Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Preview Choices in Oblivion

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Vault Dweller, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,030
    Tags: Bethesda Softworks; Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

    Another <a href=http://www.elderscrolls.com/home/home.htm>Oblivion</a> <a href=http://www.gamesradar.com/previews/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=37746&subsectionid=1594>preview</a>, courtesy of <a href=http://www.gamesradar.com>Games Radar</a>:
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote>As is typical, you can join a guild from the off to improve your skills and exploit the perks of such an allegiance. Four of them are available: Mages, Fighter, Thieves and The Dark Brotherhood.
    <br>
    <br>
    Unlike Morrowind, however, the interests and quests of these factions do not overlap, meaning that it's now possible to rise through the ranks of all four independently.
    <br>
    <br>
    The first two are a force for good, while thieves are less morally stringent, but still honourable.
    <br>
    <br>
    The Dark Brotherhood, however, only offers invitations to those people who have killed an innocent; once you've committed such a murder, you'll be invited to a Brotherhood domicile, a place patrolled by undead guards and draped with paintings of the Nightmother, the matriarch who slays all of her children in the night. </blockquote>Some questions that beg to be asked: Why Mages & Fighters are "a force for good"? What's good about a mercenary organization? If they are good, how can you become the leader of both good and evil factions? What's the logical explanation? They are teh stupid?
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote>If someone is, say, carrying a diamond that you need, but refuses to hand it over, you can avoid confrontation by stealing all the food from their home, and then offering to buy it once hunger kicks in.</blockquote>This example has been mentioned often, but if you think about, assuming you know how, where is the logic? Wouldn't it make more sense for the diamond guy to go out and look for some herbs and mushrooms, and sell them to shopkeepers than to sell "the precious" right away?
    <br>
    <br>
    Bethesda: dumbing games down since we've discovered the console market!
    <br>
    <br>
     
    ^ Top  
  2. FrancoTAU Liturgist

    FrancoTAU
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,496
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I'm not so hot on the idea of being able to join all the guilds. Kind of negates the whole idea of roleplaying your character a certain way if you can do everything.

    RE: Robbing a guys' food so he'll go hungry and sell you the diamond. Eh, that's a bit stupid specifically, but i like the general outside the box thinking they're trying to implement.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. Micmu Magister

    Micmu
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,163
    Location:
    ALIEN BASE-3
    They don't overlap?
    A new name for equator: oblivion.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Twinfalls Erudite

    Twinfalls
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,903
    'They don't overlap' is a nice way of saying 'they couldn't be bothered to implement any faction mechanics, or present any meaningful decisions to the player, even when it completely defies logic'.
     
    ^ Top  
  5. MrSmileyFaceDude Bethesda Game Studios Developer

    MrSmileyFaceDude
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    716
    Wow, Twinfalls, I'm amazed that you know so much about the guild questlines. That's incredible! You must've played Llamagod's leaked copy!
     
    ^ Top  
  6. AZ Liturgist

    AZ
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    467
    hehe :mrgreen:
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Twinfalls Erudite

    Twinfalls
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,903
    Hey MSFD - didn't you read that thread - I've even got the downloadable content already.

    I'm looking forward to my Chief-Assassin-cum-Thief-Leader stepping up to the 'Force for GOOD' Mages Guild and getting elected Head Mage.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,030
    @ MSFD:

    Are you saying that you can't become a leader of all 4 guilds (no matter how difficult it may be)? Because if you can, that tells me right there that there are no meaningful decisons to make (other than "Do I kill this person or Let him live, not that anyone cares" type decisions)
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Rulion Liturgist

    Rulion
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Montclair, NJ
    Every time I exit this thread, somebody else makes a new comment. Damn you all.

    The fact that the quests don't overlap makes me go "meh". On one hand, it detracts for the character playing aspect of the game. On the other, I hated how some of the quests crossed over one another in MW, forcing me to pick and choose.

    Personally, news I don't really know how to react to. Saying "damn!" would make me too much of a hypocrite, since just yesterday I had to make a decision between the Thieves and Fighters Guild. In the end I went for the FG and it pissed me off.

    Whatever, though. It's still going to be one of the most enjoyable games this year.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Twinfalls Erudite

    Twinfalls
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,903
    The question has to be asked Rulion - was there ever a real choice you had to make in a game which didn't piss you off?
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Sol Invictus Erudite

    Sol Invictus
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2002
    Messages:
    9,614
    Location:
    Pax Romana
    *sigh*

    Yet another boring post.
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Twinfalls Erudite

    Twinfalls
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,903
    From you? Yes, true.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Fodel Novice

    Fodel
    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Spain
    Perfect. :D
     
    ^ Top  
  14. bryce777 Erudite

    bryce777
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,225
    Location:
    In my country the system operates YOU
    I, for one, look forward to racially cleansing the gameworld. That's the kind of roleplay few games offer!


