CKII is released.

Well, I'd say it's preferable to super-stable empires.

 

Elective is available right away. If your realm breaks its your fault. I cope with those issues, whether its by assassinating all my brothers or going elective. I had the exact same situation you described, my realm split into three duchies. I spend my inherited gold on familicide.

Thats exactly what I want to avoid ie stat whoring. My godlike ruler dies while hunting? Tough luck. My king dies while on his own tournament? Happens.

More stat whoring. N/c.

Anyway there is one situation where I am wiling to concede on reloading - you lose the game due to circumstances you couldnt avoid that are of random and personal nature. Like dying with a heirless character right after the game started. Not when infidels conquer you - that just means you lost the game fairly.

Not willing to argue on this issue. As I said Paradox AI isnt noteworthy for being advanced and thus save scumming here is a pointless exercise of cheating a retarded child.

 

I suppose it was 'bullshit' that Barbarossa got himself killed because he forgot that metal armour is pretty heavy one day, and the big stack invasion you planned went to pieces.

Vaarna that would be an interesting 'fix', but from what I've seen every calendar year there's at least one or two rebellions that get white peace'd, so it might lead to a situation where there are no AI empires of any size at all. I mean, the AI wouldn't recognize the changed conditions and try to refrain from WPs, right?

 

Exactly.

 

Reality is unrealistic "bullshit" apparently.

 

Actually, after taking a gander at the file, there are modifier limits for the various scores in which the AI accepts/declines different offers. However, there doesn't seem to be what covers white peace.

However, you must also remember that the situation with all Empires is utterly FUBAR now, and requires a giant whooping with a nerf-stick to result in non-player Byzantium being a helpless paper dragon, HRE spending most of its time fighting itself, and Mongols getting into big trouble with conquered lands after their initial hordes run out.

 

An easy way to make realms able to break away successfully is to up the amount of war-score battles give you. It's how a lot of the mods do it right now, because battles are almost worthless in vanilla.

 

So it sounds like the developers are going to add a bunch of additional stuff to the game. I just got this but is there enough to make it fun now or should I wait to invest time in it? I have a ton of other games to play anyway.

 

It's fun to play on the fringes near heathens, but I feel like the catholic west is kind of boring right now. Not enough plots to make outmaneuvering people for titles fun and assassinations are too easy to game. Still very solid though, and probably Paradox's best release so far.

 

They need to make a Empire of Iberia

Vaarna, I don't think your fix will work because any rebelion in a empire is answered by a instant raising of levies though the entire empire, and since both HRE and ERE are immense, their levy sizes are monstrous, specially towards the end-game where any decent duke can raise dozens of thousands of soldiers. Any rebelion is doomed unless said Empire is fighting a equal adversary on all-out war and it also depends on the size and alliances the rebels may have between themselves. Even multiple dukes rebelling together are super easy for such behemoths.

 

So... its as it should be? A single duke shouldnt be able to revolt alone against the BE unless its already busy fighting a war or is facing a massive civil war. Vaarna changes makes sense in this regard. But they need testing to see if AI can handle them and if all realms become fractured in few decades...

 

I seriously doubt that anything weaker than say, half the dukes of the HRE/ERE revolting together would be enough to collapse either empire, unless it was being massively attacked by enemies at the same time. HRE/ERE simply have too much critical mass to collapse because they always have MORE DUKES AND COUNTS AND MORE DESMENES so they always have mass to fight any rebellion. HRE and ERE are probrably only weaker than Shia Caliphate, except that unlike the Caliphate, they don't have to deal with ceaseless european crusades all the time. Seljuks need to be more agressive, for example.

EDIT: FFS, they should stop being faggots and add a Empire of Ibéria already, sucks having to jug around with five king titles in a land-area smaller than France.

 

Actually what they should do in Iberia is remove all king level titles after you unite it and replace with kingdom of Spain and a big prestige bonus.

 

The problem that my tests concluded was that it was IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN EMPIRE TO FRACTURE, even with 75% of the realm in revolt! This is due to the fact that the only way it could work out the way it is now is if all Independence Wars became allied in a single war and the war score increased adjustingly in the revolters favour. So the only sensible thing to do is make the White Peace also result in independence, I'd say. The present problem is partially due to the fact that a stalemate results in a white peace, which means automatic victory. Personally I think the heat should be on the liege, who should win the war if he wants to hold the realm together.

Come to think of it, I've only ever seen a single Independence war succeed, and that was the Duchy of Uppland BECAUSE I FOUGHT ALONGSIDE THEM.

 

Alright, here's the revised Independence War entry in cb_types, so you bros can help me test it out throughoutly.

