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KickStarter Black Geyser, a brand-new RTwP RPG

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by GreenMagicSpell, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. Mustawd Self-Ejected

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    Click here and disable ads!

    Sure. But my point was that it can be done well. Now, whether or not that takes up valuable resources for a small studio, especially given Spiderweb's own issues in keeping up with iOS updates, is a separate matter.
     
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  2. GreenMagicSpell Educated

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    I get you. Since that older post of mine is still waiting approval, I'll copy the key points here:

    Before I came to this forum, the devs asked me to send summarized points. This is what I plan to send them:

    "Based on RPGCodex feedback:
    - Present the unique features in a much more visible manner
    - Get a better writer (for dialogues etc.)
    - Consider dropping mobile support for now - it may frighten away potential fans at this point
    - Don't show fan-made/draft concepts at all"

    Regarding gameplay videos and ruleset/lore specifics, these will be definitely available by the time they launch a Kickstarter (I know this for sure).
     
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  3. CyberWhale Arcane

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    This will probably end up like another ambitious indie cRPG known as The Dark Triad - i.e. vaporware.
     
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  4. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    And pick only one or a few that really matter, differentiate the project form the competition.

    And always think about what you want to show with a specific dialogue / content example. Remember that creating "another fantasy world" isn't a great feat, we all did that during boring classes.

    It risks influencing the mechanics / UI in a bad way and supporting too many platforms might mean biting off more than a small team can chew on its first project.

    Unless they show something important. Random monster doodle mostly won't.

    And tell them:

     
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  5. GreenMagicSpell Educated

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    That's the Xurxur Beast from the story, but since their concept artist didn't have the time yet, they added a fan-made (actually friend-made) concept instead. So it's not really random, it belongs to the history of Isilmerald and Yerengal.
     
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  6. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    I actually like the drawing, but still find it hard to get interested, when reading about a "Xurxur beast" and "Isilmerald and Yerengal". The beast is also banished at the bottom off the sea (not in the drawing though!) and doesn't play a role in the story on the website, other than it's gone for good. Well, you can guess that the second mission of the courier will be to free the beast, but right now, it would be better a mysterious power. Illustrate the story with the results of the couriers doing, show discord. (Also the courier story reminds me of this.)

    I think the whole world and setting (including all the names) can take a backseat to the gameplay affecting things.
     
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  7. Grokalibre Learned

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    Tell your dev friends to avoid shit names. For instance, if there are ghouls in the game, call them ghouls, not "wtfzibur'lekvlaaar" for the sake of trying to be original.
    A lot of games make that mistake, instead of saying "the mayor is in meeting with the sheriff and his deputies", they'll go for something like "The Grandvigormalath summoned a Yyrborivlg with the Merianavlele and the Ebolagaymen".
     
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  8. GreenMagicSpell Educated

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    What is wrong with the name Isilmerald and Yerengal? I actually liked most names in this game.

    I think the Xurxur beast is being banished on the drawing, this is why it's captured via chains -- but it's not clear indeed. (Well, fan-made art.)
     
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  9. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Nothing is wrong with them. But you want to sell a game, not a world. No one who should support that on Kickstarter will care about the names at first. You have to hook the reader with something different than a TL;DR with exotic names, he forgets after the next paragraph. They'll come to life (hopefully) during the game. That's why I actually think the greed intro is a good starting point, because the reader can relate to that without putting too much effort in it. That's why I also think the spell name list on the first page doesn't help. "Theatre of Purple Shades" is like the "Xurxur beast" nothing I can relate to. Divinity: Original Sin showed what you can achieve with clever combination of their spells, they didn't list the names of their spells.
     
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  10. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Serpent in the Staglands Torment: Tides of Numenera
    It's not necessarily that the name or the beast or whatever is bad. It's about the presentation.

    For the developer, the Xurxur Beast already means as much as the Balrog or Batman. It means something to hear its name and to see it in action. For me, it means about as much as "Garble MacGarble". If I at least knew something interesting about this beast (and no, not "it devours worlds" or whatever), and/or if the drawing was impressive and beautiful in and of itself, it would be fine. I know as a small indie project getting good art is difficult, so that's not necessarily what I would demand as a potential backer. I would, however, question the competence of a team if the KS presents itself the way this website does.

    On the other hand, take those details about Put Silently (another bad name, by the way). That's exciting, because there's some concrete details about how you could use that skill and how you can have a pretty unique and exciting kind of gameplay not often seen in other CRPGs. (That is, if the example of framing someone for theft is a real one, instead of a made up hypothetical thing). That detail alone makes the game more memorable than Xurxur and Yabadabadoo etc etc at this stage.
     
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  11. Perkel Arcane

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    Add to that:

    - do proper budget transparency, show people behind it with their exp. Asking for XXX amount of money without that will raise question and turn on scam alert on people. Once that will happen you will be playing ball of who your are and who you aren't. Backers will keep digging info about you and if they won't like it they will tell other people about it and post things to avoid your kickstarter.
    Dude with experience in IT even if he didn't do any game is worth a lot more than TRUST US !. Even finished schools will be good idea to post.
    - proper hook on game systems. Why combat in game will be fun and try to visualize it.
    - proper game visualization. How story starts, why people start their journey and what drives them, what player will be doing in game.
    - milestones. When you expect finishing it, when you expect alpha, when you expect things to be assembled


    As for writter part. Like someone here said some names are stupid BUT game writter is the one making shots here. Just because something is called Purple Inn doesn't mean there is nothing behind that name that could be interesting (why purple?). Problem starts when you have shitty names for everything. You are dwelling then in 12 years old retardo land.

