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Diablo Immortal - MMO ARPG for mobile platforms - massive butthurt at Blizzcon

Discussion in 'MMO(RP)G / Online Discussion' started by Makabb, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    No, not really. Damage is also important since monsters have a not insignificant amount of health regeneration. There is also the fact that there are many immunities especially for elemental characters. Sustain is also important and a mere 2% LL/ML ring won't suffice. Furthermore you need a proper defensive concept. That includes things like potentially max block, FHR, movement speed, etc.
    Smite Paladin is not really a PvM beast. He is a beast at boss killing. His kill speed outside of that is mediocre at best.

    There are no "holy fuck I am going to get raped" moments? Are you joking?Have you ever played self found only?
     
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  2. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    The big problem with D2 is that running is overpowered. Thanks to this there's no real risk of getting stuck in to a fight that you can't get out of for 99% of the time playing D2. In D1 if you walked into a fight you couldn't handle you paid for it very dearly very quickly, often being stunlocked to death. In D2 you kite away and just chew through potions while picking off individual targets, tedious but effective. You have to be insanely reckless and stupid (and/or speedrunning) to end up in the same situation in D2 that happened all the time in D1. The difficulty in D2 comes down to one-shot KOs and not being able to click potions quick enough to keep up with non-one-shots.

    By "self found only" you mean single player? Yes that's all I play. Trading for items is degenerate IMO.
     
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  3. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Duriel is a real "I need to change shirt afterwards" fight...
     
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  4. Dzupakazul Savant

    Dzupakazul
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    If you run all the time in D2 you will soon find yourself at the end of the fact that your Defense is cut to 0 and your Block rate becomes 1/3 of its usual rate when running. This proves lethal very quickly and that's why hardcore Hardcore (heh) players do not do that.

    And D1 had way less instakill possibility, most of it nullified by good footwork. In D2, you need extra careful prep to not get one-shot by shit like Nihlathak's Corpse Explosion or bugged FE/LE explosions.
     
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  5. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Hammerdin is the best mob killer Paladin archetype, especially against melee mooks.
     
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  6. Dzupakazul Savant

    Dzupakazul
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    Self-found Hammerdins aren't actually the ultimate killer Paladin due to relatively low FCR, in my opinion. You also run into stopgaps like Maggot's Lair. Your curve through Nightmare kinda sucks, too, because Blessed Hammer takes a bit of levelling to be truly great and eats mana a lot. If I wanted to run a Paladin archetype that kicks ass without items, I'd run a Tesladin - the Zealot you'll be levelling as crushes Normal and the lightning aura in Nightmare eviscerates everything, and by the time of Hell you hope for a solid, fast, multi-elemental weapon (Baranar's Star) or ignore Lightning Immunes for as long as possible (like you would with a non-hybrid Javazon) while trying to progress.

    Hammer is probably a better party support though because Concentration is party-wide.
     
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  7. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    The hit rate of attacks that miss you because you run is zero. Anyone competent runs almost constantly in D2, only not when in direct melee range. Yes I have played hardcore.

    Yes, that's the point. D1 survival is about good encounter management. D2 survival is about noticing that there's a monster with a 5,000 damage attack hidden in a pack of monsters that deal 50 damage to you.
     
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  8. Dzupakazul Savant

    Dzupakazul
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    I honestly believe both of these are a gross exaggeration for any character that isn't largely twinked out by supporting magic finders. There's plenty of survival elements, splitting enemies, footwork, setting up killzones etc. in Diablo 2.
     
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  9. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Well, that depends. If you run a frost aura pally with a slow on hit weapon things are basically a slideshow. You can walk out of range of melee attacks on the fly. And the 5000 damage attack thing isn't an exaggeration, the FE and mana rape mobs were the most dangerous shit in the game and blend right in. Oh, and thorns/maiden, but I think they nerfed that shit.
     
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  10. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

    Generic-Giant-Spider
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    Being able to dismantle bosses would make him a PvM beast, don't you think? If you wanted to farm gear you would rush to the bosses anyways. I guess you could make the case for Pit runs or whatever that A1 cave was.

    A long, long, long time ago. I personally don't like playing D2 as a self found/single player game because I don't feel it holds up as well as an experience as D1. Regardless, I never felt those moments or they were so rare I forgot about them (outside of what I previously mentioned in other posts). Maybe it has to do with the more 'loot pinata' heavy approach opposed to the heavy atmosphere in the first. I always saw D1 as Alien and D2 as Aliens. Same franchise, both good games, but they'll attract a different type of person.
     
