Interview Brian Fargo Interview and Career Retrospective at Polygon

[throwaway]

Apparently, since the end of the Kickstarter, Obsidian has gotten an additional 40,000-50,000 backers or so. No Steam. That's not Star Citizen numbers but it's pretty impressive.

Not to be a PITA but where did you get that?

 

[Infinitron]

Apparently, since the end of the Kickstarter, Obsidian has gotten an additional 40,000-50,000 backers or so. No Steam. That's not Star Citizen numbers but it's pretty impressive.

Not to be a PITA but where did you get that?

http://stevivor.com/2014/04/obsidia...ars-eternity-partnership-paradox-interactive/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...project-eternity.75947/page-1152#post-3219021

 

[Vault Dweller]

Marketing is what makes shit sell. When it comes to sales, it is the most important factor, so I'm surprised why you find this notion simplistic.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-24-brian-fargo-backers-say-just-get-it-right

The change for InXile is interesting as it becomes a publisher in the new digital distribution age. "You barely need marketing because word of mouth is everything these days," Fargo pointed out. "And your sales force is your backers."

Is that why Fargo did a shitload of interviews? Because marketing is dead and all you need is word of mouth?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Let's stop and look at the facts here for a second. You have two game developers. One of them is a 30-man outfit currently producing two turn-based RPGs, including a turn-based Torment. The other is an 100+ employees mid-tier console developer producing a "real time with elves" fantasy RPG.

Vault Dweller appears to sincerely believe that the former are vaguely sinister super salesmen taking money they probably don't deserve, while the latter are inept nice guy awkward geeks (just like us!) who deserve to catch a break. He doesn't seem to realize that the fact that he feels that way means that Obsidian's "marketing campaign" is working its magic...on him.

Where did I claim that Fargo is sinister or that he got money he doesn't deserve? Fargo is good at selling. He hit all the right buttons during his KS campaigns and played all the cards, including "fuck the publishers", extremely well. I'm not sure why you feel that I'd have a problem with that.

My point is very, very simple. Fargo is good at hyping and selling. Obsidian isn't. Thus, it's likely that WL2 can outsell PE despite all the elves and shit. As for Obsidian and its marketing magic, I don't see any. The reason I'm excited about PE is because Obsidian made several really good RPGs in the past and they have the talent, knowledge, and experience to make another gem. Not because they sold me on it.

 

[Infinitron]

As for Obsidian and its marketing magic, I don't see any.

Then you need to examine the evidence.

You say Fargo did a shitload of interviews. Perhaps you missed that period a few months ago where Chris Avellone was doing a shitload of interviews and podcasts, or the current period where Josh Sawyer is interviewing lots.

The Codex has a tags system, so feel free to use it. We can even build a statistical model of "hype over time".

PoE: http://www.rpgcodex.net/tags.php?id=1038
WL2: http://www.rpgcodex.net/tags.php?id=47

 

[Vault Dweller]

Quantity vs [marketing] quality. An interview is an opportunity to spread your message, like a free ad, basically. I hope you'll agree that there are good ads, average ads, and bad ads. I also hope that you don't think Bethesda and Bioware games sell a lot because they are so awesome or have great graphics.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't know what you're trying to say now.

There's no point in continuing this discussion. We'll wait until Pillars of Eternity reaches Early Access and count the number of days in stays in the top 10. And then we'll see who gets to "I told you so" who.

 

[Athelas]

Then you need to examine the evidence.

You say Fargo did a shitload of interviews. Perhaps you missed that period a few months ago where Chris Avellone was doing a shitload of interviews and podcasts, or the current period where Josh Sawyer is interviewing lots.

The Codex has a tags system, so feel free to use it. We can even build a statistical model of "hype over time".

PoE: http://www.rpgcodex.net/tags.php?id=1038
WL2: http://www.rpgcodex.net/tags.php?id=47

You really don't see a difference between the way Obsidian and InXile give interviews to the press? For instance, this latest interview by Fargo practically screams 'give this guy a lifetime achievement award'.

 

[Infinitron]

You really don't see a difference between the way Obsidian and InXile give interviews to the press? For instance, this latest interview by Fargo practically screams 'give this guy a lifetime achievement award'.

And what would you call this? http://kotaku.com/5968952/the-knigh...e-some-of-the-coolest-role-playing-games-ever

Same type of thing.

 

[Athelas]

You really don't see a difference between the way Obsidian and InXile give interviews to the press? For instance, this latest interview by Fargo practically screams 'give this guy a lifetime achievement award'.

And what would you call this? http://kotaku.com/5968952/the-knigh...e-some-of-the-coolest-role-playing-games-ever

Polygon, Kotaku. Same deal.

