KickStarter Can we move Bethesduh out of the RPG dev section?

[moon knight]

The Codex allows way more absurd shit into the RPG section than FO4 let's be honest. Plenty of tacti-cool games without meaningful dialogue or choices/consequence slide in un-noticed.

Implying dialogue based C&C makes an rpg


Listen buddy, those tacti-cool games are more of an rpg than you will ever be.

Certainly is not the combat system.

Implying dialogue based C&C makes an rpg
Listen buddy, those tacti-cool games are more of an rpg than you will ever be.

What do you expect? 90% of the codex are storyfags...

You're trying way too hard to be edgy



Also I don't like bethesda games, any of them really. That being said if bethesda games are removed many others will need to be aswell. They have stats, they have dialogue(sort of?) you make a...character? O.o



They're rpg's, just bad ones.

There's not even a slightly resemblance of choices and consequences. Bethesda games are immersive sims, where all the systems are broken, half assed and don't connect well with each other.

 

[Argronok]

Why do people hate Todd Howard again?

I haven't been following every single thing about Bethesda.

 

[jf8350143]

But when they made starfield we have to move them back, and when they make Elder Scroll 76 we move them out again. It will be a never ending circle.

 

[Big Wrangle]

But when they made starfield wo have to move them back, and when they make Elder Scroll 76 we moved them out again. It will be a never ending circle.

There won't. Not like we moved CDPR for releasing Gwent.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Some people are sad that Bethesda is taking so long for their next Elder Scrolls fix (come on, admit it, you know you want it) and are trying to get their attention....

No, I actually don't care.

Skyrim made me realize they were going to shit.

You needed Skyrim to realize that? Oblivion and Fallout 3 flew under your radar?

Skyrim was my giving them once last chance to turn the ship around.

I don't judge based on failure but also on how people fix failures. I (naively) gave Bethesda the benefit of the doubt with ES4 and Fallout 3 thinking they were just dealing with new leaders and a new IP. New Vegas was good so I thought there might be hope. Morrowind was good and I was hoping Oblivion/Fallout 3 were one-time fuck ups.

Skyrim showed Bethesda really was clueless. They watered shit down even more than Oblivion and Fallout 3! The only thing Skyrim has going for it was it has better ascetics.

 

[Oracsbox]

I genuinely think we should take them out.
Bethesda have nothing but contempt and indeed ridicule for gamers,they never fix bugs and have zero quality control.They are poor half finished products with just enough content that they can get away with.
They exploit and lie repeatedly about their products.
Their recent releases are RPG's in name only.
It's only a small thing but removing Bethesda from the RPG section would send a message of contempt back.

 

[Micormic]

There's not even a slightly resemblance of choices and consequences. Bethesda games are immersive sims, where all the systems are broken, half assed and don't connect well with each other.

There's plenty of rpg's with no choices and consequences.


Unless the choice between Bow or Magic or Sword in every blobber/ARPG.


I've never played Skyrim or F4. For example though, the CNC in fallout 3 is roughly equal to the baldur's gate series(ie 5-6 binary good vs evil choices).

 

[aweigh]

peak RPG Fallout right there

 

[abnaxus]

ppl who hate Bethesda hate Trump

 

[moon knight]

There's plenty of rpg's with no choices and consequences.

Then they are not RPGs, plain and simple.

In a PnP, a master that doesn't allow to make choices according to your character abilities and doesn't present consequences for you choices, effectively rendering useless your input, is a shit master.

Edit: You don't play Fallout for its combat, do you?

If you strip C&C from it, you get Tactics.

 

[aweigh]

your error here is operating under the assumption that "choice and consequence" occurs only via branching paths in a story (this was a feature of adventure games long before computer RPGs and thus has nothing to do with how much how of an RPG a CRPG is); or through things like mutually-exclusive dialog options, which guess what? Also a traditional feature of adventures long before computer RPGs were a thing, and thus once again not things which are wholly relevant to the RPG % factor in a crpg.

anyways, "choice and consequence" is originally drawn from things like the rules-system via attributes and stats and skills and from there the crpg dev extrapolates further by mixing this primal "c&C" with the other types of choices I presented in the above paragraph.

the most basic and simple usage example of crpg "c&c" that affects gameplay can be something like how Strength dictates whether or not a character can break open a door or not, or how having a Thief in your party allows you to plunder trapped treasure chests (which would be otherwise hampered if without one); that is true "c&c" that owes little to electronic adventure games and can be directly attributed to the table-top pen-and-paper roots of the medium. You can further clarify and amplify such venues for providing "c&c" opportunities by following the logic behind a simple example such as this one, and you can plainly see how this can create an opportunity for gameplay-derived consequences for the player

I hope this was enlightening for you moon knight

EDIT: (to keep this on-topic) using what I wrote as a basis one can also clearly see how Bethesda continually removes the RPG "factor" from each of their successive games by their removal of rules and systems; folding classes and skills and attributes into each other and reducing permutations for player agency and stuff like that.

It wouldn't matter how many divergent story-paths something like Fallout 76 had; it would still not be a "real RPG".

