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Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Pre-Release Thread

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Infinitron, Mar 28, 2014.

  1. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    You're right, in fact. The marvel of PST was writing that detailed psychological outlook of TNO, learning about his past personas and deeds, while reading masterfully written descriptions and dialogue screens. The fact that MCA used some sort of bizarro jargon (or was it already there in the Planescape books?). Plot? I don't remember one.
     
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  2. Love Arbiter

    Love
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    I don't see the point in defending the shortcomings of a game by pointing fingers at it's over 10 year older predecessor developed before the turn of the millennium. Deux Ex didn't start out to offer you a flexible and reactive story but the choices it actually offers make it appear so much more and it's effect is only diminished by the open to all endings. In the final showdown nothing you have done hinders you to choose an ending contrary to all your previous actions and so nothing feels to be your achieved finishing of the story.
    But what does Human Revolution do? It doesn't improve on that note and instead copies it par for par without offering anything new but some very shallow choices. There is no excuse for those development choices, when the issues have been known upfront and you claim to improve and expand on that.

    Maybe vents are the solution. After all it's the solution with which they claim to have fixed the complaints in the Director's Cut.

    I can't stand it, because I'm playing an first-person shooter and get thrown off into some simplified third-person perspective when taking cover. I don't like being taken out of my perspective and pushed back into it after some seconds. That is why I can't stand those takedown animations mentioned in the article either, which only serve to show you how cool Adam looks when punching a wall or some guy in the face. Since I haven't seen more of those recently I assume I'm not the only one unhappy with them. Of course Eidos did it again in Thief, but at least they let you stay in first-person.
    And regenerating behind cover is as fun as tuluse already described it to be.

    I'm not going to watch those videos, but he isn't playing on Deus Ex difficulty either...

    This! I don't know how many lucky stars aligned themselves to make it all work in Deus Ex, but somehow all those crazy ideas Spector put in as a joke produced sometimes chilling thoughts. It right out tells you everything about the whole conspiracy and you still get your head shaken by every revelation. Maybe it's too much to ask for another stroke of luck like that.

    Which makes the players screen flicker at one boss fight! But at least that wasn't as overtly coming as the rest.


    To be fair, there wasn't much that could be done in that timeframe anyhow. It's taking place in 2027, which is not only something over a decade from now but also some twenty years prior to the original game. So not only does the world have to radically change in those ten years, but all those augmentations have to be gone before JC enters the stage. But then again Gunther would be using technology outdated by twenty years, when he is supposed to be equipped with high tech before before nano augmentations. They were proper fucked in that regard.

    And there is nothing wrong with having a small scale plot. They set Jensen up as the grim and lonely ex cop who lost his girl and will never start looking, while working for the guys pulling the strings. That's noir as it can get, but then they turn they turn it up again and so Jensen saves the world from the augmented horde and all because he is the one and only enabling all the research from the beginning.
     
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  3. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    This thread is augmented... with bullshit. What are you halfwits even arguing about?
     
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  4. Azrael the cat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    You didn't murder the first cop silly enough to wander out of the site range of his partner so you could steal his shotgun and leg it in HR?
     
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  5. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

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    Yes, it's basically the same with different makeup. That was the whole point.
    They did? I thought the claim was to make faithful sequel, not pepper it with bunch of inovashunz.
    There are vents, shafts and breakable walls everywhere. You can cross entire levels through them most of the time just like in originals and i haven't even tried DC.
    That's irrelevant. Fact is, you can choose to play the game the old way, if you want.
     
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  6. Love Arbiter

    Love
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    There are also people who can speedrun the game in under one hour. But the design of the levels based on making you sneak between the routes of guards and crates and you'll be properly fucked in open shootouts on Deux Ex difficulty.
     
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  7. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    And? That's how all DX games play out.
    Also, design allows you to choose the cloak, silent running/jumping, stealth enhancements like superior radar, LoS detector to cross those routes more easily. Why do you think that that shootouts should be easy on the hardest level anyway?
     
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  8. T. Reich Arcane

    T. Reich
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    So, you're basically admitting that you have no idea what you're talking about. You can avoid watching this LP if you shoose to ignore the facts, but it doesn't mean other people will, and they will see that your argument isn't worth shit.

    I'll still humor your "reasoning" for not watching the LP though.
    Here are the values affected by choosing the highest difficulty in DX:HR:
    Show Spoiler
    Give me Deus Ex:
    Player Health: 75%
    Player Health Regen: 85%
    Player Health Regen Delay: 115%
    Energy Regen: 75%
    Energy Regen Delay: 125%
    Enemy Accuracy: 125%
    Enemy Health: 125%

    None of them affect stealth in any way (no AI changes, no enemy sight/hearing range changes), so my argument still stands.
     
