Company News Bioware pop quiz at XBN

[Voss]

Arcanum was complex?

There were some relatively sophisticated quests (in that not all of them were blindly kill everything involved), but the system was simple, and combat straight forward.
Its real problem wasn't that it was too intelligent for people, but the unfamiliar setting (which you did mention), lackluster combat & graphics, its general lack of polish, and (in my opinion anyway) lack of any real 'thing'. I never had a 'holy shit, look at that' moment, and that counts for a lot.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Complex as in overwhelming for unprepared. I know many people who played the IE games without any problems, but were confused by the number of choices and lack of directions (that's how they saw it). The system was simple, but then again, so is DnD, imo, yet people bitch and complain about DnD complexity too. What complexity?

 

[Volourn]

1. HAHAHA! VD, do you even read the BIO baords. If you did you would know that NWN is far from easy for the noob. I dunno how much "easy' questions I've answered. Seriously, the D&D/NWN system is easily as complicated as the Arcanum one. Seriously, the Arcanum one just wasn't the difficult. If you found Arcanum to be some complex game; you aren't as smart as I thought you were. Very, very easy. Game play was easy, choices were easy (I mean I didn't stand there and go uh what next bub?), the story *was* simple (but better, imo, than NWN's). Even with the reccommend button (which I have actually nver tried) people can often scew up their character concept.And, TOEE outisde it's idnepth rules, is as simple as one game can be.

2. I agree that KOTOR was very simplified; but if you'd pay attention; there's a reason for that. BIO wasn't trying for the most complex combat there. It was supposed to be in every possible way to be a recreation of their original SW trilogy spirit wise. The combat was menat to look cool. The combat mechanics was extra. However, NWN is way more complex rules wise then Arcanum can ever hope to be; but it beats out NWN story wise in complexity but not by much.TOEE has the advantage rules wise and that's it.

3.Waaa... These are probably the same people who whined about them in NWN. Go figure.

4.No exuse. TOEE had noe xuse not to be a hit except it filed on the game's own merits. There was no conspiracy.

5. That's 4 out of 7 as you admit to buying NWN sicne you can't 'return' soemthing you never had. So you bought their 4 "rpgs"; but not the exapnsions. Yes, you *did* continue to buy.

6. Yeha, right. The same way people her enow praise TOEE as being a "great' dunegon crawler (which it isn't sicne the combat is too easy)unlike pre release when everyone was ure that Troika would make it awesome role-playing wise. LOL

 

[Jed]

7. And?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

People like Tri, SP, VD, and Visceris are amongst these people who either actually like BIO games but won't reallya dmit or are just plain stupid or enjoy suffering sicne they continue to buy BIO shit. Retarded or what?

How many CRPGs and expansion packs has BioWare put out over the years? BG, BG's expansion, BG2, BG2's expansion, NWN, NWN's expansion #1, NWN's expansion #2, and KotOR. Of those, I own 50%. Didn't like BG so I skipped the expansion for that. Tried the BG2 demo, didn't like it so I skipped that and it's expansion. Got NWN because it was a new direction, but I didn't like it so I skipped the first expansion for it. I got KotOR with the intent to review it, which I did, and I enjoyed it more than all their previous game. Because I actually enjoyed KotOR despite all the problems I had with it, I decided to get Hordes of the Underdark, which I enjoyed a few parts of but a lot of the areas were pretty awful. I planned on reviewing it, but it just left me feeling apathetic.

So, to say I buy all of BioWare's games and enjoy them but still just complain about them is grossly inaccurate.

 

[Volourn]

X: LOL

SP: Okay, you didn't buy the expansions (except HOTU); but you sure had thad to try all 4 of the main games. And, liking them but complaining was just one possibility I gave for the repeated purchases of BIO games depsite the anger and hatred thrown their way. the other was the glutton for punishment certain people may have. there is no other reasonable reason to continually purchase from the same company when you either barely tolertae them or outright depsise them.

You disliked BG1; but BG2 anyways.

