Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[Hace El Oso]

You can't do anything right with religion in a medieval game unless you operate under the premise that people(generally not pagans) honestly took their faith seriously and weren't just LARPing for some grotesque god-king. Like Fanta says, a lot of the fun of these games relies on that.

 

[janjetina]

Can't they hire someone who knows something about the Catholic faith as a consultant? Like an actual Catholic perhaps?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

You can't do anything right with religion in a medieval game unless you operate under the premise that people(generally not pagans) honestly took their faith seriously and weren't just LARPing for some grotesque god-king.

Eh, you should make the distinction between official ('theological') religion and folk religion. Your average peasant did not understand the intricacies of the former and a heresy could've easily institutionalized itself as to replace it without too much protest from the masses.

As long as they make it extremely unlikely for the AI to make his own heresy, then it's quite historically accurate for the most part.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I recommend that you read The Cheese and the Worms, Hace El Oso.

You, Kz3r0, might also find it interesting.

 

[Hace El Oso]

Eh, you should make the distinction between official ('theological') religion and folk religion. Your average peasant did not understand the intricacies of the former and a heresy could've easily institutionalized itself as to replace it without too much protest from the masses.

As long as they make it extremely unlikely for the AI to make his own heresy, then it's quite historically accurate for the most part.

Of course there is a distinction, and allowing the player-ruler to make sweeping alterations to their religion(with little opposition beyond piety points I'm sure, it being a modern paradox game after all) fails to honestly represent the zeal of those common people and rather depicts them as unthinking automatons. It smacks of atheistic orientalism.

I recommend that you read The Cheese and the Worms, Hace El Oso.

You, Kz3r0, might also find it interesting.

Many of my fellows at university read it, I don't believe I have. I'll get it, thank you for the recommendation.

P.S.

For example, Islam is used to polyamory and will happily accept a new Faith espousing it.

 

[Axioms]

Eh, you should make the distinction between official ('theological') religion and folk religion. Your average peasant did not understand the intricacies of the former and a heresy could've easily institutionalized itself as to replace it without too much protest from the masses.

As long as they make it extremely unlikely for the AI to make his own heresy, then it's quite historically accurate for the most part.

Of course there is a distinction, and allowing the player-ruler to make sweeping alterations to their religion(with little opposition beyond piety points I'm sure, it being a modern paradox game after all) fails to honestly represent the zeal of those common people and rather depicts them as unthinking automatons. It smacks of atheistic orientalism.

I recommend that you read The Cheese and the Worms, Hace El Oso.

You, Kz3r0, might also find it interesting.

Many of my fellows at university read it, I don't believe I have. I'll get it, thank you for the recommendation.

P.S.

For example, Islam is used to polyamory and will happily accept a new Faith espousing it.

Those muslims, so very progressive!

Seeing as CK3 is cloning some of my ideas about international relations and espionage maybe they'll eventually have a DLC cloning the Ideology and Religion systems from Axioms.

 

[adrix89]

So I happened to browse bay12 for a bit today and I noticed that Paradox is using an at least superficially identical espionage system to the one I developed for Axioms Of Dominion. They even use the word Secrets in an identical way to my system. Of course the scope of my game allows for way cooler secrets. https://axioms-of-dominion.fandom.com/wiki/Secrets

And there are other functions that Paradox doesn't have the creativity to come up with. But still. Only took them 7 years to debut a concept with nearly identical functionality, for what functionality they have which isn't much, and an identical name. Granted the name is one of 4 or 5 "obvious" terms to use but still. Give them 10 years of DLC and they might get a system as detailed and nuanced as Axioms has/had.

Edit: I see they also have a system similar to my Government/Treaty/Charter system, although again in a massively scaled down way that suggests it is a placeholder for a system that is actually cool, called "Feudal Contracts".

Let's be honest here, nobody knows about your vaporware.
And you aren't a bastion of creativity either.
Neither of you are doing anything that interesting.