Basically, white peace is now also an option, but costs the revolter 100 prestige. On the other hand, asserting demands is very desirable now, because not only does it give you prestige, it also gives your former liege a massive prestige hit AND forces them to pay you a shitload of money.





bid_for_independence = {
name = CB_NAME_INDEPENDENCE
war_name = WAR_NAME_INDEPENDENCE
sprite = 12
truce_days = 3650

is_permanent = yes
is_independence = yes

can_use = {
ROOT = {
de_facto_liege = FROM
}

FROM = {
NOT = {
any_war = {
attacker = {
character = FROM
}
OR = {
using_cb = bid_for_independence
using_cb = depose_liege
}
}
}
}
}

is_valid = {
ROOT = {
OR = {
liege = {
character = PREV # either independent
}
liege = {
FROM = {
is_liege_or_above = PREV # or have shared liege
}
}
}
}
FROM = {
higher_tier_than = ROOT
}
}

on_success = {
if = {
limit = {
FROM = {
independent = no
}
}
FROM = {
liege = {
ROOT = {
set_defacto_liege = PREV
}
}
}
}

if = {
limit = {
FROM = {
independent = yes
}
}
ROOT = {
set_defacto_liege = ROOT
}
}

ROOT = {
prestige = 200
primary_title = {
add_pressed_claim = FROM
}
}

FROM = {
transfer_scaled_wealth = {
to = ROOT
value = 6.0
}
prestige = -400
any_demesne_title = { # All titles
limit = {
OR = {
tier = king
tier = emperor
}
is_titular = no
NOT = { has_law = centralization_0 }
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_1 }
add_law = centralization_0
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_2 }
add_law = centralization_1
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_3 }
add_law = centralization_2
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_4 }
add_law = centralization_3
}
}
}
}

on_fail = {if = {
limit = {
FROM = {
independent = no
}
}
FROM = {
liege = {
ROOT = {
set_defacto_liege = PREV
}
}
}
}

if = {
limit = {
FROM = {
independent = yes
}
}
ROOT = {
set_defacto_liege = ROOT
}
}

ROOT = {
prestige = -100
primary_title = {
add_pressed_claim = FROM
}
}

FROM = {
prestige = -50
any_demesne_title = { # All titles
limit = {
OR = {
tier = king
tier = emperor
}
is_titular = no
NOT = { has_law = centralization_0 }
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_1 }
add_law = centralization_0
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_2 }
add_law = centralization_1
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_3 }
add_law = centralization_2
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_4 }
add_law = centralization_3
}
}
}
}

on_reverse_demand = {
ROOT = {
prestige = -200
prisoner = FROM
}
FROM = {
prestige = 50
}
}

on_attacker_leader_death = {
any_defender = {
letter_event = {
id = 251
}
}

end_war = invalid
}

attacker_ai_victory_worth = {
factor = -1 # always accept
}

attacker_ai_defeat_worth = {
factor = 150
}

defender_ai_victory_worth = {
factor = -1 # always accept
}

defender_ai_defeat_worth = {
factor = 100
}
}

 

Btw, my ongoing campaign as the Kingdom of Finland is in a very bad spot right now: I've had a row of three old as dirt kings now, last of whom didn't have a son and whose daughter had no children (luckily his equally old as dirt brother had a little boy, so the old man had to go), and my only hope right now is for the aforementioned nephew to grow up before the old king kicks the bucket, meaning 3 years of intense excitement. Since I've cleared the line of succession until the little guy (unfortunate accidents all, of course), which probably wasn't a smart move, I'm just going to have to get the old fart to survive and then die so I don't have to deal with the clusterfuck of having to deal with creating baronies left and right and a bazillion revolts (you know, the usual thing that happens when crowns change hands).

Meanwhile, my new Independence script seems to work well. For one thing, it makes civil wars a lot more urgent to win, and secondly I have seen some fracturing in the usually monolithic entities of the game, which is good. And of course, my constant assassinations of Golden Horde Tsars (seriously, there are literally NO MONGOLS LEFT in the Horde, it's all Russian Catholics) has led to some great disintegration, though there is moar work unfortunate accidents to be done!

 

Patch incoming on friday(?)

v1.04

MAJOR:
- Revised the Message Setting system
- Religion groups are now marked playable in the religion file (no more hard coded rule)
- AI: Improved marriage acceptance. Smarter about "Desires Better Alliance". Values prestige gain or loss higher.
- Added some useful status info to the delayed character tooltip (similar to the info in debug mode)
- Cooldown added to excommunications (only for the same Pope though)
- Doubled the flanking damage bonus in combat
- Increased the flank leader Martial skill bonus in combat by 50%
- Nerfed taxes given by bishops to Anti-Popes by 50%
- Holy Orders now cost maintenance if you're in at least one offensive, non-Crusade war
- Halved all peasant revolt risk factors
- Added an "Isolated County" revolt risk modifier and cut the special events that used to simulate it
- Peasant Army size is now determined by the biggest holding garrison size (so they will always be dangerous)
- The Succession War CBs now have the proper success outcome
- Fixed a bug with the usurpation of titles that would hand over all vassals too
- AI: More wary of expensive assassinations
- AI: Fixed some issues with the correct Casus Belli choice
- AI: Tweaked vassal revolt risk to depend more on ambition from traits
- The duchies of Cornwall and Brittany are now de jure part of the Kingdom of Wales
- Buffed the Caliphates and the Seljuks. Nerfed the Byzantines.
- Added vassal Seljuk mercs; the Ghilman
- Now shows a portrait of the target in available player plots
- Hooked in missing plot icon in available player plots