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  9. Love Arbiter

    Love
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    The design also offers you augmentations to see through walls, but why even equip that when your rader already gives you that information and you can extend its reach to half the level size? You can always use the cloak, but then again you just have to wait for the guards turn and not come up ahead of them. It's okay to hack terminals beside them. Just get close to them and press the button for an nonlethal takedown and receive five times the XP than you would by killing them and then sit behind the cover and load your batteries for the next one and in the end you can add another extra bonus for not causing an alarm and reaching the stuff you could only sneak into.

    I don't expect easy shootouts. I have chosen the setting after all. But I want proper tight controls and gun handling instead of this callow cover system. You can't avoid it in shootouts because after two shots you have to take cover and regenerate.
    I know, that it's the choice of fickle, weak willed and delusional pussies for you, but why bother? Why even bother with combat at all, when everything is designed to make you sneak and you'll miss out on most of the stuff? Those perfectly arranged crates and right angle corners never seen in that excess since Metal Gear 2 are there for a reason: :popamole:

    I never stated, that stealth would change on the difficulty setting.
     
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  10. CyberP Unwanted

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    They do actually, enemy accuracy & player health determines the ease of your escape/survival once spotted, energy rates determine how often you can spam regenerating cloak (such bad design), I'm guessing NPC health values plays into how long tranq darts take to put the enemy down, and the player health/regen plays into general actions a stealth player still does, such as surviving falling damage, motion sensing mines, gas traps and so on.

    And yes, HR can be done without the cover system. Doesn't change the fact that the game was designed around the use of it (AI behaviour, no first person leaning, no light & sound-based stealth etc).

    Lesser unrefined popamole that is good for what it is. Let us hope Mankind Divided is a considerable improvement.

    No it fucking well wasn't.

    Human Revolution isn't Deus Ex. Not in design philosophy, soul, uncompromising values, hardened perspective. Just because a corporation slapped the name on the box doesn't make it so.
    I'll readily say arx Fatalis, a fantasy dungeon crawler, is more Deus Ex in this regard. Regarding what matters.
    The only reason I respect HR a little more than Invisible War is precisely because it was made by a different team incapable of true greatness. Looking Glass showed us they were capable yet once it fell its offspring perhaps understandably (but still shamefully) sold out.
     
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  11. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

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    And what does that has to do with the fact that you completely fucked up on factual things and even refuse to check an LP that proves it?
    Yeah, i get it. You prefer the original, when even on DeusEx you could rush through the whole base like rambo, taking bunch of shots and then simply cloak behind a container and eat few candy bars to recover the shattered limbs. That was totally genius design.
    Again. That was exactly the same casein DX. It was obviously meant for stealthy or at least rather discrete approach than going in blazing everything with a GEP gun. You had goddamn vents going from gardening shacks into highly secured and guarded compounds for no reason at all. Guys certainly didn't consult ventilation experts before choosing all the absurd routes you could traverse through them. There were crates and containers everywhere, not to mention exploding little boxes placed in convenient places. Guards were going around the same routes and completely oblivious to the fact that their numbers somehow magically shrink as long as you hide the bodies behind those conveniently placed crates.

    Get a fucking grip and replay the game, because it seems some of you don't remember shit about, except the childhood excitement of having an awesome vidya on your hands (which having said everything above, DX still is, of course).
     
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  12. T. Reich Arcane

    T. Reich
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    I know that. But what you did state initially is that sneaking behind covers without resorting to wall-hugging is impossible. I have provided you with a link proving you wrong. And you disregarded it solely on the basis that the guy isn't playing on the highest difficulty setting. Which isn't influencing stealth at all. Therefore, your argument for refusing to face the facts is invalid. Therefore, your original argument that stealth in DX:HR is dependent on :popamole: is also invalid, regardless of what you say.

    Regardless of that, I find your complains regarding the cover-based combat of DX:HR pretty absurd. DX series has never been about shooting stuff up, and DX:HR is no exception. If someone plays DX as shooter, that person is definitely retarded. Therefore, trying to fault DX:HR on using certain maligned elements of modern shooters is also retarded, because that is not the focus of the game and more of a convenience feature.

    What's gonna come from you next - complaining about the lack of "proper" melee combat in the game? :deadhorse:
     
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  13. T. Reich Arcane

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  14. CyberP Unwanted

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    Shut the fuck up and know your place, decline enabler.

