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Blizzard announced "Classic" World of Warcraft

Discussion in 'MMO(RP)G / Online Discussion' started by Lacrymas, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
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    AQ and naxx are both more braindead than the modern mythic dungeon though.
     
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  2. cw8 Arbiter

    cw8
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    Why compare them to the modern mythics. They are specifically catered for the hardcore who still have time to wipe 300+ times. Whereas AQ and Naxx are simply just the next tier dungeons in vanilla. That said we didn't have an easy time in MC, BWL, AQ40, or Naxx, we didn't even finish Naxx. Might be because we were much more horrible players back then, or hoping all the 33-40 players actually moved properly or contributed, or the 200ms lag we have to fight with every second. Retail WoW raids definitely do have more mechanics, but the raids up to heroic are very much doable in a pug. Player mentalities have changed now I guess, classic WoW raids are puggable now whereas in the past it was impossible.
     
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  3. Ninjerk Arcane

    Ninjerk
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    So Ravager took me over 60 runs to get, but Blackstone Ring only took me 1 run to get. Cheers, classic!
     
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  4. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
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    What % of players even raided in vanilla? Very small number I bet.
     
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  5. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Small, but MC + Onyxia should be doable by almost everyone now given how accessible they are.
     
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  6. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
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    I'm not sure that the majority, that is, the casual player base, will even try. Have you noticed how fucking obsessed everyone is with this bis shit? Raiders are following those loot lists obsessively, doing dozens of dungeon runs to get something with a 4% drop chance because it's bis for this phase of the endgame, but none are even bothering with their tier 0 sets.
     
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  7. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Many casuals already did MC at the tail end of Vanilla when pugging MC and Onyxia became a thing. I don't see why that wouldn't be the case now. Indeed, I see many people organizing pug raids for more casual minded players who don't want to join a HC raiding guild with commitments on all 4 of the servers that I have played/dabbled on in Classic.
     
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  8. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Alright, time for another hot take post. This is partially inspired by Kem0sabe bringing up how people obsess over BiS far more now than they did in Vanilla, a sentiment that I agree with. All my friends are AFK and I don't feel like doing dungs with randos so here we go.

    Night Elf Priests aren't a bad choice. OK, Elune's Grace is pretty lame (it would be better if it lasted longer than 15s. 30s for 10% increased dodge chance would already be decent-ish), but Starshards isn't all that bad. Consider these points in favor of Starshards, the NE Priest racial spell:

    -It's very mana efficient, only costing 300 mana to cast at max rank, versus Devouring Plague which is a whopping 985 mana.
    -Only the first tick counts as a spell cast, which means that the 5 second regen rule kicks in after that tick, making it ever so slightly more mana efficient.
    -It scales well with spell power, gaining 100% of your spell power from gear, so it can end up doing some nice damage.
    -Each tick counts as an interrupt, so it pushes enemy cast bars each time it hits the enemy.
    -It's an Arcane spell, the only one a Priest has. You can use it to bait people into interrupting you and they'll be screwed pretty hard if they do.
    -Because it's Arcane it can be cast in Shadowform, and because it scales so well with gear it can also be valuable for Holy specced Priests when grinding mobs.
    -It looks cool.

    -As an extra point, it gets turned into a DoT in TBC, if we ever get to TBC in Classic. You lose on the interrupt + bait aspect, but having access to an extra DoT that can also be used consistently in PvE without wrecking your mana pool is no small thing to poopoo at.
     
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  9. Wilian Arcane Patron

    Wilian
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    Divinity: Original Sin
    Some 10% of all max levels ever entered to a raid and the amount of max levels from pool of population was less than 20%. 90% of who played quit the game before reaching level 10. Do the math.
     
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  10. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
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    WoW Classic Phase 2 Coming in Late 2019
    Show Spoiler


    EU Classic Realms Layering Update - 6 Realms on a Single Layer

    Show Spoiler


    NA Classic Realms Layering Update
    Show Spoiler
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  11. Cyberarmy Love fool Patron

    Cyberarmy
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    I dodged the the bullet and didn't started this. I'm a big boy now.

