Incline Best necromancy on RPG's

[Storyfag]

It never fails to puzzle me how the fuck can anyone create "make food" type of spells without realizing how much of a wrecking ball they are for pretty much any setting

Unless there are serious limitations IE - The food is not near nutritive as non magical food, create food would have a HUGE impact in the world economy. That i don't see writers taking it into account..

1. If you realy on magical food, you are dependant on one person's ability. one cleric probabbly can provide food for, like, ten persons. And (arcane/divine) casters are not that common. 5 percenter? So they can not provide food to the whole population.

Let's add to that the fact that not every cleric is favoured enough to create food, and not every cleric will do so routinely, seeing as his powers can and will be needed for other things.

 

[Saerain]

The way I've kinda always wanted to handle it is that it's transmuted from some material (or using it as reagent) that's more precious than the food created. Makes it pretty much only worthwhile for travelers/"adventurers' as it's easier to carry a pouch of ridiculous gems than two months of food or whatever.

 

[DraQ]

Unless there are serious limitations IE - The food is not near nutritive as non magical food, create food would have a HUGE impact in the world economy.

Well, goodberry manages to cram whole lot of nutrition in a single berry.

Well Skyrim did pretty good job at that.

Only one summon / two with a max conjuration
Cooldowns on shouts
No curses or nasty necromantic effects
(...)

I don't think so.

There is still the "actually raise the target" part, complete with actual inventory and stuff.
Very few games even try.

 

[Cryomancer]

There is still the "actually raise the target" part, complete with actual inventory and stuff.
Very few games even try.

Yes, is amazing compared to other modern games. Mainly considering how AWFUL """necromancy""" is on Dragon Age Inquisition( https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Necromancer ) and ESO. And it is AWFUL when you consider that they took away blood magic to put this boring """necromancer""" on DA:I... Among the mmo, Ultima Online has the best necromancer. Age of Conan, the second.

 

[typical user]

Only one summon / two with a max conjuration
Cooldowns on shouts
No curses or nasty necromantic effects
(...)

I don't think so.

Yeah the game is pretty limited but there are none currently which would allow to have something of even equal detail. Like which game allows you to raise back those pesky draugr, equip them with better weapons and just play discovery mode while your minions hack through all. Plus there ton of autistic mods which fix all of the listed issues, yes lifting global cooldown on shouts too.

 

[DraQ]

There is still the "actually raise the target" part, complete with actual inventory and stuff.
Very few games even try.

Yes, is amazing compared to other modern games.

Amazing compared to most games. Very few games have necromancy that actually is necromancy.

 

[deuxhero]

make a berry provide a day's food

How is it anything but?

You need a bunch of fresh berries (and likely ones that are edible in the first place). That's actually a very important distinction from creating food out of nothing. It limits casting to a few parts of the year in the relatively few berry growing areas (Can't be used in urban areas, underground, mountains, ect.) in the relatively few parts of the world where the climate supports berry growth.

 

[DraQ]

Don't know how it is in FR, but here on Earth you have forests where pretty much entire forest floor is occupied by berries. Yes, the edible ones.
Spell like this makes for a ludicrous sustenance multiplier, and yes, all the extra sustenance comes out of nowhere.

 

[deuxhero]

Yes, forests in very specific parts of the world at speciffic times of year.

Besides, it's a Druid only spell for the most part and Druids are well known cunts that don't want civilization to expand.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Beamdog erecting the corpses of Infinity Engine RPGs to make a quick buck.

 

[Cryomancer]

Amazing compared to most games. Very few games have necromancy that actually is necromancy.

Very few games also explore more from necromancy than just "hur dur undead army", on Arcanum, you can talk to the dead to solve mysteries and there are people using undead as cheap labor force.

Besides, it's a Druid only spell for the most part and Druids are well known cunts that don't want civilization to expand.

Varg is a IRL druid.

 

[DraQ]

Beamdog erecting the corpses

Eww.

on Arcanum, you can talk to the dead to solve mysteries and there are people using undead as cheap labor force.

And that's the kind of stuff that is genuinely cool - bonus points for necromancy originally being just that - speaking with the dead - not necessarily raising skellingtons for fun and profit.

 

[Cryomancer]

And that's the kind of stuff that is genuinely cool - bonus points for necromancy originally being just that - speaking with the dead - not necessarily raising skellingtons for fun and profit.

And pyromancy was supposed to be divination with fire but on all games that i know, is fire conjuration + pyrokinesis.

Including Dark Souls. In fact, on DS3 your pyromancer can also use dark flames. Something that makes no sense on Dark Souls universe(age of darkness/age of fire, the fact that undead that are dark resistant are weak to fire, etc means that this should be opposite forces in the universe.)

 

[Chaosdwarft]

So what game do you recommend to get the best Necromancer experience? I loved playing necromancer in Diablo 2, but have not managed to find other games that do it properly. The only other game I think it got it right was Warhammer Fantasy, Conquest of Elysium and Dominions.

Why is it so hard to do create a proper necromancer experience? Is it because publishers fear some stupid Christian or religious group will try to boycott their game, like with D&D in the 1980s.

To a certain extent I feel most mage classes in RPG games are treated as nuke delivery machines (METAL GEAR!). One of the few things Divinity Origins did right, was using different schools of magic to make awesome combos.

 

[Cryomancer]

So what game do you recommend to get the best Necromancer experience? I loved playing necromancer in Diablo 2, but have not managed to find other games that do it properly. The only other game I think it got it right was Warhammer Fantasy, Conquest of Elysium and Dominions.

I would recommend the games that i mentioned in the thread.

Might & Magic VI~VIII. The M&M VI is a better game, but M&M VII/VIII allows you to obtain lichdoom.

Arcanum - Conjure Spirit allows you to speak with the dead to solve some mysteries / help in a quest and Create Undead allows you to (re)animate corpses. You can also learn "white necromancy" who is all about healing and ressurection.

Mount & Blade - Phantasy calradia MOD

Pathfinder Kingmaker

Two Worlds 1 & 2. 1 limits a lot your summons and both are more "undead conjuration" instead of "corpse animation" but worth the experience.

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I also agree that mages in most games are more like human artillery instead of actual mages. But there are good games with good implementation of sorcery. On Gothic 3, a water mage can make the time flows slower, tame savage creatures to serve and help him, open locks, freeze enemies, create a golem and a goblin, put enemies to sleep and allow you to loot areas where you would't be able to loot before, manipulate objects at range with telekinesis, etc. And of course, conjure deadly hailstorms

Spoiler

Spells on Gothic 1/2/3 feels much more like a part of the world than just "explosions"

 

[pomenitul]

Realistically speaking, there is only one way to get it right: a game entirely devoted to the art of necromancy and its complex mechanics. I would pay good money for such a game.

 

[anvi]

The Necromancer in EverQuest is better than all the action crap listed in this thread.

 

[Cryomancer]

The Necromancer in EverQuest is better than all the action crap listed in this thread.

Explain why.

 

[anvi]

It is hard to explain, best to try it on P99 which is free. Lots of things make it special.

- There is no pausing, so it is so intense because you play a game with the tactical depth of a turn based game, but you play it in real time so you have to get good at it.
- There are tons of spells. Big ones and little ones. HP buff, AC buff, strength drain and give to self, pets, instant life tap, lifetap over time, buff to make you float, resistance buffs, direct damage, poisons, diseases, ensnares, root in place, fear, dominate undead, stuns, teleports, etc, etc.
- You can control the pet. Playing something like Elder Scrolls seems so primitive to me because I can't tell the pet to change targets, or wait for me, etc.
- It is so finely tuned, if you don't play well you just end up dead. You have to use Feign Death ability if you end up with more than 1 enemy, make sure you fight them 1 at a time. The pet can be healed but he isn't strong enough to just heal it and let it beat up the enemy, you have to use things like fear or other tactics to win, and fear can't be used safely in dungeons. It takes a long time to get good and understand how to fight well, but eventually you can do dungeons by yourself even though they were designed for 6 people.
- Lots more

I like action games too sometimes, but this one was just so serious and intense, everything else pales in comparison. I wish devs played it to see how far off the mark they are.

 

[bussinrounds]

NWN series Almraiven/Shadewood.

 

[Cryomancer]

- There is no pausing, so it is so intense because you play a game with the tactical depth of a turn based game, but you play it in real time so you have to get good at it.
- There are tons of spells. Big ones and little ones. HP buff, AC buff, strength drain and give to self, pets, instant life tap, lifetap over time, buff to make you float, resistance buffs, direct damage, poisons, diseases, ensnares, root in place, fear, dominate undead, stuns, teleports, etc, etc.
- You can control the pet. Playing something like Elder Scrolls seems so primitive to me because I can't tell the pet to change targets, or wait for me, etc.
- It is so finely tuned, if you don't play well you just end up dead. You have to use Feign Death ability if you end up with more than 1 enemy, make sure you fight them 1 at a time. The pet can be healed but he isn't strong enough to just heal it and let it beat up the enemy, you have to use things like fear or other tactics to win, and fear can't be used safely in dungeons. It takes a long time to get good and understand how to fight well, but eventually you can do dungeons by yourself even though they were designed for 6 people.
- Lots more

Can you summon an army?

NWN series Almraiven/Shadewood.

NWN is awful in necromancy. Pale Masters are the most useless class ever.

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A meme

 

[anvi]

You can have an army but it is temporary. It doesn't have very 'cool' or actiony stuff, more intense tactical.

 

[Norfleet]

The best necromancy on RPGs will be when somebody comes back in 10 years to reanimate this thread.

 

[Cryomancer]

One franchise that i love with passion but has poor necromancy/dark magic is Gothic.

Gothic 1 - You can only become a necromancer by being instructed on circle 6 magic by Xardas at end game. All necromantic spells are only available in scrolls and are more "undead conjuration" rather than "undead reanimation". I an not saying that Gothic 1 is a bad game. I loved each second playing this game.

Gothic 2 - No way to become necromancer. Xardas who teaches circle 6 to you on first game? Sorry. He can't teach even circle 1 to you. You can only ask him about weapons. The unique way to become a magician in gothic 2 is by becoming a sheep of Innos(the most boring one IMO) and doing quests that should result in your expulsion, not promotion like putting a guy to sleep to steal a artifact. Spells are also ludicrous weak compared to G1. But you can be a servant of Innos praying in Beliar shrines for runes and casting army of darkness, something that makes no sense.

Gothic 3 - IS very easy to be a Dark Magician/Necromancer and learn his spells. You can at beginning of the game pick some herbs for a mage in reddrock, then pray in a beliar shrine and voala. Can use lightning bolt. BUT there are a problem. Looks like black magician's robe is the unique robe that can't be obtained without cheats. The game also limits you to only one summon(except army of darkness)

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Gothic 2 with returning mod is amazing. Only watched some videos since i can't make this mod run. You can become a Xardas apprentice, can learn demoniac language, do things that other magicians can't do like sacrifice your own health to maintain your minions(minions costs mana to maintain) and throw spells. I still an searching a similar mod for G3, IMO the alterations that i would make in G3 would be

• Summon skeleton will have no limit but each skeleton will cost 1 mana per 5 seconds.
• Will require a corpse BUT with high enough AK, the necromancer can create a corpse if there are no corpse available. It will increase exponentially the cost of casting the spell.
• Add curses
• Each spell that you learn from Beliar's magic, your body becomes less human and more demoniac and as a creature of darkness, fire is a torment and weakness to you. Each LP spended learning a dark magic spell should result in -X protection from fire.
• Will have access to buy and sells slaves on the desert
• Before you can learn the advanced dark magician spells, like summon lightning and army of darkness, first you need to learn demoniac language and bargain with powerful archdemons
• Summon demon will require that first you subjugate a demon into your servitude(and demoniac language)

The implementation of necromancy/dark magic on gothic games is very lackluster. Is sad because Gothic 3 in particular has the best implementation of water magic that i saw in my life. You can do all types of shit that i expect in a water magician. Manipulate the clouds to create lightning? Check. Throw ice lance? Check. Freeze enemies? Check. Envelops enemies into a bubble and slows then? Check. Freeze enemies? Check. Throw Ice sharp ice things? Check. This not mentioning the "natureish" gimmicky spells. Like being able to put a guy into sleep to steal him... Summon golems(unfortunately not ice golems)

You can have an army but it is temporary. It doesn't have very 'cool' or actiony stuff, more intense tactical.

Thanks. This skills have cooldowns?

 

[anvi]

Yeah it is real time so some spells take a while to cast, and then various cooldowns. Most spells can be recast right away, some special abilities you can only use every few hours or once a day etc.