 

[M. AQVILA]

So bad. I already noticed the decline in CK2 and stopped playing it. It seems to be getting worse.

 

[Axioms]

So I happened to browse bay12 for a bit today and I noticed that Paradox is using an at least superficially identical espionage system to the one I developed for Axioms Of Dominion. They even use the word Secrets in an identical way to my system. Of course the scope of my game allows for way cooler secrets. https://axioms-of-dominion.fandom.com/wiki/Secrets

And there are other functions that Paradox doesn't have the creativity to come up with. But still. Only took them 7 years to debut a concept with nearly identical functionality, for what functionality they have which isn't much, and an identical name. Granted the name is one of 4 or 5 "obvious" terms to use but still. Give them 10 years of DLC and they might get a system as detailed and nuanced as Axioms has/had.

Edit: I see they also have a system similar to my Government/Treaty/Charter system, although again in a massively scaled down way that suggests it is a placeholder for a system that is actually cool, called "Feudal Contracts".

Let's be honest here, nobody knows about your vaporware.
And you aren't a bastion of creativity either.
Neither of you are doing anything that interesting.

Actually talked to a couple of Paradox employees back in 2015. But doesn't of course mean design devs would have heard of it.

 

[Theodora]

They actually seem to be doing something right with the religion for once... Even if it's just shitty modifier flip, it'd gonna be more than what CK2 had in that department. It makes me worry that they'll skimp on flavour though - once you start having dozens of religions, it starts being hard to make them all feel flavourful and distinct. Hopefully there'll be mods that'll improve it in that regard.

I mean I hooope they learned from imperator what skimping on flavour does.

 

[Life of the Party]

https://www.crusaderkings.com/news/dev-diary-22-a-medieval-tapestry

 

[Fedora Master]

All gender-related restrictions in CK3 are controlled by the Faiths, either directly or indirectly. As we have an awesome dynamic Faith system, all such restrictions can be changed during a playthrough. Our design philosophy for Faith Tenets related to gender has been to have the exact same options available for men and women. For example, the “View on Gender” Tenet has the settings “Male Dominated”, “Equal” and “Female Dominated”. All the restrictions for women in Male Dominated Faiths are applied to men instead in Female Dominated Faiths.

In addition to heterosexuality and homosexuality from CK2, characters can also be bisexual and asexual. Sexuality is no longer defined by a trait, but has its own system, which makes it easier to handle for us and more visible in the interface for you. It also means that we do not frame heterosexuality as the default in CK3, which was also important for us.

Changed my vote from meh to up yours.

 

[Alienman]

Sounds gay.

 

[Average Manatee]

How many DLCs until I can create my own gender the same way I can create my own religion?

I'd like to be a half-apache helicopter half-dragon half-otherkin and convert as many people as I can to my new gender.

 

[Axioms]

Wow this is so dumb. Heterosexuality would be the default in the middle ages. Also if everyone is gay and especially if major characters are gay, kinda ruins the dynasties. A human may make the choice to have their gay character get an heir but no way the AI does. And since personal relationships barely even matter in CK games, if you are gay but marry a wife/husband and breed anyways are you even really gay as far as game mechanics?

 

[Fedora Master]

Wow this is so dumb. Heterosexuality would be the default in the middle ages. Also if everyone is gay and especially if major characters are gay, kinda ruins the dynasties. A human may make the choice to have their gay character get an heir but no way the AI does. And since personal relationships barely even matter in CK games, if you are gay but marry a wife/husband and breed anyways are you even really gay as far as game mechanics?

HETEROSEXUALITY IS THE DEFAULT NO MATTER THE AGE.

 

[Luzur]

Wow this is so dumb. Heterosexuality would be the default in the middle ages. Also if everyone is gay and especially if major characters are gay, kinda ruins the dynasties. A human may make the choice to have their gay character get an heir but no way the AI does. And since personal relationships barely even matter in CK games, if you are gay but marry a wife/husband and breed anyways are you even really gay as far as game mechanics?

