D&D Online

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Q: Why did you choose to call the game "D&D Online", knowing that a title like that can often lead to anger and disappointment with the current Dungeons & Dragons fans? Doesn't the name bind you too much to the original D&D ruleset, limiting your freedom in applying the rules to the mmorpg-genre? To give an example: don't you think quite some people will be disappointed about the real-time combat; whereas D&D is usually totally turn-based?

A: We get this question a lot, and it’s kind of suprising. Who WOULDN’T want to be Dungeons and Dragons Online? We don’t see the ruleset as limiting. To us, D&D is all about action and adventure. Battles and wars, savage beasts, earthshaking spells. The D&D ruleset does a good job of approximating real-time combats, so it naturally follows that if D&D characters are using D&D skills and abilities with D&D rules, except with actual realtime combat instead of fake realtime combat, it will still feel like D&D, and be great fun.

http://www.mmorpgdot.com/index.php?hsac ... 053&ID=813

 

Hey lets make a game and hire a complete idiot to make the game. the D20 is the one of those rules systems whose combat ONLY makes sense in TB. Pseudo RT does a half ass job at approximating but things like a 5 foot step and AoO don't make sense outside of TB. Furthermore, the rules of combat are define with TB in mind, how can it lend itself to RT?

 

Didn't have time to add any comments to my post yesterday, so here it is:

What the fuck is wrong with these people? I'm sick and tired reading all the bullshit they try to feed us. Why not say honestly that TB wouldn't work in MMORPG instead of tryiong to convincve everybody that DnD is a natural RT system :shock: and calling TB "fake RT" :shock: :shock: ? Is honesty as absolete as TB combat and quality gameplay in their minds?

 

The ironic part is that D&D was based largely on tabletop wargames, and is rooted in tactical and HOPEFULLY elaborate combat. You just can't have that in real time. Then again, this is such an idiotic idea, I can't see it being successful. Why pay $15 a month to get what NWN is giving away for free? Even with NWN's faults, it's still a far cry better than an MMORPG based on D&D would be.

Think about it like this, D&D ONLINE might have a huge world with gobs of players. But NWN has editors and a 64 player server limit. So, you can effectively make worlds as you go, or download more.. But even as large as D&D ONLINE might be, it's still finite.

It really amazes me that Atari even considered this.

 

I agree it doesn't make any sense. It's a shame that publishers waste money on this garbage while giving Troika such a short dev time and cutting their budget for voice acting. Sure, ToEE is not a great and awesome game like Arcanum or Fallout, but it could have been much much better which means it would have sold much much better.

More from the article:

I can only imagine: Terminator Online, SG-1 Online, Aliens Online, Harry Potter Online, and even Mallrats Online

I guess the Underdark has been milked completely as the darkest and the most dangerous place in the world. Those drow that haven't been killed over the years just don't give a fuck anymore

Wow, so they just sit and figured that out? Amazing. So, no, Saint, it aint gonna be a huge world. It's going to be just like NWN only you have to pay every month. :shock: Marketing in action

 

HA! Anything that makes you guys refer to NWN in even the 8slightest* positie light makes me smile.

And, oh, 100% agreed. I am *so* not buying this junk. :twisted:

 

Well, Volourn, even a DM mode, even if it's flawed, and an editor is still better than an MMORPG. On top of that, you have to pay a monthly fee?

Even when you don't consider the flaws in features, like the hardcoded limits that make the editors for NWN less useful than they were claimed to be, we're talking about two D&D games with online play. One is highly customizable and allows interactive editting of scenarios on the fly. The one that doesn't offer that has a monthly fee.

What's the monthly fee for? Playing the game with thousands of other people who won't be in your party anyway? Even in a stacked NWN server with 64 players, I bet people are still partying around with just 3-6 people.

There's just nothing I can see D&D Online offering other than Improved Wallet Drain that NWN doesn't offer and can offer better. I'd be amazed if most people don't see it this way as well, making this game a flop before it's even released.

 

LOL

 

Yup. Makes perfect sense and is homourous at the same time.

 

Question. This came about some time ago on another message board where i was discussing D&D implementation on a RT system. If i recall correctly, Bioware stated in BG1 they opted to do a RT system to accomodate online gaming; and now D&D Online apparently, being an MMORPG will stick to D&D in RT.

I'm guessing its to accomodate the usual fast-paced combat of online gaming. But. Why not create a TB system, to implement the rules better, and allow for more strategic combat; but at the same time, include a time-based feature for making movements? Meaning, instead of a whole battle scene depending on someone who plans their turn for 45 minutes, why not make it so every player-controlled character operates in TB, but is given a time limit to make their move? In that case, the player would be conditioned to act quickly, but still be given enough time to make a decision in combat. Something like 12 or 15 seconds to make a move. If the player acts within the time limit, he does his move and the next in the sequence goes after him. If a player takes too long, he is penalized by sitting still during an entire round, prone to enemy damage.

Is it just me, or this system could probably work instead of disrupting an entire system's rules?