    Same with everything else. IF you fallow human history names started as something usually description of something and then evolved.
    Just calling something Rowardit'sa doesn't make it interesting without context "why". If you give "why" context then name could work.

    Example

    Rowardit'sa mentioned earlier. We have some tribe and that name is used for harbor. Roward it that tribe language means literally harbor and it'sa is short for their "fucking" and that slur kit'sa (full slur) is used in game often so players could connect dots that this name has something to do with fucking xxxx. It is a harbor then probably fucking harbor since people living here actually don't like this place much. Bonus points if there was earlier actual given name to that place officially but locals didn't bother to use it and they will tell you at some point about it.

    If you look at our world it is full of shitty names for places. It's "why" component makes them valid not name itself.

    edit:

    like poster above said Y-something don't mean anything to me. You need to tell me why it is named like that and what it represents.

    example:

    Planescape. In it's name it has main hook. It's multiverse with planes and you can visit other planes. Sound dumb when you think about name itself but with context it is cool name.
     
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  12. GreenMagicSpell Educated

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    The posts above confirm my suspicioun that they need a better writer.

    Regarding your comments on project transparency and visualization (video), I couldn't agree more. As I've written in an earlier post, they know that these are crucial for a successful Kickstarter campaign, but I've added them to my list anyway. Thanks again for feedback.
     
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  13. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

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    The ingame screenshot ob the page looks lovely! These are just awesome, 'innocent' graphics. I approve
     
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  14. GreenMagicSpell Educated

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    Well, graphics are one of the reasons I believe this project can return the atmosphere of Baldur's Gate to me.

    Someone mentioned Dark Triad before in this topic -- the reason I eventually didn't support that project was their poor graphics (IMO).
     
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  15. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    I forgot about that. Yes, the house/cart/people/trees shot is nice, and that's what should be front and center.
     
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  16. Outlander Custom Tags Are For Fags. Patron

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. pakoito Arcane

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    >Black Geyser

    You have to pay extra for this stuff in Amsterdam.
     
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  18. Perkel Arcane

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    Yeah i also think name of the game is a bit unfortunate UNLESS it has some proper reason behind it.
    People will either think that this is some porn or some discussion about some twitter feed of some gay dude.
     
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  19. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

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    GreenMagicSpell , this game needs better writers. Tell your friends to hire me, it'll improve the writing by 200%.

    I'm actually serious about this offer.
     
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  20. Scrooge ⦅❛◡❛ॣॣ⦆*.・。╟╢ᎯƤƤᎽ*.・。 Patron

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    Codex 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    The most important question of all tho:

    Will it have combat xp?
     
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  21. GreenMagicSpell Educated

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    Yes. Quoting their FAQ:
    Their team is burdened much with work, AFAIK they're still hiring. I'll talk to them about it. Until then, could you show some relevant references? Something which can be checked immediately, without having to sign up anywhere etc.
     
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  22. Sranchammer Arcane

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    He has a thread highlighting his many talents in GD
     
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  23. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    They need *a* writer. They don't have one yet.

    Overall, this whole things looks very silly, from the ridiculous endorsement quote by a marketing specialist to the 'all platforms!' thing which "makes sense, rite?" and 'gib us $20 and get the game for free!' It creates a strong 'we don't really know what we're doing' vibe as others have noted. Having races like Fjeldegug or 'Devil God' doesn't help.

    On the plus side, the screen looks absolutely magnificent.

    Also, when you (er, I mean your 'friends') post something on the website, ask yourself what you hope to achieve by sharing it. Exhibit A:

    That's it? You made me click on 'teaser dialogue' to read two awful lines?

    Anyway...

    a) Welcome to the Codex
    b) Unless you ask for a few hundred bucks, your KS will fail, so you have a choice to make. Either continue role-playing Titanic heading for that iceberg or take another look at the game and realize that at least half of it is shit, which brings us to my earlier point - welcome to the Codex.

    If you can put your feelings aside, we can help you improve what's good about the game and get rid of the stupid shit. Show us what you have (no, nobody's going to steal your ideas because they are a dime a dozen) and walk us through your character and combat systems.

    PS. RT is shit, it HAS to go.
     
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  24. Perkel Arcane

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    Like VD said, drop your emotions prepare your anus for hard criticism and maybe something good will come out of this.
    Right now it feels like "i don't know what i am doing"

    As of Real Time combat many people here aren't fans of that because almost no RT game combat is actually challenging and interesting to play and it creates problems in design like trash filler combat. Either you have plan for RT or you wish for intersting combat which means you don't have a plan how to do fun combat system.
     
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  25. GreenMagicSpell Educated

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    Actually, statements such as this doesn't help as long as you don't provide some reasoning. IMO statements without reasoning are fully OK (freedom of speech and all), but for me, they are shit. On the other hand, if you said "half of the game is shit, BECAUSE..<long list>.", that would make a difference. Others have done it already in this thread (many thanks to them), so I suggest you follow their example if you truly want to help. Thanks. (Hints: what's wrong with "Devil God"? What's wrong Fjeldegug? You brought it up. :))

    FYI, I talked to the webmaster today. That website poll is currently at $8810 (and, surprise! Most of it are $20 votes! The other half is either "no money, but spread word", or $10). Few hundred bucks, right? :D And remember, they haven't even shown a running version/prototype video.

    And yeah, I won't drop my emotions, I'm not their official marketing guy, I don't need to watch my words. I like what Black geyser: The Courier promises, I want to help them (as a fan and as a friend too). If you write genuine feedback, then it won't depend on my person. Whether I'm a paid troll or a genuine fan really doesn't make Black Geyser good or bad. Live with it.

    Keep writing guys, I keep analyzing your feedback.
     
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