    Show Spoiler
    Now I'll just go and play Destiny 2 ...
     
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  12. hivemind Arbiter Patron Pretty Princess

    hivemind
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    missing out
     
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  13. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Dire Maul removed from phase 2 and will be released next week instead.

    Edit: first month ended and the subs probably started to plummet because of a lack of real content so they are going to release the content earlier than they had hoped. At least that's my educated guess.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  14. Absinthe Prophet

    Absinthe
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    A lot changes in Allliance vs Horde for Rogue matchups. For instance, Horde Rogues have to PvP against Dwarves with Stoneform, which makes Blind worthless (especially annoying if someone also uses a Free Action Potion to become stun immune). Alliance Rogues get to PvP against Orcs with Stun Resistance, which unpredictably screws over stunlocks. Horde Rogues get to go up against Night Elf Druids. Alliance Rogues get to go up against Tauren Druids, which are a lot more powerful, because they can do extra shit like War Stomp -> Regrowth/Entangling Roots and have 5% more health unlike NElf Druids which just get +1% dodge and +5 stealth rating. Alliance Rogues are also more likely to deal with Warlocks using Succubus pets (Seduction is a charm effect, not a fear effect, so all you have is your PvP trinket against that). Alliance Rogues go up against Horde Priests with Devouring Plague (which is a joke if you have Stoneform)+Touch of Weakness or Troll Priests with Shadowguard and Hex of Weakness. Horde Rogues go up against Alliance Priests which have Desperate Prayer and Stoneform (which are especially a joke if you have Will of the Forsaken). On the other hand Horde Mages are more manageable for Gnome Rogues than Alliance Mages are for Orc or Undead Rogues, but if you're using Free Action Potions, Living Action Potions, Improved Sprint, and Spider Belt you probably don't give a shit. In group PvP, Alliance Rogues are more likely to get Feared but can also receive Blessing of Freedom (which can get purged by Shamans or devoured by Felhunters) or Blessing of Kings. On Horde the Rogue could be Undead, and there is probably a Shaman dropping Tremor Totems, Windfury Totems, and the occasional Grounding Totem.

    Generally Horde has it better for PvP, especially at the upper tiers of skill where Paladin blessings get purged on a regular basis. Windfury Totem is just crazy for Rogues in group PvP and even the 1v1 matchups tend to be a bit easier.

    Undead frees up a trinket slot and works well against Warlocks, Priests, and Warriors (Intimidating Shout). Orc Hardiness works well against Rogues, Warriors, and Paladins for the most part, but can also come in handy against Impact procs from Mages, Blackout procs from Shadow Priests, and Tidal Charm trinkets or Engineering grenades.

    Engineering bonus hardly matters unless you love using Arcanite Dragonling or you're doing twink PvP where the racial lets you use items that should not be available in your level bracket. Escape Artist is useful but it still runs into the problem that most slows are spammable. Escaping snares is valuable though.

    Stoneform is probably the best racial for Rogues unless you really hate Mages, but if you're being an asshole 1v1 ganker you can stack up a frost resist set more easily as a Dwarf if you want.

    Perception is worthless in world PvP, because it's a massive cooldown that is only useful if you already know a Rogue is nearby and the Rogue is stealthed and the Rogue isn't using Vanish and you don't have some other aoe or instant DoT or shit to knock him out of stealth. It comes in handy if a Rogue dismounts and stealths, sure, but otherwise not really. Most of the time, if you want an anti-Rogue racial as Alliance, you want to be a Dwarf, not a Human. Humans are pretty much trash for PvP. In BGs it's a bit more useful sure.

    Also, just so you know, if a Hunter uses Detect Hidden while in a party with a Warlock that uses Felhunter, the Hunter has +60 stealth detection total. A Hunter with Bloodvine Lens has +40 stealth detection with just Detect Hidden. If a Warlock equips Catseye Goggles and uses a Felhunter, he has 48 stealth detection, almost the same as a Human activating Perception. Nothing is stopping Hunters from using Catseye Goggles (and/or Catseye Elixirs) either. It's not that hard for Horde to get high stealth detection.