    As for the stealing food thing, that has to be about the silliest thing I have ever heard.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Screaming_life Liturgist

    Screaming_life
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    Location:
    On Maggie's Farm... No More
    :D i wonder if you're allowed in for "accidental" death? then maybe you could make make use of that totally hawt physics engine and nudge them down some stairs or a particulary erroded cliff top ;)
     
    ^ Top  
  16. crpgnut Augur

    crpgnut
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    St. Louis,MO,USA
    I've never thought of the Fighters and Mages guilds being a force for good. I think this was just the reviewer's opinion, not a fact. In Morrowind you could do evil mage quests for the chick in Balmora, or less evil mage quests for the chick in Alderaan :) This was a choice by the way, VD. Same sort of choices in some of the fighter's guild quests too. The thing is, it didn't make any difference in the end, which I thought it should. I don't mind that if you are playing an evil Battlemage that you can rise to the head of all guilds. If you play a good mage or fighter though, it should be impossible to rise very high in the Dark Brotherhood without being penalized by the good mages and fighter.

    Imaginary Scenario-

    Say I have several quest givers in Oblivion in each of the four guilds. If I do good deeds for Mage and Fighter quest givers and they raise my rank in the guild, those ranks should be lost if I get caught by a good aligned character. I can still raise ranks in the mages guild but now I have to find an evil sponser to support me. If I choose the route of evil but keep doing good quests/deeds, I should either be hunted down and/or kicked out of the DB.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Fodel Novice

    Fodel
    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Spain
    Funny :lol: , but this is a nice feature for a crpg as Oblivion :D , even with "accidental death" :twisted:
     
    ^ Top  
  18. Twinfalls Erudite

    Twinfalls
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,903
    This was a choice?!!! Do I fetch mushrooms for the mad cat-woman, or fetch dwarf trinkets for the other one?

    Hahaha ha

    ahhh. Cracks me up.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Anoik Novice

    Anoik
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    91
    Maybe, if he know a lot about alchemy, because i have to go to the forest with a book about mushrooms to know what is a good mushroom and what is a bad one, but with the book in my hands sometimes i don't know for sure what mushroom is that.

    Maybe he can go out and hunt a deer, if he is good hunting, but maybe he is not a good hunter.

    If we steal his diamond, and he don't have money, he will have to do something to get food, but something that he is good at.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Anoik Novice

    Anoik
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    91
    Maybe, if he know a lot about alchemy, because i have to go to the forest with a book about mushrooms to know what is a good mushroom and what is a bad one, but with the book in my hands sometimes i don't know for sure what mushroom is that.

    Maybe he can go out and hunt a deer, if he is good hunting, but maybe he is not a good hunter.

    If we steal his diamond, and he don't have money, he will have to do something to get food, but something that he is good at.
     
    ^ Top  
  21. geminito Liturgist

    geminito
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2003
    Messages:
    144
    "From the off", this article seems to be nothing but wind out of the Games Radar ass. 4 guilds? In addition to the 4 listed, there is the Arena Guild. And another I can't remember being talked about in other previews.

    Or did Bethesda axe all but 4 guilds?

    And I'm sure the preview is wrong that the fighter's guild and mage guild are "good". They certainly weren't good or evil in Morrowind.

    Why post such shit articles on Codex? Isn't there enough Oblivion "news" here already?
     
    ^ Top  
  22. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,030
    Do you need to have any skills to collect ingredients? No. Do you need to have some kinda book? No. Why place such restrictions on NPCs then?

    Looks that way. Many previews mentioned only 4 guilds.

    We post most RPG related articles, we are the daily news site, after all.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. HardCode Arbiter

    HardCode
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,138
    It's shit like this that fucking PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF about the asshole PR department. This bit of information should DEFINITELY be left for the player to figure out. But Tardthesda PR's department would rather not OFFICIALLY CONFIRM if spears, or Mark & Recall, etc are in the game or not. They'd rather, in the RARE event they give squat about the game, reveal shit that has no business in a review - rather best left to the players to find out about.
     
    ^ Top  
  24. Anoik Novice

    Anoik
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    91
    Yes, you can collet ingredients without skill, but you don't know if that mushroom is useful or not for something. Will you collect all mushrooms and herbs you can find in the forest? will you go tho the shopkeeper with a lot of bags full of herbs and mushrooms?.

    The npcs have similar restrictions than you. And we have choices, we don't have only one way of make a quest. We need the diamond. How to get it?. We can bribe him, we can steal it, we can kill him and take the diamond, we can steal his food and money and then pay him for the diamond, because he is hungry and he need the money for food. But he can go out and hunt a deer, or he can steal food or money, all based in his AI. Before we have some choices, and some ways of make something. Now, with that new AI, we have more ways of make something.
     
    ^ Top  
  25. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,030
    We aren't talking about realism here as selling a diamond to buy a sandwich is much more stupid. The point is what the acceptable and most logical behavior in the gameworld is. If you need quick cash, you can run and collect some herbs and mushrooms, and sell them to most merchants. If your character can do, NPCs should be able to do that too. Simple as that and no other explanation is required.

    More ways are good. Retarded ways that only an idiot can enjoy are bad.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)