But hey ya know, the devs are city folks, gotta make that equality quota, im surprised they didnt add in "Gay Pride" parade events for your capitol

 

[gerey]

I'm not sure why people are upset. In fact, I welcome this change. Not only do I get more ways to persecute undesirables, but also more targets for my persecution.

 

[Aemar]

we’re catering to different player fantasies in CK3

Children develop their sexualities around the age of 10 and once set, it will not change.

 

[Theodora]

Wow this is so dumb. Heterosexuality would be the default in the middle ages. Also if everyone is gay and especially if major characters are gay, kinda ruins the dynasties. A human may make the choice to have their gay character get an heir but no way the AI does. And since personal relationships barely even matter in CK games, if you are gay but marry a wife/husband and breed anyways are you even really gay as far as game mechanics?

Your player character in CK2 can already be a flaming homo. Nothing said "everyone is gay", quit with the melodrama.

 

[Hace El Oso]

Your player character in CK2 can already be a flaming homo. Nothing said "everyone is gay", quit with the melodrama.

You cannot be serious. This stuff is even more detached from reality than Game of Thrones. It's bizarre. Want to play a bisexual dominatrix who is the head of her own medieval church? Great! Want to play as the commander of a crusading order? Sorry, cannot be done! Can't wait to get my medieval sultanate to accept their bisexual female rulers having harems of men and women. Exciting times.

For example, Islam is used to polyamory and will happily accept a new Faith espousing it.

All gender-related restrictions in CK3 are controlled by the Faiths, either directly or indirectly. As we have an awesome dynamic Faith system, all such restrictions can be changed during a playthrough. Our design philosophy for Faith Tenets related to gender has been to have the exact same options available for men and women. For example, the “View on Gender” Tenet has the settings “Male Dominated”, “Equal” and “Female Dominated”. All the restrictions for women in Male Dominated Faiths are applied to men instead in Female Dominated Faiths.

In addition to heterosexuality and homosexuality from CK2, characters can also be bisexual and asexual. Sexuality is no longer defined by a trait, but has its own system, which makes it easier to handle for us and more visible in the interface for you. It also means that we do not frame heterosexuality as the default in CK3, which was also important for us.

Can't wait to get my medieval sultanate to accept their bisexual female rulers having harems of men and women. Exciting times.​

 

[Theodora]

wow, really mindblowing that they used a common word to describe something. again, islam already had non-monogamy, you could already reform paganism and make your realm matriarchal.

there are popes that were evidently bisexual, and being ace isn't that interesting at all if you accept their premise that sexuality is formed early, and accept that trauma can be a cause of asexuality in humans.

please get over yourself with this culture wars nonsense. just because you want at pop media depiction of medieval euorpe doesn't mean it was ever any more real than what paradox is doing here.

 

[Axioms]

Wow this is so dumb. Heterosexuality would be the default in the middle ages. Also if everyone is gay and especially if major characters are gay, kinda ruins the dynasties. A human may make the choice to have their gay character get an heir but no way the AI does. And since personal relationships barely even matter in CK games, if you are gay but marry a wife/husband and breed anyways are you even really gay as far as game mechanics?

Your player character in CK2 can already be a flaming homo. Nothing said "everyone is gay", quit with the melodrama.

I don't care about non-hetero characters. W/e, people can do what they want. What is annoying is they could have been doing something mechanically interesting instead.

 

[Theodora]

I don't care about non-hetero characters. W/e, people can do what they want. What is annoying is they could have been doing something mechanically interesting instead.

In a game that is arguably primarily about the interpersonal drama of medieval dynasts, differing sexualities just aren't something you can make irrelevant except in the most tropified versions of history.

It may yet be mechanically interesting. Boo gays isn't a real argument against it.

 

[Fedora Master]

It's not about boo gays, it's about the obvious agenda pushing by a bunch of Swedish numales.