Climbing, Jumping, Etc in ISO CRPGs

Something about the image of north african tribespeople programming
video games in their mud huts doesn't quite fit. 'Second world' is
probably what you mean.

 

After the demise of the U.S.S.R we don't really consider them second worlders. And after the tribesman finishes writing his code on animal skin he brings it to the local internet cafe and compiles it before he sends e-mails to Americans telling them that there is a strongbox full of money that they can get if they pay a few small fees.

 

It is quite moronic, actually, to consider USSR a second or third world country since it, along with USA, was the mightiest country in the world, the science/technology/warfare progress of which could only be matched by USA and few other countries.
But, in terms of entertainment industry, of course, USSR was stagnant (although not in the last years).

So, that's a lame comparison.

 

That begs a question. If USSR was so awesome, how come I can't find it on a map anymore?

 

Vault Dweller: Nice one!


You know, I had a Russian TA for a lab teacher once. She was telling us how they used to write all the code out on paper for projects at her school in Russia.

So yeah, TheGreatGodPan might not be too far off on the whole animal skin thing.

 

Lot of political issues, and it'll take much more than this thread to elaborate on them fully.
WE're not talking about politics though, are we?
A country with such highly advanced technology can't really be considered a second/thrird world country, don't you think?

If I follow your logic correctly, then Roman Empire/Ancient Greece weren't great at all, but just a bunch of barbarians, hmm?

 

A country with student programmers doing all their projects on paper doesn't sound like it has very highly advanced technology.

Or do you not realize... we are WAY past the pencil you know!

By our standards? Yeah, they pretty much were barbarians.

 

As one of the mighties countries in the world the USSR couldn't even feed its own people. Most of the money went to the military. Additionally the USSR's control over anything past in Central Asia was rather shaky. All those -stans didn't just arise out of thin air.

The Romans, Greeks, etc. are highly overrated.

 

I'd say a definition of first/second/third worlds is more complex than a few isolated, often artifical factors. Political, economical, sociological factors shouldn't be ignored because they determine if and how a country can use its potential.

The military/space tech was decent, the rest was crap. Just look at Russian cars, TVs, and such. Who cares if Russians have high space tech if they don't have money to get into space these days?

They lasted more than 70 years, didn't they? They contributed a lot more to the world (Corpus Juris Civilis is a blueprint of the modern civil laws, etc) too. The Roman Empire was actually an Empire that lasted several centuries , USSR was a process of falling down in slow motion.

 

Then again Russia and eastern block countries ARE leading the world in Applied Computer
Science ( i.e. online banking fraud, identity theft and wholesale software piracy).

 

You haven't even lived here, how can you judge?
Soviet life varied between different periods. And certainly, you can't consider Stalin's regime a permanent in USSR.

At least not as shaky as the stiuation in CIS right now. Of course, countries like Kazakhstan (i live there) are pretty stable, but other states are... well, vastly disorganized, like separated from a feeding mother.
And the problems in Russia with Chechnya... and that moronic khan-regime in Turkmenistan... the shreds of the Empire are much more distabilized and regressal.

HUh?
ANd what vehicle has been winning Paris-Dakkar all the time? Russian "Kamaz" trucks.
Of course, the small automobile market was pretty weak in USSR, but still the cars were pretty decent, and most of them are alive to this day (i've seen a lot of cars now that were made in 70-80s). Nothing fancy, but stable.


So please don't start the mini-COldwar bullshit again.

 

Listen Mr. Bolshevic, if you weren't so fast to go on the defensive about
the second-world classification (which takes into account many factors,
including current socio-economic status) you wouldn't have got into
this mini flame-war with the 'merkins.

Your choice of words has been unfortunate more than once - calling your
country 'the mightiest' is vulgar and offensive to people not from there.

For example, one of the reasons the US is sometimes disliked by other countries
is because of the jackass percentage of the population that shoot their mouths
off saying 'we're the best and everyone else better fall in line'.

 

In Soviet Russia cars belong to the entertainment industry? Cool

lol. That's too funny. And why do you think the country has fallen apart?

Who gives a fuck? I live in Canada and I couldn't care less if we have the best fighter jets or not. Well, to be honest, I don't even know if we have fighter jets

Don't forget the spammers too

We are not talking about your eating habits in USSR, we are talking about its status as a first/second/third world country and I don't think that having easily accessible food scores a lot of points there.

Again, we are not talking about a handful of cars Russians made to impress the world and show that the commie way owns much hated capitalism. We are talking about industries.