The difference being that that article is about actual games Obsidian has made or had in development. The article also doesn't shy away from criticism ('New Vegas was unforgivable') and the insight Feargus gives into their bug-tracking system is somewhat embarassing.

By contrast, Fargo's interviews (not just this one) always center on some simple, but highly effective hype-generating buzzwords. 'Those evil publishers', 'unprecendented reactivity', etc. He's simply a lot better at spreading hype and positivity.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Precisely. Exhibit A:

GS: What grade do you give yourself on the project? Are you pleased with the final game?

BF: I could not be happier with the final product we created. I'm probably more pleased with this game than any I have worked on in my career. The game is incredibly rich with charm and personality. I don't think I could have made this game 10 years ago, since I didn't have enough real-world experience under my belt to draw upon.

We created a game that excels in several areas. The first are the traditional RPG areas like combat and inventory management, because the new game makes serious strides over its predecessors. It also breaks entirely new ground across all genres in the area of humor, because in our game it's pervasive, while in other games it's an afterthought, if it's there at all.
...

He doesn't explain anything, doesn't talk about some design aspects, but uses every sentence to hammer the message: this game is awesome, best game I've ever worked on (better than Fallout!), game I couldn't have made before because there were no tools to process raw awesome in such vast quantities.

He's talking about Bard's Tales, btw.

 

[Infinitron]

Now you're moving the goal posts.

By contrast, Fargo's interviews (not just this one) always center on some simple, but highly effective hype-generating buzzwords. 'Those evil publishers', 'unprecendented reactivity', etc.

I did say that Obsidian doesn't have that sort of mantra, didn't I? I just don't think it matters. They're taken a different strategy.

He's simply a lot better at spreading hype and positivity.

And yet even with all that hype, and all the butthurt the WL2 alpha-ish beta has produced, our Pillars of Eternity thread has no rivals in size. Obsidian has spread plenty of hype - it's just not the kind of hype that's easy to put your finger on and label.

We could try to verify this, btw. Go to a bunch of other gaming forums and see what game people are talking about more. Not that that would necessarily mean that game would sell more, mind you. There are more people out there than those who read and post on Internet forums.

 

[Rake]

And yet even with all that hype, and all the butthurt the WL2 alpha-ish beta has produced, our Pillars of Eternity thread has no rivals in size. Obsidian has spread plenty of hype - it's just not the kind of hype that's easy to put your finger on and label.

Codex are not casuals. And no matter what we say, the game that will capture more "new age" gamers grown up with DA, ME and TES (new ones) as their RPGs, this game will be a success.

Spoiler

And Sawyer knows that, hence the more casual, antignognard direction

 

[ZagorTeNej]

And yet even with all that hype, and all the butthurt the WL2 alpha-ish beta has produced, our Pillars of Eternity thread has no rivals in size. Obsidian has spread plenty of hype - it's just not the kind of hype that's easy to put your finger on and label.

Yes, but you have to consider the fact that a good chunk of Codex loved Obsidian even before the kickstarter (and not just because they saw it as a potential Black Isle successor), Fallout: New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer and even Kotor 2 are pretty popular games around here (heck even Alpha Protocol has a following). On the other hand how many Codexers like Bard's Tale remake and Demon Forge (or whatever it's called)? Obsidian has a good developer pedigree and bunch of ex-Black Isle developers, InXile has Brian Fargo (who was mostly a producer) to appeal to Codexers and that's about it.

 

[Infinitron]

Codex are not casuals.

Yes, but you have to consider the fact that a good chunk of Codex loved Obsidian even before the kickstarter (and not just because they saw it as a potential Black Isle successor), Fallout: New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer and even Kotor 2 are pretty popular games around here (heck even Alpha Protocol has a following). On the other hand how many Codexers like Bard's Tale remake and Demon Forge (or whatever it's called)? Obsidian has a good developer pedigree and bunch of ex-Black Isle developers, InXile has Brian Fargo (who was mostly a producer) to appeal to Codexers and that's about it.

Yes, I know that. That's why I suggested looking at other forums. I know that the PoE thread on Something Awful is very active, more active than the WL2 thread, although that's helped by the fact that Sawyer posts there.

And yes, Rake is right, the fact that people can point at PoE and say "hey this is kinda like Dragon Age" should be enough guarantee it larger sales. This really shouldn't even be a question. The only way that's not going to happen is if Obsidian isn't just "not as good" at marketing as inXile are, but if they're actively BAD at marketing. And I don't think anybody is saying that.

 

[Arkeus]

And yes, Rake is right, the fact that people can point at PoE and say "hey this is kinda like Dragon Age" should be enough guarantee it larger sales. This really shouldn't even be a question. The only way that's not going to happen is if Obsidian isn't just "not as good" at marketing as inXile are, but if they're actively BAD at marketing. And I don't think anybody is saying that.