You disliked BG2; but bought NWN anyways.

You disliked NWN; but bought KOTOR anyways.

Despite the fact you claim to like KOTOR; your review and your constant negative posts about it show otherwise; you will probably buy the next BIO PC game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

HAHAHA! VD, do you even read the BIO baords. If you did you would know that NWN is far from easy for the noob.

Which proves my earlier point about morons.

Seriously, the Arcanum one just wasn't the difficult. If you found Arcanum to be some complex game; you aren't as smart as I thought you were. Very, very easy.

Never claimed to be smart. Regardless of my intelligence or lack thereof, Arcanum is a complex game comparing to BG. Just like ToEE is more complex then IWD2. Just like JA is more complex then Silent Storm. While neither of these games is a rocket science, some are more complex then others, and that's what I was trying to say. Don't look at it from your perspective, look at it from the perspective of a person who can't understand some basic DnD rules after reading a manual.

I agree that KOTOR was very simplified; but if you'd pay attention; there's a reason for that. BIO wasn't trying for the most complex combat there. It was supposed to be in every possible way to be a recreation of their original SW trilogy spirit wise.

Ah, I see. Ok then. The good ol' trilogy. I like that scene when Obi Wan does jumping power attacks followed by flurries. That was cool.

The combat was menat to look cool.

First, couldn't it look cool if more options were added, second, who said it looked cool? Jedi Academy, now that looked cool.

No exuse. TOEE had noe xuse not to be a hit except it filed on the game's own merits. There was no conspiracy.

No conspiracy, but the reasons are simple.

That's 4 out of 7 as you admit to buying NWN sicne you can't 'return' soemthing you never had. So you bought their 4 "rpgs"; but not the exapnsions. Yes, you *did* continue to buy.

Hey, returned stuff doesn't count. No cheating!

Yeha, right. The same way people her enow praise TOEE as being a "great' dunegon crawler (which it isn't sicne the combat is too easy)unlike pre release when everyone was ure that Troika would make it awesome role-playing wise. LOL

And? Nobody argued that it was just a dungeon crawler, yet dungeon crawler is a legit form of RPG genre here: Silent Storm, IWD, JA, etc. As for the combat being too easy, I agree, and never denied that.

 

[Volourn]

1. Morons are morons. I don't worry about morons... which is why I actually take you seriously (most of the time :shock: ); and oithers (they know who theya re) not.

2. Arcanum isn't complex compared to BG. As for looking at it from another's respective. No. If someone cannot understand some of the basics of DnD after reading a manual they shouldn't be playing it. Period. As anyone who was trying to actually learn the game should learn the basics easy. Not brain surgery.

3. LOL

4. Who said it look cool? I'm not gonna use a million links to show who did. Suffice it to say, that many people did say that. Whether Jedi Academy looked cool or not is irrelevant.

5. Yeah, the reasons are simple. Troika screwed up the DMing part up big time. Then both Troika and Atari screwed up the QAing big time. Hence it got bashd when it was first relessed so people stopped buying it. Simple as that.

6. HuH? You bought it. Therefor eit counts. Returning it AFTER you bought it doesn't change the facts.

7. I never said you said it wasn't easy. Where did you read that? I stated that people stated over and over because Troika wa smaking it it would ahve awesome role-playing. I know this because I was at the opposite end of the argument. I know because I was looking forward to TOEE strictly due to the rules implemtnation, and combat but was ultimately let down due to bugs and easy combat. Otherwsie, I'd have liked the game for what it was.

 

[Vault Dweller]

...which is why I actually take you seriously

Please don't

Arcanum isn't complex compared to BG.

I beg to differ. BG is a linear game. Arcanum is not. BG doesn't have (m)any choices. Arcanum does. BG is a combat oriented game, as in one way of conflict resolution, Arcanum offers many ways. Same with char system. BG is simple, all characters must deliver max damage. Arcanum in addition to combat and spells offers persuasion, haggle, repair, schematics, etc. Not a rocket science, but more complex then a straight forward combat system.

