Daggerfall, fucking Daggerfall

[Lonely Vazdru]

You may want to tag Sceptic (@ before username) for a faster answer. As for your question I can immediately think of the final quest, in which you can give the ultimate magic item to different major NPCs and get different game endings.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

You may want to tag Sceptic (@ before username) for a faster answer. As for your question I can immediately think of the final quest, in which you can give the ultimate magic item to different major NPCs and get different game endings.

I was going to say the same. I'm playing this game right now, and there aren't multiple solutions to any of the quests except the main one. Some of the side quests sometimes have you choosing between two different sides, but that's more of a decision point I suppose. When you have a quest to go get a McGuffin, you could kill everyone who gets in your way, or use magic or stealth to bypass the opposition and claim the object.

The main quest has multiple branches, however, so you can tell a faction to go take a hike and follow a different lead which will take you down a different adventure path. I decided I didn't much like a certain Lady Morgiah and what she was proposing, so I ditched her request entirely and followed the directions of a slightly less evil noble and am almost finished with the game now. I believe I could tell this second faction to piss off and try to find a third or fourth. I don't want to accidentally break the main quest trying to find this out, however.

 

[bobdakilla]

Thanks Lonely Vazdru I didn't know about this feature: Sceptic

I've only completed one third of the main quest so far (and none of the side quests, I think). That might explain why I haven't seen yet the problems with multiple solutions Sceptic is talking about...

 

[bobdakilla]

Hi Deuce Traveler

In Fallout 1 for instance, if you had to deliver a hostage, you had the choice between :

-use the force
-infiltrate the camp at night
-intimidate the gang leader
-provoke a duel with the gang leader
-pay a ransom

Daggerfall isn't as complex as this, is it ?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Hi Deuce Traveler

In Fallout 1 for instance, if you had to deliver a hostage, you had the choice between :

-use the force
-infiltrate the camp at night
-intimidate the gang leader
-provoke a duel with the gang leader
-pay a ransom

Daggerfall isn't as complex as this, is it ?

Negative on that. Although Daggerfall is an excellent game in its own right, it doesn't hold a candle to Fallout 1 when it comes to quest complexity. The quests usually break down to find item X, kill bad guy Y, or deliver item or message to Person Z. The quests are so specific that they do not allow for variation.

 

[Sceptic]

I was going to say the same. I'm playing this game right now, and there aren't multiple solutions to any of the quests except the main one.

Actually some of the city side quests have some quite complex branching depending on what you do. I forget which one now can end up turning into a dungeon crawl depending on how you handle the city part. Not all of them are just limited to "kill or stealth" type of choice.

Although Daggerfall is an excellent game in its own right, it doesn't hold a candle to Fallout 1 when it comes to quest complexity. The quests usually break down to find item X, kill bad guy Y, or deliver item or message to Person Z. The quests are so specific that they do not allow for variation.

I think the strength in DF is not in the structure of the individual quests, or even how they interact with each other, but in the factions, and the quests are indirectly associated because they almost always affect your standing with multiple factions. This is most apparent in the MQ, as you've already pointed out, but many of the sidequests also follow similar patterns. In some cases, I think with a couple of Mage Guild quests, you can actually side against the guild in the quest, which opens up additional followups later on. Like everything else in DF, the quest/faction structure is extremely ambitious but unfinished. Fallout works better because it is a much more compact but much tighter game, and everything fits with everything else extremely well as a result. I don't like the comparison because I love both games for very different reasons - the strength of one tends to be something the other doesn't even bother attempting.

 

[bobdakilla]

Thank you very much

So, if your only options to complete the quests are by fighting or by stealth, can one consider Daggerfall as being more a doom clone (such as Heretic or Hexen) containing RPG elements rather than a true RPG. Or perhaps as being more an open-worlded dungeon crawler, if you will.
Or am I completely wrong ?..

 

[bobdakilla]

Oh, hi Sceptic

I see we have posted at the same time. I'm reading your message right now.

