From Software Dark Souls 3

This is true. And don't need to be shy, say it loud. Got my PS4 to play Bloodborne and never regretted it. It's my most played souls game ever.

And let's be honest, it's more fun to play than DS1. DS1 may be a better game from a platonic POV but in truth most players drop the game after Lordvessel and half of those don't come back. Bloodborne simply doesn't have such a drop in quality, it's consistently amazing from start to finish.

 

Bro, seriously...

Anyway, all those comparisons always sounded silly to me. DeS, DS1, DS2, Bloodborne, Sekiro....the truth is they're all high quality games. All of them have their own objective strengths and weaknesses, all of them have aspects that different people will subjectively prefer, but they're all equally amazing.

 

Bloodborne is equivalent to playing Dark Souls 3 with Straight Swords only.

Some people love that, some people don't however that's easily the worst thing about DaS3 combat.

By the way: Dancer, Gundyr, Princess and Nameless are top-tier fights if done properly (medium level without summons).

 

Dark Souls combat started out pretty solid, but they really should've gone the Sekiro-route earlier with parries, and changed the rolls to sidestep dodging. I mean who the hell actually rolls in combat, it looks so retarded.

But really action games need to go beyond this. Timed parrying/dodging is better than clickfest we had before, but it's time to move on to more complicated stuff. Chaining attacks and defenses into dynamic combos, some kind of a battle for control/initiative/etc.

There are so many ways of doing more interesting stuff than just relying on reflexes and roll spams.

 

That's right. I've finished Bloodborne 5 times, with the expansion - compared to essentially finishing DS twice, and DS2 & 3 only once. I even played feverishly into those stupid chalice donjons for long hours, although I don't exactly recommend it universally. It is still the perfect Fromsoft game, especially if you're into horror and Lovecraft.

 

Here, BB "straight sword" entering your mom's ass:

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While fans of the later Souls games bicker with each other, we Demon's Souls fans will chill with the Maiden in Black.



Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel.
Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended.
Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel.
Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended,
so the world might be mended.

Soul of the mind, key to life's ether.
Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel.
Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended.
So the world might be mended.

 

DeS bosses don't hold up in 2020. A lot of the design and atmosphere however does which is why FROM spent four games rehashing it every way they could.

I guess this is one of the reasons Sekiro is refreshing is that its less beholden to formalizing the environment/encounter design from DeS. Bloodborne feels like a failure in this respect. Even though the RPG elements have been rationalized further they cripple it from being an action game, and simultaneously the increased player mobility is not realized enough. The rally mechanic encourages poor choices but the alternates are awkward. Dropping flask for limited regen is thematically consistent but would also be degenerate if not for the rally mechanic (basically back to DeS grasses). Taken together you have an attempt to formally incentivize the player into treating engagements aggressively but the only extra tool given is the DS3 quickstep. The design is muddled and experimental by comparison to Sekiro, which is almost pedagogical the way every encounter imparts information. Once you are confident enough with the systems, you can use this information and the game is exhilarating. Bloodborne is 'dumber' in this respect, the attempt to produce greater or compounding dynamics by incentivizing player aggression works except when it doesn't. It's clear why FROM experimented with inverting this mechanic for Sekiro (deflect nullifies damage but is active as it decrements enemy posture gauge) and also why doing so swept away the RPG elements that were not compelling.

I hope they keep this shit up, as I think they have refined their state of the art immensely in just one leap. I doubt Elden Ring will be as ambitious from the way its being discussed, but maybe they will again do something cool on the side.

 

I'd argue that Demon's has the least repetitious lineup of bosses in the series and as such, they hold up extremely well.

 

to elaborate they don't hold up in gameplay terms. they really are not responsive or interactive or even threatening today. sorry but there it is.

don't take it personally the game is 11 years old. maybe they have beguiling depth in some other way. armor spider is a very complicated and scholastic concept i suppose

 

I didn't say they weren't simplistic, but they're varied and present different experiences. 20 or so bosses that all do something a little different holds up far, far better over time than 20 bosses who all succumb to the roll button.