 

That sounds like the most boring game imaginable. Face it, MMORPGs need real-time. 10 seconds doesn't sound long, but imagine a fight with 20 people in it - over 3 minutes between moves. And how would a computer know who was in the fight and who wan't if they were nearby? If someone started a duel in the middle of a social gathering, you could easily get 200+ people who were counted as 'in the fight' - yikes!

 

Problem is, any MMORPG is the most boring game imaginable...

 

I'm sure there could be a good one. But true, all the ones I have tried are too boring for me to play at the moment.

 

I used to play a MMORPG called "The Realms." Battles were handled TB, with a timer. Only the party would be involved with the battle, and loot was available to all following the fight. It was quick and enjoyable. It's too bad PKers overran the game.

 

Why should it? Perhaps you meant, gamers need real-time?

Which certainly is tolerable given the side effects of a full scale RT combat without strategy - player death. Spending a little more in tactics in combat doesn't hurt people, and might prevent players dying and having to backtrack. God knows the problems i got out of NWN's online combat. In the same way, NWN's pause feature often prevents players from entering the fray mindlessly - an impossibility online (except for Time Stop-like spells).

By implementing a minimum of distance. When a player aproached the other players, the system could have the new player counted towards the other player/group temporarily. And would have to wait until the battle was over to leave on his own (which in turn would stop players from stealing other's kills). Its not like its impossible.

This could be avoided by:

*Enabling PvP in social gatherings but disabling the minimum of distance: as in, the player that gets attacked first is counted as the only hostile target towards the initial attacker. To have it become an all-out brawlfest, either player would have to attack other player.
*Enabling PvP in social gathering but use an invitation system: as in, a player invites other to a duel to battle, and everyone else cannot interfere in their battle (unless notified/invited by either of the duelling players).
*Disabling PvP in social gathering.

And probably other ways i don't remember.

 

That seems interesting.

 

You are right that some people might enjoy such a system. But then again some people like Lionheart. Some people like Air Traffic Control games. Me, I'd run a mile from such a horrible system. And I suspect that most consumers would do so too. It might work as a fan-created and run thing, so that it doesn't actaully have to sell any copies.
Note that I generally only play turnbased or (at worst) pauseable realtime rpgs myself, so I am not biased against turn-based.
I don't like time-limited turn-based at all. I feel pressurized to move quickly, but at the same time I don't get the immersion that a real-time game can give. I'd say it is the worst of both worlds.

 

Perhaps consumers weren't so discerning at the time. This was approximately 5 years ago. At "the Realms's" height, it was quite popular, featuring a huge world that was constantly being updated with quests and events. I don't have any numbers as too how many players were on it at any one time, but it was a free download, had a subscription base of $5, and word of mouth spread it worldwide. The TB system worked, and very well.

Although I agree, I coudn't keep up with the timer, but that's because at that time, I didn't understand "hot keys."

 

More like 7, almost 8 years, not including the time it was in beta, which I've played it then and after it went retail. It wasn't that bad for the time, and the TB combat system made it possible to not get overwhelmed like in some other games. Guild events were fun and amusing to do, especially when someone's guild starts up something like an easter egg hunt and a critter picks up one of the items they were using.

 

Real Based or Turn Based is not the big problem.

The Big Problem in MMORPG are always the people.

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In ancient Athens there was a system that if a guy was very unpopular all the citizens could vote for the most unpopular person to exile him.

There were only negative votes.

That system is very much needed in MMORPG .

Vote to exile them in a PvP free for all griefer server.

Or the opposite.

Are they roleplaying perfectly ?

Vote for them to go to a roleplaying server WITH SLIGHTLY BETTER DROPS.

 

Ostracizing? That's possible in *drumroll* SWG. If you live in a player city, that is. You can even kill the bugger on sight or simply ban 'em from all buildings. [it is a vote, since the mayor is elected via a simple majority vote from the citizenship] Doesn't ATITD have several features centered around this, as well?

-- Z.
"I'll just get me coat..."

 

Thank you. I'm glad that someone knows what I'm talking about. The last time that I played the game was April of 2000. So 5 years ago wasn't that accurate. The next time I checked it out, maybe last year, I heard that the PKers drove everyone out of the game. Correct me if you heard otherwise.

 

There's been PKers all over the game, but PvP is a toggle switch that you can get set one way or the other to avoid PKs. That may have changed since I've played, I don't know.

 

There is plenty of scope for tactics in a real-time combat situation, unless someone wants to claim that actual, meatspace combat is somehow turn-based or not tactical.

TB combat gives more time for consideration. This is double-edged. On the positive side it gives greater weight to tactical decisions over reactions or speccing. On the negative side, it interrupts the flow of the game.

In a SP game the downside can manifest itself through cumbersome/dull combat operations, which to some extent can be countered with a slick interface. In an MMORPG the need for each player to make a decision before the turn can proceed could cause serious stuttering of combat and break it entirely.

 

I would just like to take the time to award Visionary for the most hilarious typo of a game construct I've seen this year.

Meatspace Combat.