Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Pre-Release Thread

Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
CyberP is a retarded agent of Eidos Forums who wishes to take place at Viktoria's tit, but since he can't into the same level of tongue-in-cheek humor and absurd trolling as me, he failed his mission before it even started. Yet he's too retarded to admit that he's failed his mission, so he desperately tries to win at least the lowest tit at the Eidos forums.

You blew my cover, traitor. I never blew yours.

But he is right. The game was designed with sneaking in mind, not killing everything in sight.

You believe there to be bias for the stealth playstyle in DX's design? Funny, because the opposite is probably true.

Sure you could do it, but there was really no fun or excitement in it.

Couldn't the same be said for the stealth? Both the shooting and the stealth were underdeveloped. Stealth? That's retarded, just play Thief. Shooting? Doom.
Sum of its parts; both playstyles are extremely deep. Neither is retarded. Not to mention at the time the only other shooter with any kind of depth, player agency, and superhuman abilities was System Shock.
what's not to love about running around with superhuman speed & jumping capabilities (in addition to the other augs), upgrading your weapons with a decent weapon modding system unlike any in a real-time shooter at the time, and everything else that makes DX great?
The only major problems with the combat were in the AI, which have been fixed.

The bro made a valid point while your arguments consists of shit and insults.

Tired of the decline and its enablers. I'm venting like a true codexian retard, which isn't very smart because the majority of you are expressing opinions on matters you are not informed in. Just more shouting at idiots.
 
Last edited:
Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
Also, why so edgy? The bro made a valid point while your arguments consists of shit and insults.

And for fuck...how is "whoever plays DX1 as a shooter is obviously retarded" with no elaboration given a fucking valid point, bro.
Are you all this retarded?

This is the codex. This is what this place stands for.
 
Last edited:

bloodlover

Arcane
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
2,039
Oh boy, whoever gave you those tags was spot on. I was about to make a wall of text and discuss with you but I realized it would be pointless.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
You blew my cover, traitor. I never blew yours.
Are you sad now?
Shut the fuck up and know your place, decline enabler.

"If someone plays DX as shooter, that person is definitely retarded"

How have you come to the conclusion that playing the game as a shooter makes someone retarded? That must mean you yourself have played the game as a shooter, else you're being a little retard and expressing opinions on what you know fuck all about (again). Either way you must be retarded, further reinforced by the fact that you are a DX:HR/popamole fanboy.

But he is right. The game was designed with sneaking in mind, not killing everything in sight. Sure you could do it, but there was really no fun or excitement in it. Also, why so edgy? The bro made a valid point while your arguments consists of shit and insults.
Well, Deus Ex was about the possible approaches to the situation, and shooting was alright (sucky by FPS standards, but alright), so beating it as a shooter has its moments.
I personally beat it on Realistic once while imitating Rainbow Six gameplay style, and I enjoyed it. Not as much as a stealth/mixed playthrough, but still.
 
Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
Not as much as a stealth/mixed playthrough, but still.

If you intend to go combat you begin the game mixed in style anyway. The accuracy system doesn't allow you to run & gun until further skill/mod investment, and the shadows are your best friend as you wait for the crosshairs to tighten.

Are you sad now?

Yes. Your tactful consideration of my feelings is too late.

Bloodlover said:
Oh boy, whoever gave you those tags was spot on. I was about to make a wall of text and discuss with you but I realized it would be pointless.

Why were they spot on, bro? You're not contributing in any way.

If you want to discuss the game like sane, reasonable people, we probably need to not be on the RPGCodex. Look around. Pick a thread. Shit slinging, logical fallacies, trolling...general lunacy everywhere. It's seldom a place for sensible discussion.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
If you intend to go combat you begin the game mixed in style anyway. The accuracy system doesn't allow you to run & gun until further skill/mod investment, and the shadows are your best friend as you wait for the crosshairs to tighten.
Not necessarily. If you're carefully planning your movement, you can easily stop using shadows and wait until your JC aims properly. There is also something that I've noticed about the game and I need some clarification on the matter.

You said you know a great deal about the game, so clarify the following for me:
As far as I remember, player guns are mostly using hitscans, while enemy guns mostly use projectiles?

If enemy guns are using projectiles, there is a chance you can evade their bullets by leaning, as far as can tell. Or I was imagining things and my combat run through the Liberty Island without taking even a single bullet was just my luck?
 
Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
Not necessarily. If you're carefully planning your movement, you can easily stop using shadows and wait until your JC aims properly. There is also something that I've noticed about the game and I need some clarification on the matter.