Edit: This is why people who complained about "gimmick" bosses back when DS3 came out drove me up the wall. Granted, you may not like The Deacons or Wolnir or the elbow drop dragon, but at least it's something to do besides "Artorias, but worse and with no buildup" like the other bosses offered up.

 

this made my ribbies hurt after my workout.

 

i don't mean to embarrass you but there is a roll button in demon souls as well

guess what

its super effective

 

Yes, the roll button is very effective against Maiden Astraea.

 

good thing there are twenty of her throughout the game for variety's sake

 

Nah, Bloodborne is still the series' sweet spot between action and freedom of choice. Quickstep works like butter and regain promotes aggression without forcing it, thus keeping choices open. Love Sekiro but it's too much Guitar Hero with gimmicks to ignore parts of track if you wish. It works and fits the smaller scope katana-clashing setting well, but If they reuse this concept in the future they better "open it up" in some way.

About DS3... well, this is the real failure in terms of attempting to actionify the gameplay, as it meshed together parts that don't make sense together (fast rolling with little stamina loss), resulting in retardo design. If they wanted fast dodge they should go with BB stylish quick step, and if they wanted rolls they should have kept it awkward and costly like in DeS/DS1. That said, DS3 is worth it for some bosses and the closure it gives to the series lore, which is well done let's admit. But the overall experience pales in comparison to the behemoths that are DeS, DS1 and BB.

 

This. There were also tons of other half-assed features but whatever.

Also DS3 is probably, kindda worth it for both the DLCs. The combat is still stupid but at least the level design is by FromSoft again instead of some third rate Chink contractor.

 

Notice it's not retarded only from a aesthetic POV: I don't remember other entry in the series where you can just roll and roll gratuitously like in DS3. It makes the kinda humanoid duels I love so much in BB and Sekiro look pathetic, with people barrel rolling like mad. I dropped PvP in disgust when I realized this.

 

I just bought DS3 Deluxe for $12.71 on sale at GreenManGaming. Seems worth it.

 

Tell me more about PvP in BB.

 

You could absolutely roll like a madman in DeS. You just needed the right gear for it. Stamina grass honestly just makes the whole mechanic shit in every game it's in. It lets people in heavy armor move like they're naked and naked people move like anime characters.

 

Come on Toro. BB has free quickstep yes, but its more an action game, there's no load, poise, etc. Everything supports that premise. The experience feels cohesive, and cool. DS3 OTOH has all the trappings of a more realistic/sim experience like DS1 but then behaves like BB. And worst: it keeps barrel rolling which feels bizarre in this faster actiony setup.

If you need a combo of gear + items to barrel rolling like mad, then the game by default doesn't allow you barrel rolling like mad. Right?

 

It's too fast, too spammy, too brainless, people have way too many health vials and applying them is way to quick. Plus the bell system is a cop out to invasion whiners. And the build variety is terrible.

I watched heaps of BB playthroughs where streamers who normally seek out PvP in DS games always avoided it like a plague. Watched a battle once - two idiots jumping around like monkeys, spamming the gun parry, jabbing themselves with vials like it's a liquid crack. This went on for like 10 minutes, then one guy just jumped off a cliff. It's a clown show.

 

So none of them do? You need the right gear to roll spam in any of the games.

 

Damned Registrations , Dark Souls 3 is a barrel rolling fest out of the gate.

Cvv, you don't like what BB tries to do. That's fair. But most who appreciate what it tries do finds it amazing. That's the point.

The comparison I'm making is from the POV of those who acknowledges each game design goals and appreciate them all in some measure. From this POV, DS3 design feels the weaker, exactly for trying to mix things from other games that don't fit together.

P.S: You know a game that does something I don't care? Nioh. Shitty levels. Generic story and lore. Diablo-like loot management. The only thing that I like in it are the different weapons and forms. Luckly, For Honor gives me that free from the shitty stuff.