If someone cannot understand some of the basics of DnD after reading a manual they shouldn't be playing it. Period.

I agree. But they do, and developers like Bio do take them into consideration. That's pretty much a fact.

Suffice it to say, that many people did say that. Whether Jedi Academy looked cool or not is irrelevant.

So, you reject my morons who say that Arcanum was too complex (btw, a friend sent me a link to some forums recently, where people bitched about complexity of PST, poor dumb bastards couldn't even get what the game was all about and why TNO doesn't die), but use your morons to prove that KOTOR's combat was cool? Not fair.

Yeah, the reasons are simple.

While your reasons have also contributed, there was a significant number of people who didn't get the rules and were turned off by the most faithful adaptation which proved once again that true DnD is not for mass market.

HuH? You bought it. Therefor eit counts. Returning it AFTER you bought it doesn't change the facts.

Ok, fine, have it your way. I bought it. It was a moment of weakness. Shame on me

I never said you said it wasn't easy.

I didn't say you said that. Easy there, I was agreeing with you that it was easy.

 

[Sheriff05]

Sigh.... I was really enjoying Rosh vs Gaider, but wouldn't you know lo' and fucking behold Volourn comes along and hijacks the god damn thread.
I am seriously wondering if he's on the Bioware payroll as some sort of message board disinformation specialist...

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You disliked BG1; but BG2 anyways.

You disliked BG2; but bought NWN anyways.

Actually, I didn't buy BG2. I tried the demo which came on the Dungeons & Dragons DVD which my wife bought. I thought I made that clear in my post.

You disliked NWN; but bought KOTOR anyways.

Despite the fact you claim to like KOTOR; your review and your constant negative posts about it show otherwise; you will probably buy the next BIO PC game.

That would depend on the game itself, whether or not I will be the one reviewing, and so on. Based on KotOR, I probably would buy it just to see what all they've learned between KotOR and whatever new PC game they make.

However, KotOR isn't without it's faults, and it has quite a few of them. You even say the combat system in it was horrible and have echoed several of my criticisms of the title.

Heck, I enjoy Sacred, but that game has gobs of faults as well, which I'll be pointing out in my review of that title as well. Just because you like a game doesn't mean you can't say there are problems in it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There are choices on many places.

In that case, I have no doubt that you would be able to name a few. This is not mock you or dismiss your examples, I'm simply curious what examples you'd pick and why. I checked the link and didn't see that many choices. Probably less then 10 in the entire game.

Are they as far-reaching, interesting or detailed as we'd like them to be, or as well done as in other games we like more? No. Hell no. But they're there, regardless

Then what would be the point? It's like commenting on Lionheart: Is the combat fun? No. But, it's there.

I recommend DSimpson's works.

I prefer HSimpson's works

 

[Volourn]

Sherriff: Stop whining. If I were on BIO's payroll; I'd be too busy spending my money on HOT chicks then wasting time here on the likes of you.

Sp: It's one thing to criticize parts of a game you happen to like; it's another tocriticize every part of it. I mean you bash KOTOR for its characters, combat, quests, good/evil ratings, story, and ties with KOTOR. See what I mean? That covers about everything so really how much of it can you like?

VD: 1. I take yous eriously in the sense that you make sense evenw hen I disagreee with you most of the time.

2. Please. Arcanum isn't more or less complex than BG. Only dummies would actually thnk that way.

3. And, it's also a fact, that Troika also takes morons into consideration. All companies do. They pretty much have no chocie if they wanna stay in business. If you don't think there are elemtns of TOEE or Arcanum that are "dumbed down" then you'd be wrong.

4. Life's no fair - espciially when I'm involved. My mian point here is that *all* games have their shair of morons playing them. That's irrelavnt. I'd say the eprcentage of morons who bought NWN are the same eprcentage of morons who bought TOEE therefore they're null and void. I don't know how annoyed I get when playing a PW on line and get asked a silly question.

