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Diablo Immortal - MMO ARPG for mobile platforms - massive butthurt at Blizzcon

Discussion in 'MMO(RP)G / Online Discussion' started by Makabb, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

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    The only 'difficulty' in Hell comes down to overcoming the resistance penalty. But generally you can beat the game with a plethora of builds/gearing, though your time to kill may suffer as a result which is how people gauge your worth.

    There's also Uber Tristram which I've only really done as a Smite Paladin which many consider to be a PvM beast anyways so I can't speak too much on that. But there's very little "holy fuck, I'm going to get raped" moments in D2 compared to D1. Playing a straight Warrior and walking into a room full of succubi or acid dogs, yeah, fuck off Brevik.

    Funnily enough, the hardest challenge in D2 is Normal Duriel.

    Regardless, like Lilura noted, a lot of D2's fun comes down to the PVP and how bonkers you could make your character and ruin someone's day. Just kill someone and type "ez pk" and watch someone's mind explode.
     
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  2. Dzupakazul Savant

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    And lag on closed b.net when playing hardcore, particularly with Nihlathak's Corpse Explosion, old Oblivion Knight who cast Iron Maiden on you, and the lightning-shooting Glooms in A5. Or killing Hell Ancients.
    Eh, that was really managable on Normal because going left-to-right (or right-to-left) diagonally made you immune to bullets. In Hell/Hell, monsters got tougher, but you were pretty much guaranteed a Haste weapon and enough mana to telekill everything.
    Kinda agreed, given that he's a very sudden difficulty spike and might require prep in ways that even savvy players might not get it. Figuring out that Thawing Potions stack and that max block is good might have been too early on A2. And there are some builds (mostly two-handed) that this encounter still gives a headache. Still though, get a bone shield of deflecting from Drognan. But Hell Ancients is pretty damn butt-clenching.
     
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  3. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

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    True that, there were some nasty monsters back in the earlier days. Multi Shot Lightning Enchanted was a killer of many, Iron Maiden from Oblivion Knights ended the runs of many WW Barbarians, and Lord de Seis had that modifier where he'd make you drop your potions as well as spawning with Oblivion Knights. Think he had a Conviction aura too.

    But they nerfed so many of them down that it's actually difficult to die to most monsters on Hell. Kind of fucking lame if you ask me.
     
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  4. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    You're some 18 years late.
     
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  5. Serus Arcane

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    One could make an argument that Diablo 1 is a different (sub)-genre than Diablo 2. The former being a more or less classic single player (mostly) game where you play from start to finish once or twice and that's it. Versus the latter designed primarily with multiplayer and battle.net in mind and also designed on purpose to be addictive and promote repetitive gameplay where you grind the same areas over and over again. You don't absolutely have to do it but the game encourages such behaviour by design and in practice most Battle.net users did exactly that. In the end, you have two different games with vastly different focus. They're similar in appearances, are part of the same series, have similar presentation and controls but on the meta-level so to speak, the design is very different.
    This is also the reason why when people say "diablo clone" then in most cases they mean "diablo-2 clone". Almost all those games are based around that addictive, repetitive gameplay of D2 and also copy various other D2 game mechanics, but not D1 mechanics.
     
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  6. YanBG Learned

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    Do people even play remasters enough to pay for the development? Sure D2 is old but they can just patch it, unless it's only about the graphics? If the remaster has another expansion, that would be great though.
     
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  7. Lazing Dirk Arcane

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    I hated those guys as a... what's it called, the dual-wield warrior dude. Berzerker? Running around fast as fuck and attacking at light speed, and I'd run into an area and instantly kill myself from attacking something before I could even register what was happening. They appear on screen, cast the spell, and you die all within a fraction of a second. FUUUUCK YOOOOOUUUUU.
     
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  8. tritosine2k Scholar

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    Not too hopeful they would push a real good looker "image based rendering" 2.5D engine with great dynamism when they have all that clumsy polygon stuff in each and every game of theirs, could be cool though.

    Would be suprising if that pseudo3D parallax mode still works at high res .
     
