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Dawn of War 1 + 2

hello friend

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Hello and good day, the Codex.

Which of the Dawn of Wars are a cool/fun single player experience, which of them are good for multiplayer, and what mods are necessary or interesting to make it that way.

There are four Dawn of War 1s, which ones have good campaigns?

Dawn of War 2 has shitloads of DLCs. I imagine most of them are unnecessary. Are there any that add greatly to the game, though?

Is there still an active multiplayer community around the first or the second game?

God Bless you all,
hello friend
 

desocupado

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You should get the dawn of war 1 and the 3 expansions (add new races). Those are the most fun. There's a complete package on steam (it's a bit pricey, but if that's an issue you can wait for a sale). Me and a few other codexers play it a few times a week. Grab it and come join us, we need new players.

As for single player campaigns, I remember liking winter assault's (dawn of war 1 first expansion) best.
 

Zibniyat

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What a coincidence, I've just began replaying DOW1, though I've installed all the DOWs because I intend to go through all of them. I played DOW1, DOW1 Dark Crusade, DOW1 Soulstorm and I think I played DOW1 Winter Assault. Never used mods.

From memory: with the exception of Soulstorm, all of the mentioned DOWs are enjoyable in singleplayer. I've never played much of multiplayer, except skirmish against the AI. And skirmish is great, for me at least, but you get to overcome all of the surprises the AI can throw at you so it eventually gets boring as everything else. That said, the AI is one of the better ones in RTS games.

Soulstorm is kinda just about conquering a planet from other races/species, with an already done and predictable "story" attached to it. In multiplayer, Soulstorm seems to suffer from HP bloat, where you'll have to do a lot more damage to kill an enemy unit than in previous DOWs. Additionally, and quite aggravating for me personally, Soulstorm is riddled with too many and too flashy graphical effects (especially of weapons' outputs) which at times makes the whole thing and especially battles look like mess where you don't know what's going on anymore. Also Sisters of Battle or whatever they're called are retarded. Avoid IMO.
 

Jaedar

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Which of the Dawn of Wars are a cool/fun single player experience, which of them are good for multiplayer, and what mods are necessary or interesting to make it that way.
For dawn of war 1, all but soulstorm have decent single player campaigns (if you like the sort of thing they're offering. The base game probably has the weakest). Soulstorm is the only one worth playing mp in. No mods needed.

Dawn of War 2 has shitloads of DLCs. I imagine most of them are unnecessary. Are there any that add greatly to the game, though?
Dow2 has a bunch of cosmetic dlc, and heroes for the coop minigame. I guess the heroes are worth it if you like that minigame.

Is there still an active multiplayer community around the first or the second game?
Yes for both afaik, although you're likely to have a rough time since most people still around are veterans at this point.
 
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i liked the idea behind dow's further campaigns, but how they were put in practice was horrible: 8/16 players map used for 1 on 1, with an ai whose only imperative was to build and relocate, turns all the games into an endless hide and seek. soulstorm changed those into full missions, this meant having to repeat those full, 30 minutes long missions every time you had to reconquest the region. even worse. in the end the linear campaigns were the most bearable of the lot.
 

fantadomat

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Dawn of War 2 for me was really boring shit. The first one is pretty fun with all the expansions. Even Soulstorm have some fun capital missions,also the new races are pretty fun. Who doesn't like to play as sadistic slavers?!
 

Jokzore

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DoW1 avoid SoulStorm, its terrible.

DoW2 only has two DLC that add actual content.

Chaos Rising I'd definitely get if you enjoy DoW2 (I know some RTS purists hate the quasi-genre mix of moba and RTS).

Retribution isn't very good imo, it's quantity over quality. The biggest selling point is that it has a campaign for each of the races, as opposed to the original campaign and the first expansion that only feature Space Marines. However the quality of the campaigns drops significantly.
 

Darth Roxor

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Also Sisters of Battle or whatever they're called are retarded. Avoid IMO.

butthurt detected

Anyhoo,

For multiplayer - Soulstorm
For singleplayer - Winter Assault/Dark Crusade
For muh story - Chaos Rising

that's more or less it.

Retribution isn't very good imo, it's quantity over quality. The biggest selling point is that it has a campaign for each of the races

Except these "multiple" campaigns are all identical for all the races, just with different units. Retribution is shit.
 

thesheeep

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I enjoyed both Dark Crusade and Soulstorm single player campaigns. Actually replaying SS right now.
DC is definitely a bit better, though.
But both are very similar in style - fight mostly skirmishes in 1vs1 against the AI to conquer the world(s). And upgrade your character on the way (similar to how DoW2 does it, but fewer options I think?).