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  11. Dzupakazul Savant

    Dzupakazul
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    PvM Smiter Paladin will be an okayish boss-runner, but obviously Sorceress beats him there and I wouldn't particularly enjoy boss-running without either Teleport (and I don't play in a way that affords me an Enigma) or on single-player where I can save a "good" map. But anyway, if you wanna get rich in Diablo 2, I can think of like 5-6 different ways:
    Show Spoiler

    - bossrunning
    the classic Mephisto run and such. best character is Sorceress or anyone that can drop a boss fast.
    - area running
    lvl 85 areas drop gear that bosses may not be able to drop (Hell Andariel/Mephisto doesn't drop every item in the game). The areas of choice for characters with insane AoE. You pick your favourite area based on what immunity you can expect here - cold Sorcies go to Ancient Tunnels in A2 due to relatively few cold immunes, but avoid The Pit in A1 for the same reason. Level 85 areas include Chaos Sanctuary and Worldstone Keep, so you can chalk up Diablo and Baalrunning in this area.
    - cows
    Cows drop elite white items, runes, gems and set items. Lightning Javazon and Trapper are queens here because they clear whole screens naked and can't kill Cow King by accident.
    - horking
    Goldfind barbarian runs Travincal over and over and gambles with millions of gold looking for amazing Rare items.
    - keyrunning
    You spam the same bosses over and over looking for keys to sell or to use yourself. Lightning Sorceress is queen here. Countess, who is among bosses that drop these, is also a good source of runes.
    - uber soloing
    The domain of the PvM Smiter because you can buy items to do this for like 3-4 perfect gems. Get the keys and organs, murder the bosses, figure out how to utilize the Torch.



    So yeah, PvM Smiter can technically be a decent Mephisto killer or something - not the fastest at getting there (Vigor helps), but definitely will kill the boss once he gets to him. But if you want to run Hell Diablo or Hell Baal, you have to get through his entire cohort first even if you bypass everything else, and your typical cheap Smiter is a single-target fighter reliant on Crushing Blow. So he won't be horrible, but not particularly efficient, either. And if you can afford to put something like a Grief on him... well, you can also afford an expensive WW barb or an Enigma Hammerdin who will do it better and faster.
    I wouldn't say a PvM Smiter is a particularly good character to beat Hell difficulty in a "regular" way with. You definitely can do that, but I can imagine it becoming a chore at some point, since you really don't have an efficient way to deal with swarms or any interesting utility skills beyond his aura to break up the Smite spam. He has his own niche, but I wouldn't call him a PvM beast in all contexts.

    If you're not uber-running, most of the time I'd recommend making a regular Zealot and keeping Smite as a backup attack because even with 1 point in Smite, you can still use the attack (which is never dependent on your Attack Rating) to quickly stack Crushing Blow procs on a boss.
     
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  12. Mr. Magniloquent Learned

    Mr. Magniloquent
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    Diablo 1 definitely had better atmosphere, art, tone, and spell selection. Playing it has a sorcerer was pretty cool. The caster classes in D2, while flashy and fun in their own right, were simply inferior. Mana regeneration was not an acceptable trade off. Beyond that, Diablo 2 was better in nearly all other ways. The threats in Diablo 1 were largely claustrophobic. You often weren't able to accurately assess what was inside the doorway, and could easily wind up in a situation where you couldn't escape. This largely contributed to standing away from a door, and firing through it until the screams stopped. Diablo 2 had threatening tight spaces like the maggot lairs of Act II, and just about all of Act III, but they were less vulnerable to this strategy (for a variety of reasons). The real threats were the champions (and their packs), followed by certain mission/act bosses.
     
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  13. Dzupakazul Savant

    Dzupakazul
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    Multiple spells in D1 sometimes don't work as they should (Flash, Chain Lightning) and the final tier of spells (with Blood Star and Bone Spirit) is really underwhelming compared to just casting Fireball/Chain Lightning on everything in sight. I like Stone Curse and the like, but the overall variety of caster gameplay (Necromancer is a really huge improvement from the dinky Golem of D1, Necro and Druid can successfully mix summon and spell play and have excellent utility, Sorceress is basically D1 Sorcerer anyway, and when you think about it, every class has solid spell-like variants, with Singer Barbarian providing a notable exception to his usual might) in D2 trounces D1. I could understand this argument in terms of Sorceress being more restricted in terms of elements she can use to make an effective build (going tri-elemental is not very feasible), but Sorceress has plenty of utility over the D1 Sorcerer (Static Field, Enchant). I did enjoy telekilling as a Warrior, but they implemented spell-like utility nicely to the melee classes, including better ways to implement mobility.

