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From Software Dark Souls 3

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by Makabb, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. Ventidius Savant

    Ventidius
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    I think it's more than that. Can't think of any area in DS3 that puts you through as much crap before its bonfires as Iron Keep, Earthen Peak, or Amana Shrine, just to name a few. It's not so much the distance as the density and structure of content between bonfires. DS1 and especially DS2 were much better at coming up with challenging self-contained set pieces. I think it's very hard to argue that DS3 did not streamline the level design of the series, though it can still be appreciated for its combat (which in many ways was an improvement) and its excellent bosses.
     
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  2. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    I was just exaggerating, but DS3's level designs left much to be desired. One most prominent example where the replacement of the bonfires are rather dumb is when you first descend from the High Wall down to Undead Settlement. You're immediately greeted by a bonfire, and past that you can go forward to progress or turn around, walk until you arrive at the end of broken bridge and speak with an NPC. If you go forward to progress, you'll meet some enemies, past a gate and.... you arrive at the next bonfires. I can only vaguely remember it, but a lot of the levels in the game are designed this way, which is extreme opposite of how DS1 handled its best levels. There are some places in DS3 where they seemed inspired by DS1 level designs, like Cathedral of the Deep and iirc latter parts of Lothric Castle after Dragonslayer Armor, but they're few and far between.
     
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  3. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    The flipside is, early in the game you only have a few estus, so going through 30 enemies between bonfires would be pretty brutal. And DS2 gave you infinite healing between bonfires, so it didn't really matter how far they were spread out. DS1 had a happy medium, where you didn't have unlimited healing but kindling a bonfire gave you 10 estus, which is quite a lot.

    Some of the bonfires in DS3 were definitely extraneous like that one at the start of the undead settlement you'll never go back to and barely have to fight anything to reach the next fire, which is in plain sight. But I don't really see it as a problem either. If they take it out, what does it change? You need to watch a cutscene to get to it if you happened to die? There's no enemies between it and Vordt.

    And I think the addition of bonfires after each boss is a good one, since it lets you continue exploring instead of having to choose between the safe tedium of backtracking to spend your souls (and then back backtracking to the boss to go forward again) or actually seeing a new area while you're still excited from your victory.
     
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  4. Ventidius Savant

    Ventidius
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    Yeah, the issue of resource management is a good point. I want to say that its implementation of a degenerate system of healing consumables is one of the biggest flaws of the game, but then again I doubt that they would have made the level design as punishing as it was in DS2 without it. Nevertheless, it is also possible to overstate the importance of this, as these are very high-lethality games in any case, and not being able to get through at all because of some tricky situation was arguably as often a problem in advancing in DS2 as running out of Estus was in DS3. For example, no amount of extra consumables was gonna save you in Shrine of Amana if you fell down the chasm while being distracted by an enemy. The "tactical puzzles" were very crafty in DS2, and perhaps the only downside was that they got weaker on replays when you knew what to expect.

    It's probably also worth pointing out that I personally prefer to use restraint and not abuse the consumables in DS2, but we all know that self-imposed rules are irrelevant when discussing game design quality.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  5. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    I'm thinking of not just taking it out, but change the entire level designs completely. Honestly, a cutscene where we're shown our character being carried by the gargoyles is such a nostalgia bait I'd rather this scrapped off completely. Instead, in the spirit of Dark Souls 1 I'd rather scale down the High Wall to Undead Settlement on foot, and from here I would like they make the world open up sooner while unlocking shortcuts here and there. This is an entirely different topic, but my point is I was expecting the level designs and world designs to be more faithful to Dark Souls 1.
     
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  6. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Well, I can't argue with wanting more DS1 world design. I kept thinking of DS1 Taurus Demon > get wrecked by dragon moment in DS1. I don't think making you walk back to taurus demon after getting nuked there really adds anything to the game, but at the same time, when you get to the shortcut back to your same fucking bonfire through the bridge, it's pretty awesome. OTOH, if you happened to go across the bridge instead of down the bonfire and died, you're in a pretty shitty situation. But the base mechanics kind of fix this for you- if you go too far without seeing a bonfire to the point you die twice and lose all your souls, you're now incentivized to try a different path and realize there was a bonfire nearby all along. It works pretty well as a self correcting difficulty mechanic. Though some of the bonfires were in pretty retarded places. I missed quite a few in DS1 on my first run through. DS2 had a lot of super gamey bonfires, like that one next to the rotten so you can farm him with ascetics.
     
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  7. CthuluIsSpy Arcane

    CthuluIsSpy
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    So, I think I might be one of those crazy people who thinks Dark Souls 3 plays better with Mouse and Keyboard than controller.
    I tried using a controller and I found the control scheme to be clunky. At first I thought it was because I don't use controllers all that often, but the I played through Nier Automata and DMC 5 with a controller, and that actually felt natural.
    Playing DS3 on a controller felt wrong.
     
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