You said you know a great deal about the game, so clarify the following for me:
As far as I remember, player guns are mostly using hitscans, while enemy guns mostly use projectiles?

If enemy guns are using projectiles, there is a chance you can evade their bullets by leaning, as far as can tell. Or I was imagining things and my combat run through the Liberty Island without taking even a single bullet was just my luck?

Enemies primarily use hitscan/trace weapons too. You have likely been mislead by the visual tracer effect. Vanilla (and even GMDX) NPCs have poor accuracy at the beginning of the game. Keeping your distance, using cover, leaning and general good tactical decision making puts your chances of not getting hit reasonably high.


There is an insane amount of NPC reactivity & differing events based on player choices in Deus Ex.
Robert-DeNiro-Laughing-Awards-Ceremony.gif

You seem to forget I have worked on the game for nearly three years. Not to mention I've played the game numerous times using differing playstyle variations.
You obviously do not have a clue, no change there.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
The example you showed is purely cosmetic and changes nothing. Ok, it's cool and all, attention to detail n shit, but to say there's ''insane amount of reactivity''. Well ok, if amount>quality for you, then i've digressed.
 
Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
Where was it implied that that is my preference? Quality and quantity are not mutually exclusive anyhow.

Gnid, please. Fucking stop, else go migrate here.

Edit: fuck it, you have the honors of being my first. On my ignore list.
 
Last edited:

Love

Cipher
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
371
It appears it's you, who wants easy popamole shooter, not the other way around.:lol:

Game is bad, because it's not enough like DX.
Besides, game is bad, because it's too much like DX.

master_by_juhoham-d72nc3w.gif

(we nee :master: emot)

I know those silly oversimplifications are part of a retarded retrograde movement and I won't keep you. Your tactic to keep pulling up one straw man argument after another about decade old games doesn't improve the games at hand and only leads to more retardation because at some point you'll probably end up trying to convince me, that Unreal itself was a bad shooter or popamole or whatever.

I appreciate your effort to try and cure us from our nostalgic views, but we're not romanticizing about the valiant dark age or anything like it. It is one thing to point out, that not everything has been better in the past, but to argue that something is only slightly worse then before and it probably wasn't so great to begin with after all is only hindering progression and enabling mediocrity.

It's a valid oxymoron. HR took things that it shouldn't have from DX (womens bathroom event, some dumbification notes from IW and the PS2 version of DX, taking the blue theme of IW and extrapolating beyond reason), and not enough of the things that it should (RPG systems, sim design, melee, no popamole systems, good level design, C&C, energy system, lack of compromise, general intelligence used when designing the game).

...not that you shouldn't be scolded for entering the bathroom of the opposite sex, but that was like the only NPC reactivity the game employed in Sarif headquarters, and there wasn't much elsewhere either. I find it insulting they'd open the game with "hey, we care about simulated reactivity!" and then for the rest of the game there's very little effort in this regard.
Given the fact that this was one of few events it smells of half-assed uninspired fan service and a lack of fucks given. If the game was highly reactive and deeply simulated this event would be an acceptable one, to me.

But hey, I don't expect you dirty peasants to understand what I'm even expressing here, so I digress.

Blue theme? I think we have someone who played the Director's Cut here!

The toilet joke was probably a must and pointed out before release often enough to show how, that they really know about the original. I don't mind those references, but I do mind the things they try to imitate, which end up as cheap knockoffs like the ending or Malik's crash. While in the original saving your pilot is not something, that is too overtly pushed on you, because you actually have to initiate the situation by yourself by talking to the mechanic and Jock or even Everett, Human Revolution throws the situation right in your face and tries to establish it as some though decision for Jensen: Let her die or save her!
The outcome is as much of consequence as the original, which is none because you never get to see or hear from your pilots again. So it doesn't improve on the outcome and it also fails you to present the situation as something, that was in your hands and it was really your effort, that saved your pilot's live to begin with. It's a yes or no situation, that is trying to force an emotional reaction.

Human Revolution does something in the vain of that right in the beginning with the hostage situation. If you don't head on out to your mission but stroll around the office instead, hostage's live are in danger. It's the very first situation after the prologue, that establishes the setting and urge in the game, but it doesn't follow it through throughout the game after that. It gives you a false impression for afterwards and it's so frustrating because it shows just what they could have done by thinking those choices through.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
''I appreciate your effort to try and cure us from our nostalgic views, but we're not romanticizing about the valiant dark age or anything like it.''

