year anniversary of the tabletop game with a Combat Manual featuring the artwork."
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Well Warhammer is in the original box cover, so I suppose that is true. Though it's also a Destroid Tomahawk so it's sort of not. I figure if any 'mech gets that mascot status, while also being original art, it's probably Mad Cat (even if I personally don't care for chickenwalkers).
 

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http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/121618-battletech-flashpoint-reviews.html

PC Gamer Scoreless:

There are a lot of ways to get into Flashpoint, but with its biggest features being geared more towards the end-game and second playthroughs, it’s not quite essential if you’re just starting out as a first-time mech commander. It should still absolutely be on your radar, and if you've been considering another round of robot brawling, Flashpoint is a great excuse.

Rock, Paper, Shotgun Scoreless:

Flashpoint is fine expansion in terms of re-engineering BattleTech for extended play, then – far better than kicking us into another pit of mega-story or necessitating a new beginning. Long-term, I’d love to see more vibrancy from BattleTech – wilder planets, more colourful mechs and special attacks, grimier, punchier characters – but I suspect only the latter is compatible with this decades-old setting. Already though, a Flashpoint-augmented BattleTech is a significantly leaner and more adaptable machine than the lumbering brute of launch.

Strategy Gamer Scoreless:

BattleTech is a solid tactics game, but I’m not convinced there’s enough to it to support the kind of long-tail engagement that expansions like Flashpoint assume it demands. The promise of unending procedural content in games is always eventually undercut by the reality that procedural content doesn’t do new things in interesting ways, and by the time I reached the end of BattleTech’s campaign, I’d seen about all I wanted to see. Flashpoint doesn’t offer anything transformative, the way XCOM 2’s War of the Chosen expansion did. Dedicated BattleTech players will want to give this a look, but with as many options as we have now for interesting strategy experiences, everyone else can consider this addition as highly optional.

Save Or Quit Save:

Flashpoint adds a decent amount of new stuff: mechs, missions, and a biome. It evens out some of the gameplay, though these changes will be included in a core game patch as well anyway, and it provides a number of options to customise your game, but some minor issues from the core game remain. The new Flashpoints are very cool, as are the new biome and mechs (if a little overpowered in their specialities), but the career mode is disappointingly cribbed from the campaign; it would have been much better with a different ship and crew.

Flashpoint is an evolutionary improvement rather than a revolutionary one, but if you like BATTLETECH, you should definitely pick it up.

GameCritics 7/10:

Overall, Flashpoint doesn’t offer anything that will pull new players in — almost everything in this DLC is geared toward end- or post-game content, and this is its underlying problem. If all of these elements were mixed in with the single player campaign, they’d be nice flavor in the otherwise-dull side content. However, since this DLC seems tailor-made for people who’ve already finished the story (like me) there just isn’t enough to hold my interest. Perhaps when the other two planned DLCs drop, the blend of all three additions will justify the $50 season pass (or $20 for Flashpoint alone) but right now there just isn’t enough of it.
 

Saduj

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"BattleTech is a solid tactics game, but I’m not convinced there’s enough to it to support the kind of long-tail engagement that expansions like Flashpoint assume it demands."

Can't disagree with this more. I liked the game but the more I think about it, the less I'm interested in a DLC that isn't a new campaign.
 

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