    Night Elf is a total fucking shit pick for Rogues. +5 stealth and a slightly higher base agi is cute, but it is nowhere near as good as having a racial that is actually fucking useful for PvP. Worst case scenario you can pre-Vanish, but most of the time just circling around the back and 5/5 MoD is enough. You can even pre-Sprint if you feel like it. You can throw on a Cloak Enchant and/or +Stealth boots if you really want and it is typically more than enough if you're worried about being spotted. The extra 5 stealth from being a NElf in no way makes or breaks a stealth attempt. The closest you get to a neat trick is that if you have Shadowmeld, stealth boots, and a stealth enchant, you can probably just skip the 5/5 MoD and put those talent points elsewhere.

    The thing is, Glimmering Mithril Insignia is a 10 minute cooldown, PvP trinket is a 5 minute cooldown, and so is the Shadow Reflector. In BGs having an extra 2 min CD to resist Fears is a lot more useful. When it comes to Warlocks being UD also makes the difference between Succubus being a viable PvP pet against you or not.

    Elune's Grace is pretty bad tbh. Not only is the duration shit but if you dodge a Warrior he will instantly Overpower you for what will probably be a crit. And over the course of 15 seconds your odds are still low of successfully dodging a single attack from 'em. Now a Rogue on the other hand you're much more likely to at least dodge something while it's active. Factoring in the racial you get +11% dodge total, not enough to make a major difference, unless you are doing weird shit like using rings/enchants/trinkets with dodge on them.

    That's a retarded comparison. They fulfill entirely different niches. Starshards competes with things like wanding, smiting, and mind flay. Devouring Plague is an extra DoT on top of your regular DoTs for more damage that also heals you for large amounts of life.

    The 5 second rule only cares about when you spend mana, not when you cast spells. If you can cast spells for free or for health (ie. Life Tap) you will still have the 5 second rule. This also means that if you cast a 3 second spell, you will continue to regenerate mana until you finish the spellcast (which is when you lose mana). But sure, you can use Starshards with Power Word: Shield to keep the 5 second rule going.

    The scaling is shit. It gets 100% of spell damage, but splits it over 6 seconds' worth of ticks (by contrast a regular spell does 100% of damage at 3.5 seconds of casting), so you only get 16.6666...% of spell damage per second. By contrast spamming smites wthout talents gives you 28.4% and Mind Flay (with its awful custom coefficient) with full Shadow talents does around 21.8% spell damage per second.

    This is actually useful, yes.

    Burning interrupts on Starshards is one of the most retarded things a player can do. If someone does this, you are PvPing a fucking noob and you should be winning anyway.

    Starshards does worse damage than Mind Flay in Shadowform. Hell, if you have Shadowform, it does worse damage than Mind Flay even outside of Shadowform.

    Because in TBC they finally redid the NElf racial spells to be less shit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  15. Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Jasede
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    You pulled that straight out of your ass; not only were the first two months (subs and resubs after 1 month of classic) good enough to get close to (but not quite) the money they made with BFA launch (and that's an official number!), all the servers in Europe are still basically Full. You made that up based on your gut-feeling and nothing else.
     
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  16. Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez Arcane

    Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez
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    This is something that would be worth considering if Rogues had Shiv. Not using dual Crippling Poison in general PVP or Crippling/Mind Numbing is going to come back to haunt the Rogue more than not and the theoretical DPS increase from Windfury is much better put to use in a practical situation like PVE than needing to rely on other people to keep some sort of consistent snare up.

    Hardiness is great, when RNG puts it into your favor. If it doesn't happen though, then it simply doesn't happen. The problem with Hardiness is it comes down to chance. If you're me and doomed by God you'll see it proc when you didn't really need it to and see it take a vacation when it would've come in clutch. Compare that to something like Stoneform or Escape Artist which will always work no matter what. They're a direct counter to whatever effect they stop while Hardiness has a 25% chance to stop a 6 point Kidney Shot and a 75% chance to make you eat shit. Hardiness is cool though if you have a class like Warrior who can talent into resisting stuns even more so it can stack up but from a Rogue player standpoint I think it's good but impractical.