    "If someone plays DX as shooter, that person is definitely retarded"

    How have you come to the conclusion that playing the game as a shooter makes someone retarded? That must mean you yourself have played the game as a shooter, else you're being a little retard and expressing opinions on what you know fuck all about (again). Either way you must be retarded, further reinforced by the fact that you are a DX:HR/popamole fanboy.
     
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  15. Love Arbiter

    Love
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    I thought, that by now I had explained in detail what I meant when posting, that the game forces you to stealth in cover. I was wrong in my description because the player is not literally forced to use the cover system.

    And what a fun that was! To finally got the skills maxed out and the assault rifle fully modified and silent. Blowing through the bad guys and sneaking by the unfortunate ones all in one session. No wonder the guys from Eidos miss those gray areas in their game.

    Alright, I get it now. The placing of the vents in Human Revolution is a homage to the original game! And I thought vents connecting streets together was just Eidos going full retarded.

    Please go on with your posts about 15 year old games today. I won't necessarily reply to them, but you're impressions of what must go through the heads of players nowadays sure is funny!

    I really don't know how to reply to that, mate.
     
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  16. Dev_Anj Learned

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    This is a problem with most stealth games though. As far as I know, the problem with doing this is managing what state the AI should be in, as it would be absurd if a guard went on high alert if one of his friends far away from his patrol route whom he could barely see didn't come back. Also this would hinder stealth gameplay, as a player would be forced to knockout everyone within an area as opposed to a few people in his/her way, or a guard who has a long patrol would raise the alarm 15 minutes after the player has got further in the level, making it feel cheap for someone sneaking around.
     
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  17. CyberP Unwanted

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    Eh, I'd appreciate this behavior if done right. There's a game, I don't remember which, where guards communicated via radio and after a set amount of time if the guard wasn't responding a search squad would be sent in. I think it may have been Metal Gear Solid.
     
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  18. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    It appears it's you, who wants easy popamole shooter, not the other way around.:lol:
    Game is bad, because it's not enough like DX.
    Besides, game is bad, because it's too much like DX.

    [​IMG]
    (we nee :master: emot)
     
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  19. CyberP Unwanted

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    It's a valid oxymoron. HR took things that it shouldn't have from DX (womens bathroom event, some dumbification notes from IW and the PS2 version of DX, taking the blue theme of IW and extrapolating beyond reason), and not enough of the things that it should (RPG systems, sim design, melee, no popamole systems, good level design, C&C, energy system, lack of compromise, general intelligence used when designing the game).

    ...not that you shouldn't be scolded for entering the bathroom of the opposite sex, but that was like the only NPC reactivity the game employed in Sarif headquarters, and there wasn't much elsewhere either. I find it insulting they'd open the game with "hey, we care about simulated reactivity!" and then for the rest of the game there's very little effort in this regard.
    Given the fact that this was one of few events it smells of half-assed uninspired fan service and a lack of fucks given. If the game was highly reactive and deeply simulated this event would be an acceptable one, to me.

    But hey, I don't expect you dirty peasants to understand what I'm even expressing here, so I digress.
     
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  20. tuluse Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    I'm pretty sure Human Revolution has just as much c&c as DX1. Which is to say, not a huge amount.
     
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  21. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator Patron

    Jaesun
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    Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
    The only 2 instances of C&C in Deus Ex I can think of at the top of my head is not killing anyone on Liberty Island. And not killing anyone in Castle Clinton (which is bugged unfortunately, you will always get the "slaughter" lines from Navarre). Oh yeah and if you find a way to kill Navarre on the mission with the airplane, there is some cool dialogue with Gunther IIRC.
     
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  22. CyberP Unwanted

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    :nocountryforshitposters:

    Some replays are in order on the 'dex.
    There is an insane amount of NPC reactivity & differing events based on player choices in Deus Ex. Sadly it dampens out in the second half of the game some, but it's very impressive overall.

    Here's one minor example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw1vUmfEef0
    If you don't swim in the canal beforehand, you don't get that back & forth.
     
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  23. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    [​IMG]
     
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  24. bloodlover Arcane

    bloodlover
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    But he is right. The game was designed with sneaking in mind, not killing everything in sight. Sure you could do it, but there was really no fun or excitement in it. Also, why so edgy? The bro made a valid point while your arguments consists of shit and insults.
     
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  25. CyberP is a retarded agent of Eidos Forums who wishes to take place at Viktoria's tit, but since he can't into the same level of tongue-in-cheek humor and absurd trolling as me, he failed his mission before it even started. Yet he's too retarded to admit that he's failed his mission, so he desperately tries to win at least the lowest tit at the Eidos forums.
     
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