 

[bobdakilla]

Actually some of the city side quests have some quite complex branching depending on what you do. I forget which one now can end up turning into a dungeon crawl depending on how you handle the city part. Not all of them are just limited to "kill or stealth" type of choice..

Okay.
I should put more effort into the side quests then. The dungeons of the main quest are so hard that they take me all my time and my energy, though.

I think the strength in DF is not in the structure of the individual quests, or even how they interact with each other, but in the factions, and the quests are indirectly associated because they almost always affect your standing with multiple factions. This is most apparent in the MQ, as you've already pointed out, but many of the sidequests also follow similar patterns. In some cases, I think with a couple of Mage Guild quests, you can actually side against the guild in the quest, which opens up additional followups later on. Like everything else in DF, the quest/faction structure is extremely ambitious but unfinished. Fallout works better because it is a much more compact but much tighter game, and everything fits with everything else extremely well as a result. I don't like the comparison because I love both games for very different reasons - the strength of one tends to be something the other doesn't even bother attempting.

I see your point.
However, having the freedom to solve the problems the way I want is really the very first thing I expect from an RPG - and Daggerfall doesn't meet my expectations in this domain.
I will complete it anyway because the atmosphere is great, thanks to the wonderful soundtrack of Eric Heberling who is a hell of a good composer.

 

[Sceptic]

I should put more effort into the side quests then. The dungeons of the main quest are so hard that they take me all my time and my energy, though.

I don't recommend trying to do a "completionist" playthrough of Daggerfall where you try to tackle all the quests. It's guaranteed to wear you out and it's not the way this game is meant to be played. Remember that you don't have to accept a quest that's offered - if you don't like it, or if it's a straight-up dungeon crawl and you tire of these, reject it. Keep rejecting until you get something that could be different or interesting. If you tire of the quest halfway through, stop it, and let its duration expire. You need to play Daggerfall very differently from the way we've been conditioned to play CRPGs after decades of the same structure. Even Morrowind went back to a more traditional structure, though it shifted this "go where you want, not where you think the game wants you to" approach to exploration instead of quest flow.

Nevertheless, having the freedom to solve the problems the way I want is really the very first thing I expect from an RPG

It's one many share with you I'm sure, and I could accept it for non-computer RPGs, but I completely reject it as a CRPG requirement. Considering it a requirement for CRPGs means throwing out more than half of the best games, and almost all of the 80s gems. Besides, the games that offer you true freedom in approaching problems can be counted on one hand (even something like Oblivion would fail miserably due to massive scripting limiting many creative approaches - essential NPCs being the least of its sins).

I will complete it anyway because the atmosphere is great, thanks to the wonderful soundtrack of Eric Heberling who is a hell of a good composer.

There are several reasons to play DF I think. Exploring the faction system, getting lost in labyrinthine dungeons (yeah, I have a masochistic streak), puzzling together the absolutely delightful political story (so complex even the hintbook gets it wrong), toying around with character creation (though Battlespire's is better IMO), and yes, the atmosphere; the music really is fantastic. I hope you're playing this with a good soundfont.

 

[bobdakilla]

By the way, thank you everyone for your time

 

[bobdakilla]

I don't recommend trying to do a "completionist" playthrough of Daggerfall where you try to tackle all the quests. It's guaranteed to wear you out and it's not the way this game is meant to be played. Remember that you don't have to accept a quest that's offered - if you don't like it, or if it's a straight-up dungeon crawl and you tire of these, reject it. Keep rejecting until you get something that could be different or interesting. If you tire of the quest halfway through, stop it, and let its duration expire. You need to play Daggerfall very differently from the way we've been conditioned to play CRPGs after decades of the same structure. Even Morrowind went back to a more traditional structure, though it shifted this "go where you want, not where you think the game wants you to" approach to exploration instead of quest flow.

Thank you very much for this advice I'll definitely keep it in mind and try to follow it.

Considering it a requirement for CRPGs means throwing out more than half of the best games, and almost all of the 80s gems.