    Besides, another issue with D1 is that Sorcerer is simply the best class by a landslide, perhaps outside PvP, and I feel like I might be the only person that played PvP here, so it's a moot point to bring up. End-game gear is much easier to farm on a Sorcerer than anything else (Normal Hell drops most of your best items) and it's not hard to hit 1000~ mana, which is directly converted into HP due to Mana Shield being insane, so you're tankier than the Warrior. It's enjoyable to play, sure. But in MP, it also doesn't really let the other classes shine much outside of Hell/Hell, the very beginning of the game, or Ironman variants. Friendly fire enabled at all times also means you often dissuade the warrior from going melee because you often kill him yourself. You also generally destroy Rogue in ranged damage capability outside of full immunes or perhaps providing Knockback.

    If there's one class that certainly kills any survival roguelike vibe to D1 and discards all the careful footwork and other tactical considerations, it's the Sorcerer with a few levels in Fireball and Lightning spells, as well as Teleport and Mana Shield. Once that happens, D1 becomes frantic. It's kinda jarring in contrast. I've seen Warriors and Rogues on battle.net equip caster gear just because it was easier to teleport around and level by shooting FBs and CLs, and that's just kinda telling.
     
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  14. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Single target range attacks from smite makes him a bad PvM due to the crazy hordes that can descend upon you at a moment's notice.
     
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  15. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    No, sorry he is not. He is strictly single target with little to no AoE capabilities. Anything with lots of monsters kills his kill speed. Hell before Uber Tristram no one really gave Smite a second thought.

    That is complete bogus. For one there were no distinct caster classes. All 3 classes cast the same spells. Furthermore most spells were useless. The spells which were used 99% of the time were Fireball, CL, Teleport and Stone Curse. I won't even mention Mana Shield because you buff that once and forget about it for the rest of the session. By contrast D2 has proper caster classes and nothing in D1 even remotely approaches the necromancer or the druid for example. Sorceress is the only character which is comparable and even she trounces D1 in terms of build variety all on her own.
    Mana regeneration was not a viable trade off? You are aware that mana regeneration early is basically non existent, right? And even if you have a Sorc with maximized Warmth you will run out of mana pretty quickly and please spare me the Insight reply.
    I see not a shred of an argument why any D2 class is inferior to D1. Far better build variety, far more fun and most importantly far more distinct.
    There is literally only one aspect in which D1 is superior which as you mentioned is atmosphere. D2 is plenty atmospheric still though and flat out beats D1 in any other category. More classes, more distinct classes, huge build variety, more end game things to do, better itemization, etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  16. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Hammers pierce enemies, right? Hammerdin is a walking area denial weapon?
     
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  17. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Duh I should stop posting before breakfast. For some reason I "read" Smiter. Derp.

    :prosper:
     
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  18. Lonely Vazdru Pimp my Title

    Lonely Vazdru
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    This thread.:lol:
     
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  19. Kruno Liturgist Shitposter

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    I can't wait for the greatest CRPG of our time to be remastered. Hail Satan-san!
     
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  20. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Diagnosis: Not enough Weetbix... :D
     
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  21. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Wow, I am certain that the release thread will have no negativity. Thread length is the ultimate proof of the quality of the game, after all.
     
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  22. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    The point was that despite the quality of the game codexers will buy it, and then whine about how bad it is for 100+ pages.
     
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  23. Multidirectional Arcane

    Multidirectional
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    I think 70+ is highest I've ever reached, maybe close to 80. Don't know why would anyone be insane enough to grind up to 99. But then again I never did bullshit like repeat boss runs. Just play through normally, store any items worth storing in ATMA for future chars, do the same with other build next time.
     
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  24. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    95 was my highest and it was insane grind. These days I stop usually between 85 and 90 if I feel like firing the game up again.

    As to repeat the boss runs, there are TC 85 areas which can drop the best loot so there is no need to constantly farm Mephi or Dia. There are also key runs, Hellforge runs, shuttle for low level players, Uber Trist and Dia Clone hunting.
    For such an old game you can do more than in many others of its kind. Compare it to D3. There you do bounties, Rifts and Grifts and there really is not a great difference between the latter two.
     
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  25. YanBG Learned

    YanBG
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    Codexers are a lucrative target group, i'm not even joking.
     
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