It's never OVAR!!!!

 

No fucking way I never said that the our people are superior.

What's wrong in saying that, say, Russian battle helicopters are the best? That's fact.
This is not an insult, no way.

Fuck, my brother lives in USA, and I will probably live there soon, so why would I start this "coldwar" here again?

 

Your words.

P.S. Look up a definition of 'second world' (along with 'mythology').

 

2 Vault Dweller: this is pointless. You are biased, you will never accept my opinion just because i'm a post-Soviet.

INternal conflicts, mutiny, bad leadership.. etc etc many reasons.
But it is GOVERNMENT. And there are people and other infrastructures (education, industry etc).

You should see the bigger picture, but you surely can't because you never lived here. So this argument is pointless.

Would you argue that USA and USSR were the two biggest powers in the world?
It's not to say that all others are inferior, it's just a measure of their industrial/military success that gave them their "titles".

 

Yeah, that's why *rolls eyes*. I don't care about your opinion because you are the one who's biased. Despite the propaganda, enough is known about USSR to make a simple conclusion. The fact that it fell like a house of cards proves that such a conclusion is correct.

So, falling economy, lack of faith, lost war in Afganistan despite all that awesome might you told us about, stagnation, etc had nothing to do with that?

No, it's a measure of military power and available, easily sacrificable cannon fodder.

 

Biggest land masses sure. In the time-frame I'm sure you're referring to both
countries had developed nuclear weapons, and had the largest number of
military personnel, together with some of the best military planes/tanks etc,
that's the origin of the label 'superpower'.

I will say though, there are better ways of putting forward your view without
describing your country as 'the mightiest' - this has a negative connotation
e.g. "Might makes right" is a negative phrase for military imperialism etc.

 

That were the reasons of the fall, yes. I didn't deny that.

YOu're saying as if USSR had nothing, BUT military in everything.
Art, science, cinema, music, sports - USSR had it all. Not *better* than anyone, not *teh bestest* or something, but it has its successes and falls, just as any other country does.
No disrespect whatsoever.

Space programs? Atomic energy?
But yes, I agree, most of it was focused on military.
And I said that myself: USA and USSR were the military superpowers.

But there is an other side of the life in both countries, it's not all military and industrial.
You doubt of our culture? You doubt of our art?
Well, it's all matter of taste, but hey - you can't say that all those peaceful aspects were underdeveloped.

 

There are better words you could have used to describe the country
other than 'the mightiest' therefore, because this has a military connotation.

 

That's right.
And i did. Just read my posts more carefully.
If I say it is mighties, I always note that it is so in some fields, be it military, space, etc. I could have used "leading" or "best" instead of "mightiest," if it troubles you so.
I never said that it is the best country in the world or something.
I just don't want people to think we were some totally underdeveloped dumpheap of cannon fodder, as VD vividly describes us.

Yeah, VD, I am the CANNON FODDER! PHEAR ME!

 

That we can all agree with

Not at all, but that doesn't give a country a pass into the first world club, does it?

I've never said anything like that.

 

Russia didn't have the best anything after the 70s.

Without computers, you can't do jack shit, militarily speaking. You can't even have decent fabrication plants after a certain point.

Anyone posting on less than a one gig celeron is a third worlder as far as I'm concerned.

I remember some guy saying he made 200 dollars a month, but would still pay 50 bucks for a new game. That's crazy talk. that would be like me spendinhg 2500 bucks on a new game. Not gonna happen.

In my experience as a programmer, the russian types are good mathheads, but they get caught up in mentally ill, nonproductive 'optimizations' and goofball, harebrained designs. I just say that as an aside, but an rpg designed by russians is about the last thing I would want to play.


Oh, and now that microsoft outsources its stuff, the whole source has been transferred to banana leaves so that the bengalis can work with it on their own terms.

 

Hey, wow, this all turned into some weird "commies vs the rest" argument while I wasn't looking.

Haha, well little ol' NZ doesn't have jet fighters anymore. The government neutered our airforce because it was too expensive to maintain or upgrade.
Recently our Prime Minister got stranded in Australia due to some Aussie industrial action, and it was rather ironic that she had to get an airforce Orion to collect her.

Metald00d:
As for "best fighter jets"...PUH-leeze.
There was that fighter that crashed in the late 80's (?? or whenever it was) and the yanks were rather surprised at the comparitively low tech in it. Damn, I wish I could find that darned article...

 

That's the beauty of the Codex: threads constantly evolve into something beatiful (usually spectacular flame wars with massive casualties on both sides )