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  9. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

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    That was Frenzy, probably my favourite of the Barbarian builds because of how you'd move so fast you could barely process what was happening and ended up getting stuck against a wall or something.

    Berserk was that attack Barbarians had which was pure magical damage but came at the cost of leaving the Barbarian vulnerable as well as not letting you gain any benefit from leeching items since it was all magical damage. I don't remember ever trying it since I think you wanted to use a shield to off-set the fact you'd eat shit otherwise and a Barbarian using a shield and not a massive two hander or two big weapons in either hands is a disgrace to the tribe.
     
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  10. Lazing Dirk Arcane

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    Shit yes, frenzy, that's it. God that was fun. It was like trying to control the game on speedhacks. I'm not sure I ever used whatever that berzerk thing is. Doesn't sound fun.
     
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  11. luj1 You're all shills

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    They said already they intend to patch it to the eyeballs before the remaster. That's why Warcraft III got its own Public Test Realm and numerous patches released this year (yeah not a joke).
     
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  12. luj1 You're all shills

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    Not really

    On top of that you need decent FHR and FBR breakpoints, CBF and at least 1000 HP or you will die a lot in Hell. Even then, there are occasions when mobs spawn with nasty modifiers (cursed archers, conviction), Iron Maiden (for which you need a wand with Life Tap charges on switch), and exploding fetishes. Lister aint a breeze on Hell either
     
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  13. J1M Arcane

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    I go into this in more detail in the thread about the new War3 patch, but the exact patch changes suggest that although they are probably planning a remaster at some point, the primary reason for the War3 changes is to prototype gameplay for WarCraft 4.
    https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-possible-remaster.120533/page-3#post-5566512
     
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  14. Multidirectional Arcane

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    That was my favorite way to play it. Single player or co-op with fake LAN software and /players 8 command, using ATMA to store best loot because fuck that limited in game storage. Played the shit out of it like that. Been years since I touched it but I'm pretty sure it's still the best game of this type that I've played. Hell, I still get an itch to replay it sometimes even though I've already played through all difficulties with all classes and in general I feel like I'm done with that entire genre.
    Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn were alright for a while but got bored with them way faster. Couldn't see the appeal of that slow-ass POE crap with its "+1%" upgrades and extreme zoom in, fuck that shit. Dropped it very fast. Tiitan Quest was also a borefest. Very pretty looking but dull as fuck.
     
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  15. Makabb Arcane Shitposter Bethestard

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    With a remaster it's possible they can support it further
     
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  16. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

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    I used to solo Hell Act 4 and 5 on /players 8 with a high level ice/lightning sorceress when I was playing the game. It wasn't that hard once you have a generous level of Warmth and Teleport.
     
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  17. Dzupakazul Savant

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    Berserker Barbarian is actually one of my favourite D2 builds with extreme self-reliance. It is single-target only, but it does one-shot things when it gets rolling. With some Crushing Blow (not hard to obtain; get it on Crafted gloves if nothing else), it kills bosses very fast. And yes, I use a two-hander -- the trick to survival as a Berserker Barbarian is your insane HP pool supported with endless AoE crowd control from Howl (synergy to Berserk) and War Cry. The absurd amount of bonus damage you get from Berserk (it's magic, too, which means it's hardly resisted) scales really well with big and slow two-handed weapons. You are really hard to kill - if something gets close to you, it instantly gets stunned or feared.
    It's a fine soloist character and an insane party support due to the amount of good shit you give everyone on top of your own contribution. Cheap to make, too, you're less reliant on a good weapon than any other Barbarian. You can probably beat the whole game with this build using an upped Bonesnap or something similar, or just any regular Cruel Polearm from a store or from rerolling elite polearms in a Horadric Cube with chipped gems.
     
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  18. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    The problem is that without rare items and especially runewords there is no progression from roughly level 40 to level 99. At level 99 all you are doing is exactly the same thing you were at level 40 except that the Enemy HP: Your Damage ratio makes it much slower.

    A much better balanced Diablo 2 would scrap nightmare difficulty and cap Hell at level 50 rather than 99.
     