No, it's just that both you and Cyber shifted your goal posts after being proven wrong about HR from ''it's not as good, popamole hurr, cutscene kills durr'' to ''they should have improved on the old stuff, derp''. Yeah, i agree that apart from graphics and some minor other things, it doesn't improve the original concept. But i don't think it was expected to begin with. And i don't like fickleness in muh argument.
 

Love

Cipher
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
371
''I appreciate your effort to try and cure us from our nostalgic views, but we're not romanticizing about the valiant dark age or anything like it.''

No, it's just that both you and Cyber shifted your goal posts after being proven wrong about HR from ''it's not as good, popamole hurr, cutscene kills durr'' to ''they should have improved on the old stuff, derp''. Yeah, i agree that apart from graphics and some minor other things, it doesn't improve the original concept. But i don't think it was expected to begin with. And i don't like fickleness in muh argument.

I see no shift from my previous statements and since I played the games I've seen what you call proof and that it is in fact not as good as the original, it is a popamole from which it tries to hind by making it more about stealth, which is another step back from the variety of openness the original used to offer. So not only did they not improve from the predecessor, but also failed to reach the quality of the first game, which is in all fairness nothing to be expected of nowadays industry hence things like cover systems, takedown animations and other cinematic shenanigans to appeal to a broader and more casual audience.

Human Revolution isn't bad the standard of that audience today and there is nothing wrong about having fun with this game. After all I spend something over 50 hours with it, but overall it does not get as good as it's dusty forbear.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
''since I played the games I've seen what you call proof and that it is in fact not as good as the original''

We proven you that you can play HR without popamole concepts just like original. Didn't even argue whether DX is better or not, just that mechanics are the same and popamole optional.
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,544
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
'Didn't even argue whether DX is better or not

Well you should have, because it is. Anyone who says otherwise will be met on the field of battle, and when I'm done with them I will sodomize their corpse and then start in on their family.
 
Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
I don't even see how it can be argued. Human Revolution is clearly the result of mainstream, modern corporate-lead Canards with a background in popamole. Deus Ex is the product of before-their-time MIT-bred innovators dedicated for years to a particular overarching concept, whom at the point of Deus Ex had come quite a long way...and sadly that's probably where it ended for them and outsiders such as myself continued in their honor (still got my fingers crossed for Underworld: Ascendant though).

If only Ion Storm spent a little longer on some aspects of the game, because trust me, there is missing functionality that floors & confounds me as to why it didn't make it into the end product, and makes a lot of the common criticisms of DX1 very valid.
 
Last edited:

Love

Cipher
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
371
''since I played the games I've seen what you call proof and that it is in fact not as good as the original''

We proven you that you can play HR without popamole concepts just like original. Didn't even argue whether DX is better or not, just that mechanics are the same and popamole optional.

Except the combat is still very much :popamole: with it's parking you in cover for health regen and no, you don't have to hide behind some crate and eat chocolate bars to replenish your health in DX or wait until your batteries have reloaded after you have knocked down some guard after pressing that awesome takedown button.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
Yes, indeed. In DX your health regenerated so fast that you didn't even need to seek shelter:
Regeneration
SummaryEdit

Regeneration is one of the nano-augmentations in Deus Ex.



"Programmable polymerase automatically directs construction of proteins in
injured cells, restoring an agent to full health over time.
"



- Deus Ex description
It is the complement of Energy Shield - the player must choose one or the other when installing the augment in Torso slot 1.

TiersEdit
  • TECH ONE: Healing occurs at a normal rate.
    • Regenerate 5 health points per second.
  • TECH TWO: Healing occurs at a slightly faster rate.
    • Regenerate 15 health points per second.
  • TECH THREE: Healing occurs at a moderately faster rate.
    • Regenerate 25 health points per second.
  • TECH FOUR: Healing occurs at a significantly faster rate.
    • Regenerate 40 health points per second.
Energy Rate: 120 Units/Minute
CoD would be proud.
 

Dreaad

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
5,604
Location
Deep in your subconscious mind spreading lies.
.... Except that in DX you have limited HP and energy. In HR both are unlimited. HR also has unlimited hacking and lock opening and unlimited money. You also have teh awesome kill anything including robots aoe blast, not that you need since robots aren't even a threat in HR, one EMP grenade and they go down with an explosions that kills nearby dudes as well. And for non robot opponents you have the trusty insta kill cut scene that makes you invincible.

Are we seriously arguing that HR didn't have popamole crap in it? I can get behind the fact that some people thought the story was equal to the original or that the sneaking was okay if you didn't take anyone down or maybe that DX wasn't a hard game to begin with... Regardless HR is still completely dumbed down and made for casuals.