    Hard disagree. Human Rogue should only lose a 1v1 with another Rogue if Orc's Hardiness racial comes in hot or they duel a Dwarf (without factoring in consumables and purely innate racials/abilities). Perception is such a cunt racial and it'll become even better when it comes to BGs like AB/WSG which will make Humans extremely good at jacking bases or landing CC on defending Rogues in the EFR.

    Believe it or not, it does play a factor because it's increasing your player level by 1 when you're in stealth. Consider how even if you have 5/5 MOD, if you're green to another player you're simply easier to see but think of NE in a stealth set as being red leveled. There is still a chance to find them if you do things like pre-Vanish or stack as many stealth detect effects as possible, but the fact they can do the same and be five player levels above you while doing so cancels it out in their favor. If an enemy Horde Rogue tries to stealth vs. stealth against a NE and the enemy Rogue is relying purely on their stealth with no trickery to catch them, they'll get bodied every time. Now I'm not saying NE is god tier in secret, I do agree that Dwarf is the best Rogue PVP race but an NE Rogue building off the strength that they can be a total pain in the ass and force players to approach them completely differently is nowhere near useless.

    You should be alternating between trinkets in PVP, World or BGs, regardless. GMI could be a one hour cooldown, a 30 second immunity to Fear is ridiculous. It keeps you completely glued to a Priest or Warlock (after Death Coil) and given Vanilla's high burst nature, that is in many cases overkill.
     
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  17. Dawkinsfan69 Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

    Dawkinsfan69
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    the amount of autistic over-analysis of such a garbage game amazes me holy shit
     
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  18. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    So why release Dire Maul earlier than planned, then? Do you truly believe that it's because Blizzard was feeling charitable? Get real. And no, all the euro servers are not "basically full". Maybe meme servers like Gehennas still have a que, bust most servs don't and even have had their layers trimmed down / removed entirely because the populations have been scaled down to a more reasonable level.
     
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  19. Ninjerk Arcane

    Ninjerk
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    Gehennas' queue has been inconsistent. Last week it was between 1k-2k and then on Saturday or Sunday the queue was suddenly back up to 4k+. Although I can say I don't pay special attention to the population status of the other European servers, the ones that populate beneath Gehennas for me seem to still be routinely "Full" status (although I did log on to Firemaw once without a queue even though it was reportedly "Full").

    In other news, it's amazing the items you will find out about in this game after so many years. I knew about Spider Belt, but never about Ornate Mithril boots. I can't wait to get a pair.
     
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  20. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    I don't think there has been a giant retention of players in a biblical scale either, but I do believe that Blizzard has looked at the numbers and seen that player engagement at level 60 has plummeted, and so they decided to release Dire Maul earlier to keep those level 60s logging in. People who are still leveling up are fine.
     
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  21. Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez Arcane

    Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez
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    If you're clearing MC/Ony regularly is DM even going to be worth it for you? I'm struggling to remember what that place drops beyond some hit trinkets, a cool dagger rogue belt, and the Warlock mount quest.
     
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  22. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    DM will be good for players like me yet to be 60 and our ilk, but you're right about all these raiders wanting more content.

    I think Bliz underestimated how quickly people would blow through shit.
     
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  23. Daedalos Arcane The Real Fanboy

    Daedalos
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    DM will have shit like new water for mages, new enchants that all casetrs need and such. There's a few items that you can't get from raids from DM atm, so yea it will be worth.

    Not to mention, that most ppl farm DM for crazy money
     
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  24. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Not to mention that Dire Maul is fun.
     
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  25. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    I found the work through to unlock each segment annoying.

    There was more to it... wasn't there faction to gain too? I vaguely recall that. Factioning annoys the hell out of me in wow.
     
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