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  19. Dzupakazul Savant

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    That's not true. At level 40 you will have maxed out one of your primary skills, be halfway through the second, and with 1 or more points in the situational utility skills or one-point-wonders (Necro curses, for instance).
    Only few characters really "finish" their progression at a low level, but it's nowhere close to 40; aim for more like 50-55. The standard Skelemancer is one of the fastest to cap out with maxed out Raise Skeleton, Skeleton Mastery, and Corpse Explosion (to clear out entire screens), and with all the free skillpoint quests I believe you can only reach that capstone at around level 52 or so. You still need to do something with remaining points, whether you want stronger curses against tough enemy types (Dim Vision against ranged for instance), Revives, a stronger Golem, etc. it's very nicely customizable depending on playstyle.

    Even if you find no rares or runewords or whatever (highly debatable given the ease of doing Hell Countess at leisure if needed; there's a multitude of cheap runewords you can run on any character if you really need welfare gear), you can still make up for it by yourself. Good Diablo 2 players know to not pass up elite-level non-magical items, for example, because that's a potential Larzuk/craft/cube material to vastly improve your ability. Or it might very well be good tradebait if playing online - white Phase Blades and Monarchs are highly sought after.

    Scaling down everything to level 50 would require you to revamp the entire skill tree and drop system again because Nightmare items and enemy spawns are still a class below the ones that drop in Hell. That, and a Normal difficulty run through 5 acts ends at level 36 or so. In short, I have no idea how do you plan to do this without making a completely different game.
     
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  20. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Yes, as I said:

     
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  21. Dzupakazul Savant

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    Well, I don't think we're getting anywhere if that's all you've taken from my rebuttal. As I said, at level 40 you likely haven't even unlocked the entire scope of your character, so we might as well reduce it further and say that Diablo 2 at its core doesn't change from level 1 to 99 because in the end it's all about killing monsters.

    A level 40 Sorceress is likely maxing out her FOrb and using primarily that skill because cold immunes aren't a thing yet and FOrb has insane base damage. By the time you hit Hell, around level 60, you should have planned to diversify your skillset and introduce Lightning or Fire skills into it because FOrb itself doesn't cut it unless all you do is rush act bosses by Teleporting past everything else and killing Mephisto over and over.

    Hybrid builds and particularly the Assassin class do not finish their development early, and absolutely no class finishes their development at level 40 as you posit.

    And if any of the above is not enough for you, I'd have to mention just how many uniques or other magic items can enable new strategies or abilities. Wands of Life Tap, Amulets or other items with Teleport charges, one of the affordable runewords that gives you an aura, completely oddball items that enable entirely new builds like the Passion runeword or that helm that lets you be a Wolfbarb.
     
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  22. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Which level would you be you after doing a Normal -> Nightmare -> Hell run without any grinding/farming? I can't remember, but I do remember that progression was not a problem.
     
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  23. Dzupakazul Savant

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    If you were to do a /players 1 run with no grinding, but with completing every single zone once (including optional dungeons), you finish Normal at level 36 and Nightmare at level 67.
    Otherwise it varies. If you play something like a cookie-cutter single-elemental build, you will have so much frontloaded damage when you have already invested plenty into your primary damage skill (Blizzard or FOrb, Lightning Fury, Lightning/Death Sentry, etc.) you can blow through Nightmare like a typhoon and finish it at like level 55 or so.
    Casters have it easier to progress because act bosses have really high monster level, and your chance to hit suffers because of that. As I wrote before, you're expected to finish Normal at circa level 40; Normal Baal's monster level of 60 makes him artificially hard to hit regardless of how much Attack Rating you can possibly have. That said, you're not in any real danger as a properly optimized melee build, you're just going to not enjoy yourself too much if you rely at all on the Attack Rating stat. So yeah, melee builds are bottlenecked by the quality of weapon they find, which is why they will generally have a slower time.
     
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  24. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

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    Man, fuck that fight. I would rather fight the Three Prime Evils on a 1x3 match than Duriel. The whole setup is just a huge fuck you.
     
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  25. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

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    I actually can't remember what I did as a solo Ice Sorc to get rid of the guy. I did remember casting a TP just outside his hole because instant kill is a thing there...
     
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