Well, that's what I do, indeed - you're right about this. But I really don't have enough time to play all those games anyway, and above all, I play CPRGs that can remind me the Pen & Paper RPGs I played years ago.

I hope you're playing this with a good soundfont.

I run it on an old PC containing a SoundBlaster 16 card.
I'm satisfied with the result so far.

 

[abnaxus]

There are quests where you need to accompany a NPC somewhere in a dungeon, but those are rare.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I run it on an old PC containing a SoundBlaster 16 card.
I'm satisfied with the result so far.

Welcome to the Codex !

 

[Darth Roxor]

I forget which one now can end up turning into a dungeon crawl depending on how you handle the city part. Not all of them are just limited to "kill or stealth" type of choice.

One example is the generic sidequest where a random person sends you off to the house of his 'master' who turns out to be an assassin. If you twiddle your thumbs too much before killing him, he casts a spell that puts you in a (often terribly bugged) dunjin.

 

[Karwelas]

I never played Daggerfall, but I really want to. Any tips and things like that for newfag?

 

[Darth Roxor]

always shop for clothes

 

[Ellef]

http://wiwiki.wiwiland.net/index.php?title=Daggerfall_:_DaggerfallSetup_EN

As a fellow Daggerfall newfriend, make a custom class, make sure you're good with a melee weapon (long or short sword preferred) and if you're a dedicated magic user, the absorption trait is recommended. Answer the background questions and take the ebony dagger and cuirass for easier times.

Right hand wall method is good for not getting lost but you won't need to worry about that in the tutorial dungeon.

If you've played morrowind or arena you should know how to handle the rest in getting started.

 

[Elwro]

I vagualey remember that some Knight (not Fighters Guild) faction can give you a quest to rescue a child or sth, during which you may find a witch coven in the dungeon and choose whether to rescue the child or take up some witch quests instead. (And yes, it's a 'generic' quest.)

 

[Ellef]

so i'm seeing LP on youtube where the graphics look way cleaner than mine.

Spoiler

Do you guys mess around with scaler settings or anything in dosbox for daggerfall?

 

[bobdakilla]

One example is the generic sidequest where a random person sends you off to the house of his 'master' who turns out to be an assassin. If you twiddle your thumbs too much before killing him, he casts a spell that puts you in a (often terribly bugged) dunjin.

I vagualey remember that some Knight (not Fighters Guild) faction can give you a quest to rescue a child or sth, during which you may find a witch coven in the dungeon and choose whether to rescue the child or take up some witch quests instead. (And yes, it's a 'generic' quest.)

So the game doesn't offer a lot of possibilities to solve the problems, but at least some of the quests can have different conclusions triggered by diverse factors.
That's good to know - thanks

 

[Elwro]

Actually, now that I remember more: there can actually some nice twists in some Knight Faction rescue missions. I'm not spoiling more

 

[Miner Arobar]

I never played Daggerfall, but I really want to. Any tips and things like that for newfag?

Thing about Daggerfall is that the scale is completely ridiculous (with its thousand of similar towns, and hundreds of thousands of similar NPCs all having names you can't remember like "Berendina Mickelthwaite" or something) so you might want, after the first few quests (up to meeting the emperor's agent) settle down in one of the smaller provinces like Tulune or Koegria, and just do faction quests. The number of dungeons in these provinces is manageable, so you might find yourself directed to a dungeon you already basically know (and there is really no lack of dungeons in Daggerfall).

 

[worldsmith]

I hope you're playing this with a good soundfont.

I played Daggerfall shortly after it came out. Sent the MIDI to my Korg 03R/W. Sounded way better than the soundcards of the day (and still way better than many of the horrible soundfonts floating around - yes, I'm talking about you MuseScore).

 

[TripJack]

so i'm seeing LP on youtube where the graphics look way cleaner than mine.


Do you guys mess around with scaler settings or anything in dosbox for daggerfall?

post a screenshot of how your game looks?

usually the settings you want in your dosbox.conf are
output=openglnb (or output=overlay)
fullresolution=desktop
aspect=true
scaler=none