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Combat mechanics

Discussion in 'Ash of Gods' started by Sneaky Seal, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    [​IMG]

    First of all - Ash of Gods will have turn-based battles, so no RTWP.

    We're developing our own ruleset with some unique and (hopefully) exciting mechanics:

    1. We do not have RND, so no rolls and hit/miss chances.
    2. Besides the characters in his party the player can use powerful cards during the battle.
    3. Each character has only 3 basic parameters
    • HP - health points, once it reaches 0 the char dies;
    • MP - energy points, they are used for special moves and rushing across the tactical field. Once it reaches 0 - any further damage toward MP will deal x2 towards HP;
    • AT - attack, servers as the base parameter for skills.
    4. Any attack can be aimed at either opponent's HP or MP.
    5. Powerful attack use HP points (and not only for a berserker or a blood mage but across many of the classes).

    If you don't mind long articles - you can read about the process of creating the combat system on our website https://ashofgods.com/news/new-approach-to-turn-based-strategies/ (or should I share it here?).

    You can also get your hands on the prototype and check it out for yourself here http://game.aurumdust.com/.

    [​IMG]

    It has very limited UI and player support so it's pretty hardcore at this point, but we will greatly appreciate if you give it a shot and share some feedback here.

    Beware that there is no AI yet, so you can do 1 out of the 3 things:
    • Open it in 2 browser tabs and play with yourself (we don't judge);
    • If you happen to have a friend - send him the link and fight against him;
    • I'd be happy to play against you - so just shoot me a PM with the time that you'd like to give it a shot.
    As always - feel free to ask me anything about it (ie classes, skills, mechanics, etc.)
     
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  2. vivec Self-Ejected

    Self-Ejected
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    Hey! This looks great! I will have lots of questions soon :).
     
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  3. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    Cool. You got your own sub forum now :)
     
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  4. Spectacle Arcane Patron

    Spectacle
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    "powerful cards".. are cards drawn randomly or are they deterministic?
     
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  5. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    It wasn't really a choice of a better one - it was a question of choosing one out of 2. We went with the square grid because:
    • We just saw it clearer how our tactics would work on a square grid, particularly classes and their skillsets;
    • From a technical point of view - the hex grid makes maneuvring more complex and requires 1.5 times the animations;
    • It's also somewhat of a traditional way to do it for the jRPGs (such as Fire Emblem) that we draw some ideas from.
    We also do not plan to have any diagonal movement or attacks. This increases the role the party members' positioning plays on the field, which in turn deepens the tactical aspect.

    Sure, shoot away :D

    That is somewhat work in progress. You will be collecting cards during your playthrough and then you will either pick a hand or get random cards out of the deck. Which version would you actually prefer? To have a random hand for each battle to make it more diverse? Or to pick a hand so you work out a specific tactic based on your party+cards build?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
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  6. Spectacle Arcane Patron

    Spectacle
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    Building a small deck and getting a random hand from that would be good. The random hand will help shake things up a bit in the otherwise deterministic combat, but you also get to build a deck from cards that synergize with your warband.
     
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  7. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    As I have mentioned before - all in-combat characters' actions will be fully animated. Here is Fisk (one of the player's party members) both attacking and recieving damage.

    [​IMG]

    Let me know, please, whether his movement looks realistic enough.
     
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  8. Harpsichord Arcane

    Harpsichord
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    That depends entirely upon what you consider 'realistic enough.' Likewise, are spears 'reach' weapons in this game? Is there a different animation for when he attacks 'at reach' etc.

    Because as it stands, he's forsaking pretty much everything that makes a spear worth using, that is, the length of the weapon and the leverage that allows the wielder. Pretty much any example I've seen of 'realistic spearfighting' has the guy holding the spear much further back from the spearpoint. This applies to both eastern and western martial arts:


    But is realism what you want? The animation stands up fine as an animation in and of itself.
     
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  9. dag0net Arcane

    dag0net
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    i like the anim, but realistic? like.. the motion is gd..but you just tire yourself out trying to kill someone like that eh!
    But! fwiw, that left foot of the targetdummy is a bit distracting.

    spear gives u reach, reach gives u initiative.
    bodymassextension adds momentum to thrust but naturally increases vuln..so you're stepping so if u miss or fail to ..well..w/e
     
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  10. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    I was more interested in the animation - whether it looks smooth and continuous. The foot is somewhat wobbly indeed.

    As for the spearman technique - we are going for more on an "artistic expression" rather that an absolutely realistic combat (which would probably look somewhat dull). Still, we won't contradict common sense and the spearman will be able to pierce an enemy across a tile away - this is another case, a close range attack.
     
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  11. anus_pounder Arcane

    anus_pounder
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    You'll have to worry about the combat mechanics of my fist to your face if this game turns out to be vaporware. :rage:

    Looking good. Can't wait to sink money into this. :incline:
     
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  12. Galdred Studio Draconis Patron Developer

    Galdred
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    Nice art style!
    I wanted to say it looked a lot like the Banner Saga, but it must get old by this time (and TBS without the initiative system would be a great improvement to begin with! :))
     
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  13. IncendiaryDevice Self-Ejected Village Idiot

    Self-Ejected
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    Is this a human vs human weapon clacking game or will there be many a strange and interesting beast to encounter with many and varied combat variations resulting?
     
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  14. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    With your nickname — face is not the worst place to get pucnhed at :)
    On a serious note — we are pretty invested into this game at this point with time and effort already spent and also really believe we are able to deliver a great game, so you can be pretty sure it will see the light next year. And thank you for your support all around.

    A short answer would be — we like Banner Saga and their style, we also like things they draw inspiration from (such old Disney and Japanese visual novels as well as some old school RPGs, both western and eastern). But we defiantly do have enough things of our own to say with this project in many aspects.

    Am I the only one feeling that this question is a bit loaded?
    We would be very happy if we could have added monsters near the end of the game, but we are not sure if we will be able to. The problem is that animating is a very time consuming process. Creating all the combat animation just for 1 character (around 16 different clips) takes about 2 months of work by 1 animator. With beasts the process is even more complex. To animate humans we use rotoscoping, which means we shoot recordings of actors performing different actions and use them for as a reference. With beasts we cannot do that. We plan to decide on this around May/June when we will have all the main characters and enemies ready.
     
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  15. Berekän #11231 Patron

    Berekän
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    No wonder he gets fucking hit, he's standing there trying to nap on his own spear, bad combat posture.
     
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  16. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    A bit of a spolier here - but he is kind of like the Fallout 1 Dogmeat - you will have to work hard to have him survive during your playthrough.
     
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  17. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    What do you think about unusual decisions?

    We always wanted to create a combat system for 'Ash of Gods' that gives a tactical choice to a player. That is why some skills cost a certain amount of health points to make a player think carefully before using them.

    Also any skills can target an enemy’s HP or MP. Thus if you are afraid of an enemy cleric you can try to kill him as fast as possible or just burn his mana and prevent any healing. Also when MP reaches zero any extra damage to MP will instead do double damage to HP. But do not forget that a lot of classes are able to take a defensive stance decreasing incoming damage, and some of them are also able to counterattack.
     
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  18. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    How to turn the tide of the battle to your advantage, if you have made a couple of mistakes? Of course, with the help of cards.

    [​IMG]

    In the begining of the battle you get random five cards from your collection, each of them becomes available only from a certain round, depending on its strength. Playing them at the right time, you can not only gain a weighty advantage, but also make the opponent gnash their teeth.
     
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  19. Razzoriel Genos Studios Developer

    Razzoriel
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    Hey there, we discussed the overpowered ranged mechanics you're trying to conceptualize. Though clearly you as the developer have the best overview of your own product than any potential costumer/player might have, I'm just stepping by to wish the best of luck in your game and to engage in conversations with the gamers as you develop. Mob mentality isn't always correct; you'll have to decide what to tackle on and how, and if it serves as advice for both you and me, it's that as crazy as your ideas sound, if it works well and meshes with the game conceptually, then it is all fine.

    Best of luck!
     
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  20. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    Hey, thanks, man, this is pretty nice of you. We are looking for feedback for some things, but do have firm conviction in others. The combat math is one of them - it's really hard to judge unless you try it, so we will look for feedback once the combat's avaiable.
     
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  21. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Every time I see an update on this game I think, "oh look. lukaszek made a thread about Ash of Gods".

    Then I come here and am confused for a minute or two. Followed by bitter disappointment. Followed by hunger. Followed by sleepiness.

    However, this

    Makes me happy. and this...

    Has me intrigued. I very much enjoyed Telepath Tactics' non/light RNG style of play. Very Chess-like.

    Looking forward to more updates.
     
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  22. lukaszek the determinator

    lukaszek
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    deterministic system > RNG
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  23. Razzoriel Genos Studios Developer

    Razzoriel
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    He is removing the chance-based systems to make it less based on luck and more based on actual strategy.
     
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  24. Sneaky Seal Aurum Dust Developer

    Sneaky Seal
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    Thank you, we're currently working on an alpha version of the combat system, we should really put something together to show here, I will get onto it.

    One day....
    [​IMG]

    Yep, it makes every move more meaningful in our opinion. But there is some RND present in a form of cards you get for a battle (you get a hand of 5 cards with various effects and level on influence on the combat).
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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