5. True DnD is for the mass market depending what you mean by 'mass market'. Once again, TOEE didn't do as well as NWN becuase its rules were more indepth. That's just compleetly silly with no facts to back it up.

6. We're all weak once,a nd awhile. Well...e xcpet for me. :shock:

7.I nevers aid you weren't agreeing with me that it was easy. Where did I say I thoguht you were?

8. There ar emultittude of choices to be made in BIO games. How cna anyone who has played four of them not know that?

 

[Sheriff05]

5. True DnD is for the mass market depending what you mean by 'mass market'. Once again, TOEE didn't do as well as NWN becuase its rules were more indepth. That's just compleetly silly with no facts to back it up.

Guess you missed all those genius reviews that said "we love the translation of 3.5 rules" in the same sentence as the game is "needlessly complex". IN fact VD posted one of them here in the last week or so. Regardless I am forgeting that your definition of a "fact" is an opinion you agree with.

 

[Volourn]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Sherriff: Stop whining. If I were on BIO's payroll; I'd be too busy spending my money on HOT chicks then wasting time here on the likes of you.

What can change the nature of a geek? Definitely not money. Have you ever tried to talk to a Hot Chick about NWN?

Sp: It's one thing to criticize parts of a game you happen to like; it's another tocriticize every part of it. I mean you bash KOTOR for its characters, combat, quests, good/evil ratings, story, and ties with KOTOR. See what I mean? That covers about everything so really how much of it can you like?

The sound was alright. I like listening how them alien bastards talk

I take yous eriously in the sense that you make sense evenw hen I disagreee with you most of the time.

Let's disagree some more then

Please. Arcanum isn't more or less complex than BG. Only dummies would actually thnk that way.

And that's precisely who I was talking about: the dummies. Who do you think bought all those hundreds of thousand of BG copies? especailly the ToB copies.

And, it's also a fact, that Troika also takes morons into consideration.

Not as much as the other companies, otherwise ToEE would have been a real time game. Do you remember all the "turn-based DnD?! What's up with that?" interviews?

If you don't think there are elemtns of TOEE or Arcanum that are "dumbed down" then you'd be wrong.

Once again, compared to what? Games complexity, intelligence, and other stats don't make much sense on its own. I don't think that Arcanum is a pinnacle of the genre, yet it is when compared to other games. I don't think that Arcanum is very complex, yet it is one of the most complex RPGs I've played in the last 5 or 10 years. And so on.

I'd say the eprcentage of morons who bought NWN are the same eprcentage of morons who bought TOEE therefore they're null and void.

Disagree, but since neither one of us can prove his position here, it's not worth arguing about.

I don't know how annoyed I get when playing a PW on line and get asked a silly question.

Come on, share your stories with us.

True DnD is for the mass market depending what you mean by 'mass market'. Once again, TOEE didn't do as well as NWN becuase its rules were more indepth. That's just compleetly silly with no facts to back it up.

You want facts? I'll get you facts later on today (too busy now)

There ar emultittude of choices to be made in BIO games. How cna anyone who has played four of them not know that?

What choices? Or you mean the ones that mean nothing like those at the end of Deus Ex?

 

[Ortchel]

Dgaider, I'm new here, so you'll have to excuse me if this is all ancient knowledge to the rest of the forum, but how long have you been with Bioware, what games have you worked on etc? I'm interested, I was a long time member of the Bethesda (waits to be flamed into a molten crisp) forums and they virtually never popped up on their own forums let alone anyone else's.

 

[Volourn]

1. Sure. Sometimes it works; soemtimes it doesn't. Usually the latter.

2. LOL Alien talk in KOTOR gets repetive after awhile. Still, in a joking way, you proved my point. :twisted:

3. Disagreements are good.

4. Who do you think bought most of the 10s of thousand copies of Arcanum? Like you've pointed out repeatedly, the vast majority of peopel are morons so it stands to reason the majority of people who bought Arcanum are morons. :D

5. Since when is RT have anything to do with taking into consideirng morons? There are many morons who prefer turn based. TOEE - as evidenced - by all the in game rules screen - is geared towards morons. I mean talk about hand holding. None of BIO's games - this side of KOTOR - was so into hand holding as TOEE.