That, or if PoE ends up being a really, really bad game. Or if the newspapers that hate obsidians try to pretend PoE is completelly unplayable because of bugs.

But yeah, i overall agree that "buzzword" Fargo use are really not that good when it comes to actually making sutainable sales beyond on dedicated forums- and there, people are going to also judge the game by what it produce, and buzzwords can produce people like felippe being overhyped.

 

[Tigranes]

There is a lot of stupid shit in this thread. Infinitron I have no idea why you are mixing the mostly reasonable things you say and good observations with some pointless VAULT DWELLER IS PARANOID & BIASED shit which is, well, rather paranoid and biased. Get over it.

The marketing work being done & its 'effects' are pretty hard to quantify without (and sometimes even with) access to funded research and other resources the firms themselves will have. If you start talking about which game is 'more popular' or which games have 'more fans' or 'more interest', nobody's going to have conclusive proof unless there's a very clear difference between the two games in question. The only thing we can reasonably talk about is whether Fargo's style and practices can be judged as more 'canny' than Urquhart or Sawyer in the media. And that also depends on what you imagine about the gaming audience (or 'know', if you have access to well conducted research).

Personally, I find that according to my preconceived notions of what marketing as a profession does and believes in, Fargo is the more effective promoter - VD's quotation earlier in this page is a good example of how he sells ideas not details, and his focus is on the dream rather than being an honest guy (though those are not mutually exclusive). Urquhart and Sawyer work much better for me, of course, and a lot of Codexers, because we tend to know a fair bit about games, game development and game hype, and Fargo sometimes sounds like he's talking out of his arse, whereas Sawyer always appears dedicated, thoughtful and honest to an informed audience, even if you disagree with his ideas.

Also, not really relevant, but

our Pillars of Eternity thread has no rivals in size.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. We all know that's because the PoE thread isn't about PoE.

 

[Vault Dweller]

^ an excellent post

 

[Crooked Bee]

Dunno about other websites, but there's a good chance RPS will hate on PoE because of bugs and difficulty. They cannot into challenging RPGs, and their latest interview with Feargus vehemently accused Obsidian of their games being buggy.

On the other hand, RPS seems to love Wasteland 2 already. If there's one thing Fargo knows, it's his way around gaming journalists.

None of the above means W2 will outsell PoE, of course. A lot will depend not only on marketing, but also on how both games actually review, and that is often an unpredictable thing.

 

[Vault Dweller]

On the other hand, RPS seems to love Wasteland 2 already. If there's one thing Fargo knows, it's his way around gaming journalists.

None of the above means W2 will outsell PoE, of course. A lot will depend not only on marketing, but also on how both games actually review, and that is often an unpredictable thing.

And yet "knowing your way around gaming journalists" tends to produce "positive reviews" more often than not. For example, RPS already loves WL2, as you noted. It's unlikely that they will change their mind when the game is released and it's a very influential site.

 

[Brayko]

Regardless of how you shake it, yeah Obsidian does kind of suck at mass marketing. They rely of their cozy heartfelt reputation as hipster hardcore developers to carry them along. I mean I enjoy their games for the most part but I kinda secretly wish they had a marketing strongman like Fargo or someone to keep their studio in top form aka pumping out consistent, solid and stable products because they have one.

 

[Crooked Bee]

And yet "knowing your way around gaming journalists" tends to produce "positive reviews" more often than not. For example, RPS already loves WL2, as you noted. It's unlikely that they will change their mind when the game is released and it's a very influential site.

What if their PoE review is positive, too, even if a bit less positive? In that case RTwP might still prevail against TB as far as their readers' preference is concerned.

A lot will also depend on IGN, Gamespot etc. RPS is not even the biggest website. And we can't really predict how either game will review there. RPS's review of The Stick of Truth was whiny and negative, but IGN and Gamespot did give the game some very high scores if I'm not mistaken, and so did many other major websites. Obs' reputation is actually fairly good at the moment.

Finally, Might and Magic X reviewed poorly, but stayed in Steam's Top 10 for several weeks iirc. Word of mouth is powerful, too.

 

[Infinitron]

Might & Magic X did not stay in Steam's Top 10 for "weeks", but its Early Access was there for 10 days or so.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Might & Magic X did not stay in Steam's Top 10 for "weeks", but it's Early Access was there for 10 days or so.

Okay, I stand corrected. I thought it stayed there longer for some reason.

 

[Zed]

Fargo does a good job telling his story about inXile - which is more than just selling WL2 to the journalists. Obsidian are often very specific talking about one game at a time.
Which is interesting because I can't see where inXile will go after WL2/Torment, whereas I have a pretty good idea about Obsidian. I think Obsidian could do with a little more profiling, and inXile with a little more game-talk.