Incline SHELTER update thread

Wunderpurps · Oct 13, 2011

shihonage said:
so that Bethesda/Interplay doesn't sue me, and it's not post-nuclear.

Every time I think it can't get more ironic you called me a troll you outdo yourself.

If you ever even managed to get noticed by bethesda you'll be at the point you can laugh off a silly lawsuit just like the minecraft guy, but you can't copyright basic setting elements like that or the ever litigious Harlan Ellison would have sued the shit out of Bethesda twenty times by now and own their company. Too bad for him simply having great ideas and being an amazing writer doesn't make money the way padded fluff does.

Davaris · Oct 13, 2011

shihonage said:
... but that would be unoriginal and sue-adjacent.

I don't know what right they'd have to sue someone, making a game with a similar setting. Its not like they own the Post Apocalyptic setting. It was around a long time before them. They'd probably sue because they can afford to and know you can't afford to defend it.

A movie studio who's movies I find amusing is called the Asylum. They copy blockbusters, change them slightly, make them cheap and fast and release them with a funny name. They've never lost money and have gone from being hated, to being considered cool in a so bad its good way. One day someone will start doing the same to AAA games and there will be nothing the majors can do to stop them.

shihonage · Oct 13, 2011

@Davaris:

If it was only the setting, I wouldn't be concerned. Nobody's suing Cormac McCarthy. Heck, I don't think anyone would be able to sue Fallout makers over Wasteland IP - they just feel too darn different.

Imagine a game that starts off after nuclear war.

It has raiders and other shelters (or gasp... "vaults") in it.

It looks and feels a whole lot like Fallout, from isometric perspective, to the travel/encounters, to the similar-designed stat system and near-identical weapon/armor progression.

Sure, my Power Armor is called Titan Armor, and my Raiders are called Scavengers.

And there's no 50's theme.

But at which point does the SUM of all of it, NOT JUST THE SETTING, cross the uncanny similarity threshold, when someone can easily glance at the game AS A WHOLE and say "wait, looks like this guy is making a Fallout game right under our noses" ?

Is there a definite answer? Something that's guaranteed to not jeopardize massive amounts of work at a critical point?

Davaris · Oct 13, 2011

Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_Dreams

A nuclear war breaks out in 1996, expending the world's entire nuclear arsenal, except for one missile. Two children, Philip Chandler (John Stockwell) and Marlowe Hammer (Michael Dudikoff), are abandoned by their fathers in a fallout shelter cut into the side of a wooded mountain. The pair grow up in the shelter, with 1950s detective fiction and swing music as the guiding force in their learning. Fifteen years later Marlowe succeeds in digging out the cave entrance. The pair give each other haircuts, dress in suits, and go to rejoin the world.

Do you think the Fallout people should be sued? :lol:

shihonage · Oct 13, 2011

Okay.

Now imagine someone using that movie's plot to make an isometric RPG about a guy being abandoned by his father in a fallout shelter.

In other words... set up of Fallout 3 and interface of Fallout 1 mixed with Van Buren.

Bethesda will have no problem with this?

Davaris · Oct 13, 2011

Those guys will sue over anything if there is money in it for them. TBH it wouldn't matter what you made, if they decided to sue you. But if I could afford to defend it, I would pull out RD. It would be devastating.

But really this discussion has made me see something. There is no such thing as originality. There is only people with lots of money to say an idea is theirs. The people that made RD don't sue to defend their idea, because they don't have the money to do so.

tindrli · Oct 13, 2011

Davaris said:
Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_Dreams

A nuclear war breaks out in 1996, expending the world's entire nuclear arsenal, except for one missile. Two children, Philip Chandler (John Stockwell) and Marlowe Hammer (Michael Dudikoff), are abandoned by their fathers in a fallout shelter cut into the side of a wooded mountain. The pair grow up in the shelter, with 1950s detective fiction and swing music as the guiding force in their learning. Fifteen years later Marlowe succeeds in digging out the cave entrance. The pair give each other haircuts, dress in suits, and go to rejoin the world.

Click to expand...

Do you think the Fallout people should be sued?

good old Michael Dudikoff

Wunderpurps · Oct 13, 2011

Davaris said:
They copy blockbusters, change them slightly, make them cheap and fast and release them with a funny name. They've never lost money and have gone from being hated, to being considered cool in a so bad its good way. One day someone will start doing the same to AAA games and there will be nothing the majors can do to stop them.

It's surprising for all the talk about IP on the internet few people know the basics like protection of parody as free speech. The only thing I'd worry about is name infringement which is all big companies care about protecting anyways, and a name like Shelter is too generic to be protected.