MINOR:
- Upped the chances of dying due to disease a little bit
- Increased the effects of the genius, quick, slow, imbecile and inbred traits
- Reduced the levy size effect of some of the "recently occupied" modifiers
- Nominated bishops are now properly disinherited at once
- Combat events will not happen until three days into a combat (to avoid commander deaths and such when overrunning tiny forces)
- When an Anti-Pope is installed in Rome, the old Pope no longer becomes an Anti-Pope
- Waived the opinion penalty for held elector titles for elective duchies and below
- Fixed a CTD issue that could occur in tooltips when hovering over Holding modifiers as they expire
- Vassal mercs can now always be employed by their liege, no matter their religion
- Scaled wealth effects and triggers are now based on nominal peacetime income
- Fixed an error in the opinion warning when banishing characters (not the correct figure.)
- The game will now also auto-generate an appropriate number of traits for children with not enough scripted traits
- Added a text warning/explanation for DoW on a revolter
- Traits are now read from multiple files, facilitating modding
- Fixed an issue with event ids in a namespace
- Fixed an issue with flipping "random god names" tooltips in fire event effect tooltips
- Fixed a bug with the decision 'Demand Duchy from liege' with duke tier lieges (should not be available)
- Fixed a tooltip issue with the "any" type event triggers
- Better tooltips for event triggers 'higher_tier_than' and 'lower_tier_than'
- Re-enabled selection of the same type of plot again for players
- Fixed an issue with save/reload of the last selected plot/ambition
- Fixed an issue with protected inheritance not always working under Gavelkind
- Exported MAX_ELECTOR_TITLES_LEGALLY_HELD to defines
- Exported the max duchies held opinion penalty to defines
- Exported the tax penalty for bishops loyal to the Pope or Anti-Pope to the defines
- The "recently conquered" holding penalties are no longer applied during civil wars or wars between vassals
- AI: Fixed a bug where the AI would grant titles to vassal mercs
- Added 'same_guardian' trigger
- Slightly nerfed William of Normandy's initial army size
- Switched the portraits of Harold and William the Conqueror
- Changed some title colors to conform better to their cultural region
- Added proper history for the Prince-Bishopric of Agen
- The Earl of Atholl is now a _legitimate_ bastard

 

Seems they finally got the hint

 

Varna, I haven't tried out your changes and am fuzzy on the scripting, but do they apply to player-controlled countries as well? If so, it's going to be annoying to have to get to war score 100% with every single rebel you face; it makes assassinating the rebel leader start to look even more like a silver bullet, for the leader of a large imperialist state.

I'm inclined to think that higher battle weights and a higher plot threshold for breaking away from the liege are better ways to handle fracturing. For the ERE in particular, I'd go with some semi-invasion-level war condition for the Seljuks at the game start, wherein if they win, they take all Byzantine holdings in Anatolia. Historically speaking, the ERE had lost all of Anatolia within 10 years of the game's start, and all their non-Euro territories within 20 years. (Refer to this map by the esteemed Wikibro, Bigdaddy1204.) Of course, without an overpowered ERE, the game's overpowered Shia Caliphate might end up conquering Europe, so I don't know.

Not really sure what to do with the HRE. Maybe give the Kaiser a 1% of dying every time he moves troops over a river.

 

Since they are still patching I think I will wait to play this game even though it looks fun now. Im a big fan of knights of honor so hope I like this one too.

One thing I wonder about is when they buff and nerf things.....sometimes this messes up balance. Anyone know how they decide how to do that? Is it from player feedback?

 

Patch notes foretell some nerfing to the BE. And Turks being a danger to the Europe would be a good addition.

 

Actually, I was thinking about removing rather silly element of an independence war ending with the death of the rebel leader... Or making that it can end with the death of the monarch as well.

And yes, the conditions apply to the player as well, which I think is a good thing: It forces you to carefully organize your feudal clusterfuck so it doesn't collapse like a house of cards. It discourages map-painting in favour of actual nation-building.

As for the battle weights and thresholds... Those are far more sensitive and harder for the AI behaviour to handle than the altered victory conditions. I'm also pretty sure you can't have the "rising" warscore that county claim wars have, which is a further complication. In short, there's only two options: Either drastically lower the AI warscore requirements for the liege to accept terms, or to modify the white peace (keep in mind, the liege only accepts white peace if he isn't winning and the war has gone on for several years).

 

Used to be beta feedback only, who tested the patches before they were released. Nowadays it's probably player feedback through their forums.

 

So...now that the post release excite has, hopefully, worn off...what kind of product is CKII? Any glaring faults? Areas where an expansion is really needed? Etc?