The main point of these is to win the game with any faction you like. I always vastly preferred this over campaigns with 0 player agency, but a story that is rarely worth mentioning. Especially in Warhammer where everything is always just WAAAAGHH!!.
Too bad they became out of style, replaced with (mostly badly done) linear mission stuff in every RTS since...

I tried Ultimate Apocalypse mod, too. But it really wasn't my thing.
Complete overload of "choices". Select any unit/building and be bombarded with dozens of upgrades/possibilities at once. It's just waaaayyy too much to be enjoyable.
Besides, it doesn't support campaign mode. Meh.
 
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BrotherFrank

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Well seems you've already made up your mind but "quick" overview anyways:

Dow 1:
Have nostalgia for the original vanilla campaign and serves as an effective introduction to the setting and dow games in general.
If you'd rather skip this campaign I recommend at least checking out BigDickCheney's dow campaign cutscenes "remaster" to be caught up on memes (SINDRIIIIIII), important recurring or notable characters (Gabriel angelos/ Farseer Macha) and general plot since later dow games build on events of this 1st campaign.
Ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tfJ2a7wD24

Expansions are Dark Crusade and Soulstorm.
Dark crusade has probably the best campaign overall simply because bases and constructions you build in missions are mostly permanent..Aka if you fight on desert tile X of the overworld map and play an hour long mission and build a sprawling base, then later on fight on that same tile again, map used will be the same and your big base will still be there. Not many rts games had a campaign like this.
Soulstorm lacks this innovation which is why it's an automatically inferior campaign, on top of any questionable design decisions which makes the campaign subpar even though there are more races. Still, you'll want soulstorm if only for sisters of battle and dark elder in mp.

Finally the real reason you'll want dow1 and its expansions: the modding scene is phenomenal, it's the reason I've stuck with dow1 for almost two decades now.
From more "competitive" focused mods like dowpro (basically random ppls attempt to balance out vanilla whilst introducing more fluffy choices) to ones that add minor sub factions or full on races (imperial guard steel legion, tyranids, inquisition, chapter focused overhauls for blood angels, salamanders, etc) to these crazy big overhaul mods (ultimate apocalypse throws in the kitchensink, even has titans ffs long before dow3 did it). Seriously it's the skyrim of rts games when it comes to mods.

Dow 2:
Shifts from big rts battles to a more squad based tactics game. I hated this in mp and is main reason I stuck with dow1 and never really got into dow2 in the same way. But I still had some fun with the campaign which has a more rpg/diablo feel. Each of your predefined squads is led by a leader character who you level up and spend stats on and give them gear you loot from missions. Makes for a different sort of campaign experience and is enjoyable enough. Oh and its coop too so that's pretty cool. But yeah mp wasn't my groove in dow2.

Chaos rising expansion:
Chaos rising appropriately adds chaos in mp and continues the story of previous campaign with same characters, and besides each level being individually better designed and overall meatier then levels in the previous games (at the cost of campaign length being shorter overall), it introduces a corruption mechanic which affects the story and ending you can get. You also get chaos for mp.

Retribution:
This one's a bit of a mixed bag. Campaign is the conclusion of the story started with dow1's first campaign, with recurrent characters from all previous games (or even just mentions, apparently Macha is a slut who walks around naked in her craftworld because you can steal all her clothes in this one).
Despite that it's also the weakest campaign because they tried to have a smorgasbord approach where you could pick any faction, but this translates to cookie cutter missions with only slight differences depending on who you're playing as (I recall nids having the most radically different campaign but was still meh) and a gutted levelling and rpg system in comparison to previous dow2 campaigns. Even gear is more Spartan this time around which is a shame.
Still if you've played the previous dow games and campaigns, you'll want to finish this one.

Despite campaign being overall weaker then previous ones (same deal with soulstorm now i think about it) there's still some fun to be had, Retribution adds in imperial guard for mp and introduces last stand game mode which is a decent enough time waster. It must have been popular because it even got released as a stand alone and a bunch of last stand only characters got added as dlc.

Dow 3:
:argh::negative::argh:
You didn't ask about it but I will tell you this is how you should feel about that game.

Space Marine:
It's good. I concur with Galdred in that you shouldn't expect some masterpiece but it does what it says on the tin: you're a space marine with a fluff appropriate power level soloing tons of orks (and later csm) and saving imperial guardsmen from dying horribly. It's most notable divergence from other games of its ilk is a focus on melee combat and offense, this was made as a direct competitor to cover focused 3rd person action games like gow series.
Decent fun and the mp scene (assuming it still exists) was fun enough I dabbled in it for a while.
 