Jaesun · Oct 13, 2011

Just like Scrolls is also too generic... oh wait...

Wunderpurps · Oct 13, 2011

Jaesun said:
Just like Scrolls is also too generic... oh wait...

Oh no I got a scary letter I better stop game development. That's not the same as getting sued, and if they want to write letters or sue they will, there's nothing to stop them. But if they pursue the scrolls claim then they are not only going to lose but they'll be paying damages.

tindrli · Oct 14, 2011

Just move to Bosnia. Here, in the ass of the cused europe you can develop every shit tha you want. Hell, you can even clone people nobody cares.

Surf Solar · Nov 29, 2011

Shihonage, do you plan on implementing footstep sounds the characters make travelling the maps? (asking since you are coding your own engine)

We want to have such a thing in What Remains too, but have no idea how to properly implement it so it doesn't become a clusterfuck... Would be nice to know if you have somehow mastered it.

The sounds I have already created (I will happily share them too if you need some) - it's rather the technical execution which is lacking right now.

shihonage · Nov 29, 2011

Footstep sounds have been in Shelter since 2007, though "borrowed" and thus illegal to use.

Right now it just has "indoor" and "outdoor" footsteps. And, I think, "outdoor in the rain" footsteps. There's no division by armor types because that would be fucking insane attention to detail for such a small part of an enormous project.

Please be more specific on the technical execution part.

Surf Solar · Nov 30, 2011

Essentially, we want different sounds for different "undergrounds" - like you walk on sand, you hear this, walk on snow you hear this, walk on concrete tiles, you hear this etc. The same for running.

My first initial idea was to bind the sfx to tilename prefixes (desert01-99 would play the desertwalk.ogg sound then) but it doesn't work with our current structure. Second idea was to define areas in the map to determine the edges of where what should be player - not a sane idea. Last idea was to randomly place hexes that trigger these sounds - I would probably become insane doing that because I have to write new lines in the scripts for each and single hex...

About those "illegal" sounds you have, as said I will gladly provide you with mine.

shihonage · Nov 30, 2011

IGNORE THE BROKEN FLOOR

Shelter editor paints in "layers". When I paint "layer 2", it knows that layer 2 is indoor ground, no matter what texture is being put down. That way, there's no additional marking required.

"Layer 1" is outdoor ground.

if (player on layer 2) use indoor footsteps
if (player on layer 1) use outdoor footsteps
if (player on layer 1) and (it's raining) use watery outdoor footsteps

In your case, you should find a way to tag each floor tile in a similar fashion, just as you're putting it down. "Wood tag", "sand tag", "snow tag", etc. Should just set it, and then create the entire floor for the house, then change to outdoor and do outdoor stuff, etc.

And yes, I might just query you for your footstep sounds after finishing Monsterland

shihonage · Jul 18, 2012

It's official. I quit my job to work on games.

The quitting doesn't officially take effect until end of August.

I intend to speed up development, finish and release Monsterland and get back to my beloved Shelter. Or rather, toward Shelter alpha demo, similar to Fallout alpha demo - which would also be the starting location of the game, unlike Fallout demo, which dumped you into Junktown with leather armor.

This demo will have limited graphics, but they will not be violating anyone's copyrights.

Technically I could make screenshots of Shelter using non-copyright-infringing graphics now, but Monsterland has to be done first.

It has now become my safety net. Even if Monsterland gets mediocre reviews, it will be a completed, shipped game, and I will put it on my resume in case nothing works out financially and I end up applying for a gaming company job.

Surf Solar · Jul 18, 2012

Here is hoping you will get the maximum of money to keep working on something you truly love, shi!
Just remember, as I said dozens of times, you don't need to outsource EVERYTHING, I and I am sure others here too will love to help you on some GFX, models, or music (dont forget about ambient sfx). I have given my entire sfx library to the obsidian guys, why shouldnt I share it with you too.

Zed · Jul 18, 2012

quit the job, fuck the man.
make games or die trying.
become the man. the man people will refer to as the Shelter man.

peace bro.

eric__s · Jul 18, 2012

Go for it man, but be careful because Monster Land is already in use. I'd find out if the name is copyrighted if I were you.

Jaesun · Jul 18, 2012

Good luck shihonage! :salute:

Davaris · Jul 18, 2012

shihonage said:
It's official. I quit my job to work on games.

Holy wow... Well, your boss sounds like he is a bit of a dunce, so I think that company might be going out of business anyway.

Good luck with it and I look forward to seeing your progress on Shelter and Monsterland. Work hard and enjoy yourself.