6. Check above. Saying Arcanum is one of the more complex RPGs in the last 5 or 10 years doesn't say much. Games simply aren't complex and they're so far more complex then the basic games of 15, or 20 years. Complexity is in the eye of the moron.

7. I can prove it. People ar emorons so 100% of the people who bought NWN are morons. 100% of the people who bought TOEE are morons. See? Really simple to prove. :twisted:

8. Nah. Wouldn't wanna bore ya with NWN stories.

9. Let me put it another way: TOEE is as much for mass market as NWN is. They both are geared towards the same audience - DnD geeks. This is just simply true. DnD geeks will buy thes egames if they are good (or percieved to eb good). All others who buy them are irrelavant.

10. Doesn't matter if they don't effect the ending. That was not what you said. The bottom line is there ar elots of chocies in BIO games. Lots. Their long time effects is a whole 'nother ball of spaghetti.

 

[Sheriff05]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Only the mentally stunted resort to lame-ass cliches.
I'd ask you post examples but considering there aren't any and your reading comprehension has been shown to be non-existent, it's pretty pointless.
VD, please continue the verbal disembowelment! .

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

In that case, I have no doubt that you would be able to name a few. This is not mock you or dismiss your examples, I'm simply curious what examples you'd pick and why. I checked the link and didn't see that many choices. Probably less then 10 in the entire game.

No doubt i can present them, however, what type of choices do you want? Quest solving choices? Main plotline choices? If its the former, then i can spend here days enumerating them, from Stronghold quests to the 'regular' ones.

If it's the later, i can readilly point to some. In Baldur's Gate 2 you have choices as to how you move trough the plot. Minimal in amount and converging, yes, but present. There's the choice of what guild you'd work for, Shadow Thieves or Vampires. There's the post-Spellhold spiel, where you can decide between going with Saemon Havarian or taking your chances with the Spellhold Portal. When you reach the Underdark you can help Adalon or kill her to escape. There's your decision regarding what part of yourself you'll give to the Demon in your Dream while in Spellhold. There are your decisions in Hell which alter yourself (unfortunately they were overly simplistic and skimped on Neutral options, and turning Evil was permanent ).

Then what would be the point? It's like commenting on Lionheart: Is the combat fun? No. But, it's there.

The point is in establishing a difference between saying there are no choices, and saying that there are, in fact, choices. That they aren't as good as we'd like, ot that they could be better, doesn't make them non-existant. In a similar fashion, i wouldn't say ToEE doesn't have roleplaying simply because the existant one is mediocre.

I prefer HSimpson's works

Despite that one of our television networks had reruns of it, I haven't seen that in a long time I miss 'D'oh!".

Incidentally shouldn't you be, like, not talking to me? Just curious.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Volourn, here are the facts I promised your earlier. Keep in mind that we;re talking about casual gamers here, not people like you and I.

GameSpot: As a result, if you don't already know enough about post-3rd Edition D&D .... then The Temple of Elemental Evil will be very difficult or even bewildering as you slog through the character-building process. ... The Temple of Elemental Evil is certainly skewed toward those who already know their way around a Dungeons & Dragons game.

For reference, GameSpot on NWN: Dungeons & Dragons is certainly a complex system-- nevertheless, the game does a fantastic job of getting you started. ...They might also be surprised to find that Neverwinter Nights is actually very accessible, much more so than most RPGs, making it equally recommendable to new players and to hard-core role-playing fans. Yet the latter group especially will appreciate Neverwinter Nights, since it includes not just an excellent stand-alone RPG

Wow, if you were a casual gamer who likes to play fantasy games after watching LotR, which game would you pick: the easily accessible one or the bewildering one?