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Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Thanks for the in-depth reply.

What are some other good first person or third person warhammer games?
Actually, Space Marines might be one of the best 3rd person Warhammer 40K game.
For WH, you could go with Vermintide 1/2, but it is basically L4D in WH universe: it is fun, but much better with a group of 4.

Among the abandonware games, the two Space Hulks are quite cool and atmospheric.

There are a few games with Warhammer mods too:
Mount and Blade Warbands, Arma 3, Operation Flashpoint.

I have not played the next 3:
Space Hulk: Deathwing was said to be flawed, but with potential.
Man O War: Corsairs had potential but is said to be unfinished.
Eternal Crusade seems dead before it could really start.
 

Darth Roxor

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Deathwing is alright. In two weeks it's supposed to get an Enhanced Edishun (tm) as well, for what that will be worth.
 

Jokzore

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Deathwing is atrocious. The level design is completely uninspired and boring(seeing as most of the map is empty and utterly worthless). Most of the mechanics are clunky, especially commanding your squad. But most importantly, the combat is just plain unsatisfying.

Majority of the Warhammer games are pretty rubbish, GamesWorkshop give out their IP to literally anyone these days.

Outside of the previously mentioned DoW, Space Marine and Vermintide games, the only ones worth a damn are:

Battleship Gothic: Armada

Space Hulk Ascension (provided you have autism-tier patience required to play it)

Mordheim: City of the Damned

Total War: Warhammer (the AI is crap but that's pretty much expected of TW games at this point)

There's also an early access ARPG called Inquisitor - Martyr, but imo it looks mediocre at best. Most of the warhammer games are painfully mediocre, so If you're not a fan of the franchise you'd be better off playing something else.
 
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Darth Roxor

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Outside of the previously mentioned DoW, Space Marine and Vermintide games, the only ones worth a damn are:

you forgot Rites of War you huge nigger
And Final Liberation, Chaos Gate, and Shadow of the Horned Rat!
Sanctus Reach is also pretty good despite its uninspired campaign mode.

And Dark Omen.

Seriously, mentioning Total Warhammer but not Dark Omen...
borealesad.jpg
 

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Outside of the previously mentioned DoW, Space Marine and Vermintide games, the only ones worth a damn are:

you forgot Rites of War you huge nigger
And Final Liberation, Chaos Gate, and Shadow of the Horned Rat!
Sanctus Reach is also pretty good despite its uninspired campaign mode.

And Dark Omen.

Seriously, mentioning Total Warhammer but not Dark Omen...
borealesad.jpg
Indeed, a pity Dark Omen got buried under a big IP clusterfuck. :negative:
 

Zibniyat

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and I think I played DOW1 Winter Assault.

From memory: with the exception of Soulstorm, all of the mentioned DOWs are enjoyable in singleplayer.

Well, now that I'm playing Winter Assault campaign (and skirmish against the AI) I must say that either my memory falters or Winter Assault (WA) never was as enjoyable as I would've liked. Or both actually.

The very first mission pitted me against some "semi-boss" with a massively over-bloated (can't emphasise enough, as you can see) number of HP points, a whooping 15000 of them. What!? In original DOW that many HP points were reserved only for the few truly powerful bosses, like some summoned monsters (demons) and the end boss. The battle with this "semi-boss" thus lasted for ages, figuratively, and I was overall quite annoyed with it. He stood no chance against me, but due to limited number of my own units and only having the weak ones, it took several minutes to reduce those 15000 to 0. Later bosses showed even greater bloat, and I was just forced to endure a mission which threw a boss with 30000 HP points against me, complete with having to deal with waves of enemies pouring from all sides to my base. Quantity over quality indeed.

The campaign itself is uninspired, with predictable and boring dialogue and fake urgency of some actors' statements and behaviours. There are no funny but serviceable cutscenes as in the DOW, which makes the whole experience that much more sterile. It's all about surviving the onslaught/waves of countless numbers of uninteresting little figures on the screen. The art is good in general, but the Imperial Guard is too ordinary and all about bloody quantity; e.g. they seem to have one of the biggest highest-tier weapon/vehicle that shoots spectacular stuff out of its many openings, dealing minuscule damage overall, and the only thing that makes it dangerous is it's massive 15000 (or was it 20000?) HP points.

The positive side is that the missions are much more challenging, unpredictable and difficult. I'm playing on the hardest difficulty btw.
 
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Baron Dupek

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I was still pissed at that last IG mission where they cover Eldars who suck out their resources, making the points income way slower. Also against waves of enemies and maybe some bloated boss/units.
 

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