 

[Micormic]

There's plenty of rpg's with no choices and consequences.

Then they are not RPGs, plain and simple.

In a PnP, a master that doesn't allow to make choices according to your character abilities and doesn't present consequences for you choices, effectively rendering useless your input, is a shit master.

Edit: You don't play Fallout for its combat, do you?

If you strip C&C from it, you get Tactics.

Don't say any of that to all the Morrowind or Icewind dale or Wizardry fanboys on this forum, lol.

 

[TemplarGR]

C&C is not an integral part of CRPGs. Never was, never will be. It is an optional bonus.

Besides, if C&C was what defines RPGs, then point and click adventures, telltale games, etc, are all RPGs...

 

[DragoFireheart]

C&C is not an integral part of CRPGs. Never was, never will be. It is an optional bonus.

Besides, if C&C was what defines RPGs, then point and click adventures, telltale games, etc, are all RPGs...

Now I know why you have the Bethestard label.

 

[Luckmann]

But when they made starfield wo have to move them back, and when they make Elder Scroll 76 we moved them out again. It will be a never ending circle.

There won't. Not like we moved CDPR for releasing Gwent.

CDPR is still producing some form of CRPG. Bethesda hasn't produced a CRPG for over 10 years. I think it's time to let go.

Threads would still be allowed for sure, but there's really no point to have a Bethesda sub-forum.

 

[TemplarGR]

CDPR is still producing some form of CRPG. Bethesda hasn't produced a CRPG for over 10 years. I think it's time to let go.

Threads would still be allowed dor sure, but there's really no point to have a Bethesda sub-forum.

Fallout 4 is definitely an RPG. Just because it is not your cup of tea does not change this fact.

Stop acting like overgrown children people, Bethesda still is and will be for the foreseeable future, an RPG studio.

I know it sucks that their RPGs are enjoyed by millions of people and thus you don't feel unique anymore. You still have ToEE mods and gold box games, so you are still special!

 

[Luckmann]

Fallout 4 is definitely an RPG. Just because it is not your cup of tea does not change this fact.

No it's not. Just because you're a retard doesn't change that fact.

Bethesda still is and will be for the foreseeable future, an RPG studio.

[citation needed]

 

[Valky]

TemplarGR is just a budget Roqua.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

CDPR is still producing some form of CRPG. Bethesda hasn't produced a CRPG for over 10 years. I think it's time to let go.

Both developers leave a lot to be desired in this department.
The RPG mechanics are probably the least attractive elements of both Witcher 3 and Fallout 4. 2077 and Starfield/Skyrim 2 show no signs of improvement either.

 

[Black Angel]

TemplarGR is just a budget Roqua.

Nah, even Roqua can post something that actually makes sense and is relatively more agreeable sometimes.

This

, though.... a particularly interesting specimen because he/she/it is also tagged with

 

[Quillon]

heh Ubi's making a post apoc. far cry, bad news for bethesda twofold tomorrow (

)

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

 

[Cael]

Can we move Bethesduh out of the RPG dev section?

Spoiler

Couldn't help myself.

 

[ADL]

Why do people hate Todd Howard again?

I haven't been following every single thing about Bethesda.

He's the equivalent of a shitty dungeon master. This would be fine if he did his own thing but he essentially hijacked the series out from under somebody who knew what they were doing. Just to be clear, Morrowind is generally seen as an acceptable downgrade but everything afterwards is unacceptable decline. It's a shame LeFay's vision for the series was never realized and he was never really given a decent chance because that place was such a shithole to work for.

Daggerfall was horribly understaffed and many features were dropped or cut short. It was buggy but this was mostly due to pressure to release the game prematurely. It was done with only one main programmer (me, although I had an assistant occasionally) which is absurd on a project of this size. Especially considering that I was also the main designer (Ted was phenomenal and deserves at least equal credit but left before the project was done) and project leader and the Chief Engineer in charge of all other Bethesda development. Consequently, the project suffered and I consider it one of the great missed opportunities in my life, seeing what the game could have been but having to fall short. Had the dedication of the company been there, it could have so much better while retaining the feel it has. Ah, well... It has always had a dedicated following, strangely enough, even during development and testing. Most of the gods a named after some very dedicated testers, one exception being Julianos, God of Logic, whom I named after me!

My favorite (if I can use that word, considering my viewpoint) must be Battlespire. While it, too, suffered from a complete lack of resources and support, it was the best controlled project and the one where I had complete control of all aspects of the game and its development. If it had had hardware rendering support it would have been a much bigger success, I think. But, then again, I am rather biased.

Under LeFay's direction and a similar do or die trying scenario that led to the Morrowind we got getting the resources the project deserved, the series might have seen commercial success and I strongly believe that after enough technological innovation and iteration on a gameplay level, this kind of game would've caught on with mainstream audiences in the same way that Oblivion and Skyrim did. The world would've had to be downsized in order for that to happen but that's precisely what was planned for his Morrowind (which also included Vvardenfell). He even wanted to do multiplayer 20 years ago.

 

[Junmarko]

Pro-Choice & Consequence