Here is more:

GameSpy: Gamers who are unfamiliar with D&D are going to get lost in the litany of rules. I'm not just talking about knowing the difference between a cleric and a sorcerer. I'm talking about knowing what the heck to make of terms like "ready vs. approach," "improved initiative," "flat-footed," or "+1 on attack rolls." The complexity is great if that's what you want, but newcomers are going to be lost without reading at least parts of the voluminous manual or the ubiquitous in-game help screens.

Game Revolution:With such a strict attention to the rules, there's little that a novice player can do to fully understand everything that’s going on. ... The Temple of Elemental Evil gives no such forgiveness, forcing players to understand and use all the various nuances of combat. So in the end, what we have with The Temple of Elemental Evil is a good RPG brought down by the very thing it touted as a feature: complexit

ActionTrip: ... the problem is that there's a great deal of gamers out there that never bothered to research the intricate 3.5 AD&D rules. The fact is that during the game, newcomers will surely find themselves tangled up in a sea of RPG details

Netjack: Even if all these problems are fixed, the game will remain inaccessible to a wide audience of players. The designers tried to follow the 3.5 rules as closely as possible, which resulted into one of the steepest learning curves in the history of computer role-playing games. A person who grew up without playing the pen-and-paper version may find it very hard and frustrating to beat the game

GameOver: Troika seems to have decided to emulate the Dungeons & Dragons version 3.5 rules as closely as possible, without taking into account whether the rules make the game fun to play or not.

RealGamer: There is no doubt that fans of Dungeons and Dragons will find something to love in this game however newcomers to the genre may be put off by the games complex battle systems and confusing character development. A little more consideration for newcomers would have been appreciated but as it stands anyone who has not played this type of game before will probably spend more time reading the manual in frustration than actually playing the game.

So, do you think that may be these reviews influenced people a little bit? If you check respective NWN and the IE games' reviews, you'd see that people have less DnD related problem when it's real time. Why? Because 80% play it like Diablo, point, click, and cast some spells.

 

[Vault Dweller]

TOEE is as much for mass market as NWN is. They both are geared towards the same audience - DnD geeks. This is just simply true.

See my post above.

DnD geeks will buy thes egames if they are good (or percieved to eb good). All others who buy them are irrelavant.

It's the geeks and the fans who are the irrelevant ones for it's the casual gamers who make all the difference. There is a good reason why truly great games like PST, Fallout, Arcanum didn't become great hits. The morons didn't dig them.

Doesn't matter if they don't effect the ending.

Who said anything about the ending?

That was not what you said.

Trying to win on technicality? Technically, there are always choices: colours, character name, kill 'em all or spare this one, kill 'em with a sword or with an axe, etc. You know what I'm talking about.

The bottom line is there ar elots of chocies in BIO games. Lots. Their long time effects is a whole 'nother ball of spaghetti.

Who gives a damn about choices that change nothing? No, really? They are as pointless as stats that don't affect anything, for example.

 

[Vault Dweller]

No doubt i can present them, however, what type of choices do you want? Quest solving choices? Main plotline choices?

Whatever you picked is fine.

The point is in establishing a difference between saying there are no choices, and saying that there are, in fact, choices.

I meant a very specific thing: choices with consequences. They may not affect an entire game till the end, but they should make a difference. In many cases, you're simply picking whom to kill (Shadow Thieves or Vamps, Sahuagin King or Prince, Kuo-Toa or Mind Flayers, etc).

In a similar fashion, i wouldn't say ToEE doesn't have roleplaying simply because the existant one is mediocre.

That depends of the context. In Fallout/Arcanum sense, ToEE got none, in a dungeon crawler sense, it's loaded with it.

Incidentally shouldn't you be, like, not talking to me? Just curious.

Unfortunately, grudge-holding isn't one of my strongest sides. Besides, a good and entertaining debate, of which I'm fond, requires a person of opposite position.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Siding with the Shadow Thieves might allow you some future help from them to assault Bodhi (i believe that its a combination of siding with them and the PC's charisma). Siding with Bodhi, however, includes killing them, so its one less faction you can ask for help.

The Spellhold dream sequence also has a consequence, though it's minor as far reaching implications go (one of your statistics, except charisma, is lowered by one point and you gain in turn the option to turn into the Slayer).

Lets see, more choices with consequences... Helping Trademeet with the Genies will have market owners engage in commerce and trade again, otherwise they won't. Making bad choices regarding the management of the D'Arnise Keep can make you lose it. Deciding how to romance Aerie wil make her pregnant; deciding how to romance Viconia can change her alignment. Influencing Annoy-men the wrong way will make him change alignment, attitude and lose thechance of joining the Radiant Heart. How you handle the three kids asking for beer and swords in Imnesvale might jeopardize your maintenance of the Ranger stronghold. Helping Renal Bloodscalp with Mae'Var's assassination opens way to him giving you run of Mae'Var's guild, and if you take the chance, failing to pay your quotas to the guildmaster might jeopardize your ownership of it. You can also give orders to your thieves, and depending of what you tell them to do, you can gain different amounts of profit (and even risk have some of them caught by guards and thrown into jail, at which point you need to pay for their release). If you train your apprentices properly in the Planar Sphere, they'll survive and graduate, and one of them will return to it to and work for you (he sells potions every week); not a dramatic outcome, i know. You can also choose to defy the the Cowled Wizards by using unlicensed magic, or you can pay them 5,000 gold pieces to stop being warned by them that magic is illegal. There's also the afforementioned choices in Hell, which have long-lasting (usually permanent) consequences on your character. In ToB, if you save a wizard from Saraduh, he will appear later on in Amkethran. While not exactly the bestest consequence, having a relationship with one of the romanceable NPCs will have the consequence of them being kidnapped by Bodhi, and your only choice is to kill said NPC (o'course, you can always resurect them). Killing people on the streets will have the authorities hound you.

There are other choices with consequences; however, while in their vast majority they aren't as far-reaching as they were in, say, Arcanum or Fallout, they're still present. Hopefully Bioware will start including more of these.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Siding with Bodhi, however, includes killing them, so its one less faction you can ask for help.

You can't ask Bodhi for help either if you side with the thieves, so it's more of a "pick one faction and kill another" thing.

The Spellhold dream sequence also has a consequence, though it's minor as far reaching implications go (one of your statistics, except charisma, is lowered by one point and you gain in turn the option to turn into the Slayer).

It's not really a choice, as you just pick the least important for your class attribute and sacrifice it. It's not really a big deal for a fighter to sacrifice a charisma point especially when you have the ring of 18 charisma. I like how it was handled in PST: you have to give up one of your companions, and you don't have to do it if you lack what it takes to sell one. Now that was a choice.

Helping Trademeet with the Genies will have market owners engage in commerce and trade again, otherwise they won't.

Now that's an example that's had some potential, but since the loot was never a problem, the impact was lessened. Also, it was very likely that you'd deal with the genies anyway, so not much of an rp-choice involved here.

... about strongholds

That was actually nicely done, much better then in MW. Yet I wish that it had more effect on gameplay then a few isolated decisions here and there.

You can also choose to defy the the Cowled Wizards by using unlicensed magic, or you can pay them 5,000 gold pieces to stop being warned by them that magic is illegal.

Not much of a choice. The amount is too high to be a valid alternative, and there are no consequences for defying the wizards. They show up, you kill them if you can. Save the money, and get some loot.

There's also the afforementioned choices in Hell, which have long-lasting (usually permanent) consequences on your character.

Isn't that just before the final battle? KInda silly to play the entire game as good and have your alignment changed in the end. Pointless too.

So, technically you and Volourn are correct, there were choices. Most of them involved choosing whom you'd have to kill. The consequences if any didn't last for more then a minute game-time, making them non-existent. Alignment changes of your party members of course were long lasting, but unfortunately they too failed to affect the gameplay. Does it really matter if one of your party members changes his/her alignment? Not really. It doesn't open any previously closed doors, etc. It would have been cool if there was a good-only faction in the game, and you could manipulate one of your evil party members changing fool's alignment and using him/her to be admitted to the faction.