Not to mention it takes real effort to make the AI even shittier than the original. It's like they went "The original DX AI was really bad at seeing at a distance.... we will fix that!" And then they completely forgot to do anything else.... Seriously shit's worse than Alpha Protocol.






:lol::lol::lol: The fuck you people must be blind if you think this is anything but appalling.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
.... Except that in DX you have limited HP and energy. In HR both are unlimited. HR also has unlimited hacking and lock opening and unlimited money. You also have teh awesome kill anything including robots aoe blast, not that you need since robots aren't even a threat in HR, one EMP grenade and they go down with an explosions that kills nearby dudes as well. And for non robot opponents you have the trusty insta kill cut scene that makes you invincible.

Are we seriously arguing that HR didn't have popamole crap in it? I can get behind the fact that some people thought the story was equal to the original or that the sneaking was okay if you didn't take anyone down or maybe that DX wasn't a hard game to begin with... Regardless HR is still completely dumbed down and made for casuals.

Not to mention it takes real effort to make the AI even shittier than the original. It's like they went "The original DX AI was really bad at seeing at a distance.... we will fix that!" And then they completely forgot to do anything else.... Seriously shit's worse than Alpha Protocol.






:lol::lol::lol: The fuck you people must be blind if you think this is anything but appalling.


Are we nitpicking the game about the AI exploit bugs now? Because then - http://www.it-he.org/front.htm#deus. The fuck you deus ex dumb fans must be blind if you think this is anything but appaling.

The last vid you posted as an example is hilariously lifelike. I'd see how you would react if someone threw things at you that you knew were explosive. The only reason the guy in the vid keeps jerking around is because the script is not an actual intelligence and is not able to evolve.

EDIT: Sorry, I neglected to notice a number of other idiotic things you said:
1. Endless HP and energy.
latest
latest


2. Endless hacking:
...

3. Teh awesome kill anything blast:
DX: activate ballistic shield + regeneration. Problem solved.

Etc, etc...

Are we seriously arguing that HR didn't have popamole crap in it?

No. DX:HR obviously had popamole crap and bad design in it, the reasonable people (me) didn't claim the opposite. But the lot of you (dumb fucks) seem to think that DX:HR was nothing but popamole and decline. And when the reasonable people prove you wrong by giving you the hard proof, you ignore that and then resort to cheap insults and more insane drivel.

P.S.: I can't wait to see you guys reply to my post and totally prove me wrong :D.
 
Last edited:
Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
P.S.: I can't wait to see you guys reply to my post and totally prove me wrong :D.

You're prosperbait, you are.

As you wish...

Are we nitpicking the game about the AI exploit bugs now? Because then - http://www.it-he.org/front.htm#deus. The fuck you deus ex dumb fans must be blind if you think this is anything but appaling.

Overall Human Revolution is definitely the more polished game. Something that is easier to do because the game is that much simpler (graphics/engine side stuff aside). I'm not making excuses for DX here though, so many fucking bugs, exploits and inconsistencies. The standard 2 year dev cycle bullshit was not adequate for such a broad game.

I'd see how you would react if someone threw things at you that you knew were explosive. The only reason the guy in the vid keeps jerking around is because the script is not an actual intelligence and is not able to evolve.

Ha. The job of an AI programmer is to imitate intelligence. Ideally you predict shit like that happening and figure out a solution. It is never easy, and issues are bound to slip through, but I'm putting that out there. Ideally you script to such lengths that they come across as an independent evolving intelligence.

Both games had shit AI in combat & stealth-based states.

EDIT: Sorry, I neglected to notice a number of other idiotic things you said:
1. Endless HP and energy. medbot pic

Yes, the infinite use of the support bots was a poor choice (guess who fixed that), however, still not true shit popamole levels: they were stationary, took a while to recharge & not every level had them.

3. Teh awesome kill anything blast:
DX: activate ballistic shield + regeneration. Problem solved.

Guess who fixed this too. I won't argue there, these two were beyond retarded. I've always considered the utter game balance destruction of these two augs a very odd anomaly in DX's exceptional design, especially as the rest of the game is usually so uncompromising.


No. DX:HR obviously had popamole crap and bad design in it, the reasonable people (me) didn't claim the opposite. But the lot of you (dumb fucks) seem to think that DX:HR was nothing but popamole and decline.

Most of us have said "it is good for what it is". It is definitely decline in most respects, but even Invisible War was enjoyable on some level. The same is true for Popamole Revolution.

And when the reasonable people prove you wrong by giving you the hard proof

:lol:

toddler-whac-a-mole.gif
 
Last edited:

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
I've got some hard proof for you.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom