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From Software Dark Souls PVP can suck my balls

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,983
198 cracked red orbs so you can switch to darkmoon covenant and then invade with orbs and kill people with darkmoon blade as a dickwraith.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,983
Tbh even getting 30 ears as a darkmoon would be less work than farming all the fucking scales for dragon covenant. I hope DS2 doesn't have any retarded 'farm for 60 hours to join properly' covenants.
 

Karellen

Arcane
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
327
I can vouch for that. I never got into PvP in Demon's Souls either so I never got used to invasions, never learned the tactics, and I feared and loathed invaders as long as I played the game. I guess that's the point though. I think people who complain about the PvP mechanics are mainly the ones who go looking for it, in which case maybe DS is not the right game for that.

Let me make sure I got you right though: If I am invaded, and I have not sinned, and I am not in Dark Anor Londo, and I am not in Darkroot Garden, and I did not touch a red soul sign, the invader must be a Darkwraith? Which means they will most likely have better equipment but lower stats than me. That would make sense because I can't remember the last time I was invaded by someone who wasn't wielding some kind of giant sword.

Also, apparently I need to become a Darkwraith.

well, he doesn't have to be a Darkwraith per se. he can still use cracked red orbs and invade "under darkwraith rules" (i.e. invade hosts 10 or 10% or 10+10%, i forget, levels above him). "lower stats" are a relative concept. sure, he can be 5lvls below you but that could mean you, for example, you have 5more att than him, which won't mean much. although due to the broken matchmaking mechanics the difference can be much higher (i.e. a SL1 DW invading a SL120 host. the inverse can also be true for Darkmoons (DM rules for invasion are the same as DW, but "downwards"), but that big a disparity seems to be much, much rarer)

Yeah. Strictly speaking, Darkwraiths can invade within their level range and indefinitely upwards. The "level range" calculation is Soul Level +/- (10 + 10% of Soul Level), which means that it's possible to be invaded by a Darkwraith a bit over ten levels higher than you are. Practically speaking, though, Darkwraiths who invade normal players tend to be on a low-ish level, for reasons which become clear if you consult the Sunbro Co-op Chart:

1323119782398.jpg


Basically, for invaders, the game is more fun the more people they get to invade. This being the case, the best places to invade are the places where people co-op the most, which is the stretch from Undead Parish to Anor Londo. After that, co-op gets less popular because players are already battle-hardened, the bosses aren't terribly difficult and there's no clear level range for the areas, so it's harder to find co-op partners anyway. Even if invading in, say, New Londo or the Tomb of the Giants can be pretty epic, as a Darkwraith it's often difficult to find anyone to invade - you'll have more fun if you can switch to the early to mid-game once you get bored. This puts the sweet spot for a Darkwraith squarely around SL 20–40, unless you can be bothered to make multiple characters. Even then, once you're past SL50 or so, you'll increasingly encounter people who are dueling rather than trying to progress in the single-player game, particularly now that the game is two years old - not as many new players around as there used to be. At this point, you'll often be outmatched and might as well make a real duelist build at a decent Soul Level instead.

The way the multiplayer changes depending on your level is kind of complex, since it's basically an emergent phenomenon in the online community, rather than something that was planned out by the devs. Still, the result is that people tend to have a "career" spanning several types of multiplayer as they go through the game. Well, that's how it worked out for me, anyway - you start off being hounded by overpowered Darkwraiths once you accidentally enter Human form, then you do a little co-op, slowly getting more comfortable with invaders after venturing to the Darkroot Garden and finding out there are people who are even worse at it than you. You test the waters by allying with gankers to learn the ropes of PvP, get bored and switch to a Forest Hunter and learn the bitter taste of defeat. Eventually, you figure out how to fight multiple opponents and how to cheese with backstabs, Pyromancy and Dark Sorcery. Tiring of the forest, you start to wait for Darkwraiths to fight them, learning the properties of different areas and testing out silly spells for variety. Wanting to be on the offensive, you become a Darkmoon Hunter to fight in Blighttown, Anor Londo, Oolacile Township and any place where you can find sinners to punish, until you tire of all the failed invasions and disappointing opponents and start to duel using the Red Sign Soapstone instead. Soon you come to see that actual dueling is a crapshoot full of lagstabs, gankers and magic cheese, finally becoming jaded enough to make a fresh low-level Darkwraith character and torment new players in the Undead Parish - and so the circle begins anew.

Good times! I hope Dark Souls II will be as memorable, though ideally not as messed up and confusing.
 

Servo

Arcane
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,479
Location
1988
I take it all back. PVP is fun once you become Darkwraith.

Darkmoon kinda sucks tho.
 

Servo

Arcane
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,479
Location
1988
Turns out Darkwraith sucks too. At least if you have a slow as molasses connection like I do, I just get lagged to death everywhere. Oh well, back to co-op I guess.

Except co-op isn't much better. I always have to wait and wait. It would be cool if you could advance the single player campaign while waiting to be summoned, but my soul sign disappears if I wander off too far. Darkmon/forest covenants kinda solve this problem with their rings but you end up wasting a ring slot, and you always get summoned at the worst times.

I sorta went through the whole online "career" @Karalleen described in just a few weeks.
 

Random

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
2,812
Turns out Darkwraith sucks too. At least if you have a slow as molasses connection like I do, I just get lagged to death everywhere. Oh well, back to co-op I guess.

Except co-op isn't much better. I always have to wait and wait. It would be cool if you could advance the single player campaign while waiting to be summoned, but my soul sign disappears if I wander off too far. Darkmon/forest covenants kinda solve this problem with their rings but you end up wasting a ring slot, and you always get summoned at the worst times.

I sorta went through the whole online "career" @Karalleen described in just a few weeks.

Having a bad connection is a bitch no matter what you try to play online. Though some of the waiting for co-op has to do with there not being any players who want to summon you in the area you're in on the server you're on. The game will slowly cycle your sign through servers, but that means the chance for your sign vanishing just before a player can summon you is there. I've found that waiting a minute or so before dropping the sign again has the best results, because if you put the sign down again the server you're connected to for co-op will change automatically.
 

agentorange

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,256
Location
rpghq (cant read codex pms cuz of fag 2fa)
Codex 2012
I had 3 Black Phantom encounters today, while trying to take down Smough and Ornstein (attempting to get Ornstein's soul...really should have done it before NG+): the first one somehow managed to backstab me immediately as I rolled, not sure how that works, but I guess it was lag; second one just spammed Pursuers the whole time and I couldn't do shit against him; last one was a noble one-on-one sword fight (he used black tar, I used Sunlight Blade) , and was quite close, I ended up losing because I stupidly used an R2 attack out of a roll instead of R1. It sucks because the final fight is the kind of pvp I can't get in any other game, and is very fun, but the other two were just pointless wastes of time. I wouldn't mind at all if backstabs were disabled in pvp, it's just too easily abused considering the amount of lag, and even without lag it just seems to encourage people to roll around trying for backstabs instead of having a real fight.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Turns out Darkwraith sucks too. At least if you have a slow as molasses connection like I do, I just get lagged to death everywhere. Oh well, back to co-op I guess.

Except co-op isn't much better. I always have to wait and wait. It would be cool if you could advance the single player campaign while waiting to be summoned, but my soul sign disappears if I wander off too far. Darkmon/forest covenants kinda solve this problem with their rings but you end up wasting a ring slot, and you always get summoned at the worst times.

I sorta went through the whole online "career" @Karalleen described in just a few weeks.

Having a bad connection is a bitch no matter what you try to play online. Though some of the waiting for co-op has to do with there not being any players who want to summon you in the area you're in on the server you're on. The game will slowly cycle your sign through servers, but that means the chance for your sign vanishing just before a player can summon you is there. I've found that waiting a minute or so before dropping the sign again has the best results, because if you put the sign down again the server you're connected to for co-op will change automatically.

This is one reason Demon's Souls is superior: dedicated server.

Even now I can STILL find people to play that game with co-op.
 

Quatlo

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
941
(..)last one was a noble one-on-one sword fight
The easiest way to find such pvp is in darkroot I think, faggots happen but not so often and if they do they usually suck.

I wouldn't mind at all if backstabs were disabled in pvp, it's just too easily abused considering the amount of lag, and even without lag it just seems to encourage people to roll around trying for backstabs instead of having a real fight.

Backstabs aren't that annoying when you learn how to deal with them, the biggest faggots are turtles who just wait for you to attack them, recoil from their shield and then "punish" (because obviously dying from boredom is some kind of critical punishable error in their little minds) with mlg hornet ring backstabu. If you don't know how to deadangle you'd better have a shotel with you or otherwise you are fucked.

Funny how always people think the best way to be "good" in pvp in any game is to abuse bugs and crutches like dead angles and weapon switching to avoid stunlocks because people can't parry for shit. Parrying mlg ninja flippers is the best fun I had in any game this year, its just priceless.
 

Servo

Arcane
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,479
Location
1988
Having a bad connection is a bitch no matter what you try to play online.

You're right. I shouldn't single DS out.

Though some of the waiting for co-op has to do with there not being any players who want to summon you in the area you're in on the server you're on.

I discovered a couple other reasons co-op can be hard to get into. For one, if your soul level is outside the range for the area you're in you probably won't get summoned. For example, I was trying to co-op in New Londo Ruins around SL 70 but most people encounter that area at a lower SL I think. Unless they are working on Four Kings, in which case I don't know why I can't seem to get summoned there.

Two, if it's a crap boss fight like Bed of Chaos you probably won't get summoned. I stood around trying to co-op that boss for hours until I looked online and realized that's one fight where co-op won't really help.

Three, I don't know what this is all about, half the time I try to summon a phantom I get the "Summoning failed" message. I guess because the game wants to earn your hate even more.

Duke's Archives around SL 80 seems to be the gold spot. Plenty of people wanting to co-op there and tons of souls for farming.

I wouldn't mind at all if backstabs were disabled in pvp, it's just too easily abused considering the amount of lag, and even without lag it just seems to encourage people to roll around trying for backstabs instead of having a real fight.

This.

This is one reason Demon's Souls is superior: dedicated server. Even now I can STILL find people to play that game with co-op.

Now I'm really wishing I hadn't lent my copy of Demon's Souls away. Jerk.

If you don't know how to deadangle you'd better have a shotel with you or otherwise you are fucked.

What is dead angle and how does shotel help?
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
Shotel damage bleeds through shields, and I'm not sure how to explain deadangling. I think the running R2 Lifehunt scythe is best example of deadangling; if you steer the attack slightly away from your opponent, the weapon will hit him in the back even though the scythe clearly appears to be striking him from the front. There's an instructional video about it on YouTube.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,031
Two, if it's a crap boss fight like Bed of Chaos you probably won't get summoned. I stood around trying to co-op that boss for hours until I looked online and realized that's one fight where co-op won't really help.

This is a joke. Right?
 

Servo

Arcane
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,479
Location
1988
Two, if it's a crap boss fight like Bed of Chaos you probably won't get summoned. I stood around trying to co-op that boss for hours until I looked online and realized that's one fight where co-op won't really help.

This is a joke. Right?

What part? That it's a crap boss fight or that phantoms don't really help there?
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,031
Two, if it's a crap boss fight like Bed of Chaos you probably won't get summoned. I stood around trying to co-op that boss for hours until I looked online and realized that's one fight where co-op won't really help.

This is a joke. Right?

What part? That it's a crap boss fight or that phantoms don't really help there?

Why would you try to co-op bosses which you did not try to beat alone!?
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Two, if it's a crap boss fight like Bed of Chaos you probably won't get summoned. I stood around trying to co-op that boss for hours until I looked online and realized that's one fight where co-op won't really help.

This is a joke. Right?

What part? That it's a crap boss fight or that phantoms don't really help there?

I think the entire experience is just a bad joke from From.

"wut's that this game is too hard WELL FUCK YOU HAVE THIS SHITTY BOSS THAT'S ANNOYING AS FUCK we hope the brightness of the lava burned your eyes out and the dinosaur feet stomped the shit out of you trololololololololololol"
 

Servo

Arcane
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,479
Location
1988
Why would you try to co-op bosses which you did not try to beat alone!?

I tried about a dozen times before seeking co-op, then finally looked online and learned that it's a trick boss fight.

"wut's that this game is too hard WELL FUCK YOU HAVE THIS SHITTY BOSS THAT'S ANNOYING AS FUCK we hope the brightness of the lava burned your eyes out and the dinosaur feet stomped the shit out of you trololololololololololol"

I don't know what's worse, not being able to see a damn thing in Tomb of Giants or having eyes burned out by lava in Izalith. From Software definitely confirmed as a bunch of trolls.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
I don't know what's worse, not being able to see a damn thing in Tomb of Giants or having eyes burned out by lava in Izalith. From Software definitely confirmed as a bunch of trolls.

Someone must have complained that there was too much lighting in Demon's Souls. So they made Tomb of Giant.

Then some tester must have been "that dark area is too dark!". So they made the huge ass dino feet and oranage bright-ass-fuck lava for Lost Izalith. "CANT MISS THOSE DINO FEET DUUUUUUUURRRRRRRR"
 

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