Diablo IV

[ArchAngel]

Path of Exile can't compete with this:



The mouth breathers don't care about your gameplay, they can only understand presentation.

Speaking of which, i just noticed that Lilith has no tits. But Diablo had them lmao.

Poe 2 live announcement being the most watched stream on twitch proves otherwise

 

[Tao]

And now with werewolves too xd

 

[Shadenuat]

i got a tiara

Spoiler

new quest: get to A5 hell to add more gems into tiara for the bear

also that single piece of gear p much deconstructs whole argument of some d3 apologists that you only hunted for super small group of items in d2 and nothing else was viable.
(although 5 socket phase blade I got later is even more... interesting)

also I got to Act 4 Hell with my shiet bear bros build. gonna kill mephi a few times probably. I have combat gear (60+ resists everywhere at least) but also have MF gear for about 270% MF. played game on evenings for a week or so.
this game really has some powerful options to combat challenges it throws at you. idk what they wanted to "fix" so much in future games to make them "more approachable" since this one works fine already.

 

[Cryomancer]

And now with werewolves too xd

I really wish for UNDEAD transformations. Lichs and vampires for eg. Also, this transformations should AT LEAST works like Ultima Online. Aka lasts until your die, no skill that lasts "X" seconds. The ideal is a Might & Magic VIII Lich transformation aka PERMANENT.

 

[typical user]

I liked D2 shapeshifting. You cast a spell and you are werewolf/bear for 5 minutes IIRC. D4 with some weird combos shifting you for 5 seconds? Bruuh.

 

[It Wanted to Purge]

DIA classic was the bomb, LOD had so many bots, in classic you had so many different rare yellow stats (without the dupes yes), I never heard of runes

 

[redactir]

And so was the story of how we conquered all the forces of creation with just +Armor and +Attack!!


"We simplified stats because we want to focus on different playstyles because we have different character classes, because arithmetic hurt brain otherwise. "
-D4 Dev

I'm calling it now:
They're going to take 6 to 8 years (not even blizzard soon), to put out Diablo Online Street Fighter, the literal homeless man's PoE edition.
Also with w/ unwarranted cutscenes to rival Death's Strandings.


59.99$ for:
1) An always online swindle,
2) unrepentant immersion breaking bubbly speech windows complete w/ profile picture lulz,
3) run on event based nonsense you can't get away from,
4) character names as the new environmental clutter,
5) limp dicked diablo fonts, and halfbaked artistic icons
6) return of beyond obese fat fucks
7) inexplicable copying of PoE's material/shader aesthetics on important bosses

They will borrow every mistake from D3 and force the community to bargain with their devs every step of the way post-launch until you're gasping for sanity.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

this game really has some powerful options to combat challenges it throws at you. idk what they wanted to "fix" so much in future games to make them "more approachable" since this one works fine already.

A lot of D3's design decisions came off like professional jealousy and tiny dick syndrome. Here's Jay Wilson in all his smug glory telling you why D2 sucked and why D3 is better.





Diablo is the one series of Blizzard's Big Three that wasn't even their brain child. At one point you could argue it was their biggest franchise before WoW came along. No matter how much D3 sold and people got initially hyped for it, they knew deep down that all of that money and all of that excitement came from Blizzard North/Condor creating D1/D2. All that Blizzard owns is the name, it doesn't have the heart and soul.

 

[Shadenuat]

But the stat spread he is stating is not universal and it is not a problem of stats themselves (except for Energy), it is a problem of ability to circumvent placing points into stats because other tools give you needed stats - mainly the op itemization and, really, Multiplayer.

My druid now has 190 140 spread; because 188 is for best scythe in game and 183 is to equip Ik set, and generally I like round numbers; and 140 dex because in single player, even placing every point in my main attack skill + buff skill I barely hit 80% to hit chance - and it also is for best scythe. Also I have 1 hander + shield in a swap for resists and block if I want to rush locations.
And it is an interesting choice. I mean, I can have less str and use light armor, get more speed, or heavy armor to get more defence. I can dump str and use dex weapons, with or without shield, like Phase blade. I make up a spread to use weapons which I like or are effective for my class.

Now with muling and begging others for items I could probably get away with that and have 183 str and low no none Dex but that is entirely different game state to single player. Plus points I dumped into Dex are not bad: I can skip dex on items; and Vitality is not that terrific for Druid as I get only 2 hp per vitality, and most of hp in my build comes from +skills to lycanthropy.

Just rebalance character power so they'd have to invest into dex to hit enemies or get defence. In Diablo 1 Energy affected what spells you could learn - and it worked ok. You can tie Energy to elemental or magical damage any character does or something.

Of course battlemage builds in D2 are popular. It's a challenge to build one. It's unique, strange, odd, takes strange item setups to make one. Challenge to build characters and making dumb choices work is what moves players.

His take on skills I did not understand much. Skills are an obvious toolbox with ability to fine tune them how you like. You can place 1 point into stun ability or 5 or 8 to get 5 second stun on enemies. You can increase or decrease radius of curses or abilities how you like it. You can go for breakpoints of particular values of attack rating or damage. You can dump stuff in one thing or multiple. Restricted respec forces players to plan and make hard decisions. As for last patch, D2 has 3 total respecs which is similar to PoE in a sense with it's currency respec, and I found out that 3 is quite perfect as you fine tune build after every Difficulty beaten.

Although I don't like respec much since it devalues early and midgame player choices. But ultimately, to hoard or not to hoard points is players choice. You can make this as flexible or as punishing as you want; I'd probably actually like a difficulty mode where you can't respec. It would be good test of what builds work and what skills need a buff. It would also be interesting if game had challenges which are very hard to beat without investing into leveling skills.

In fact, this skill tree is as basic RPG trick as it gets: a toolbox mixed with a carrot on a stick, with carrot being high level skills. It is a choice between some power now or a lot of power later, which players have to navigate to best of their ability, and they have an option to stop when they like. And if you make most or better all, even early, skills viable, dare I say it is just fun to navigate?

To counter dump-all strategy you can change how skills grow in levels. For example, introduce perks and synergies on particular levels of skill, but make it so investing into skill beyond particular value is not very effective. Or, make it the other way around: skill could increase in power the more points you put in to it; but synergies fall off quickly, so instead of 20-20-20 player could do 20-5-5 (max main skill, synergies just for damage) or 15-10-5 (high main skill, synergies for unique extra bonuses).

tl;dr ultimately it is not a terrible system, and you can overcome the flaws with some dedication to the design and looking also on the bigger picture of what makes system fail in the first place: like op muling/trade, op charms, op runewords, lackluster main attributes (hey you could tie skills or some of their effects to attributes u know) and so on.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

That's what Blizzard these days doesn't understand. Those odd, unorthodox builds that don't have the optimal clear speed and such weren't created because of some deer-in-headlights moment, it was because it's weird and a challenge mode in itself. When I made a Poison Dagger centered Necromancer I wasn't expecting to breeze through Hell difficulty like a Frenzy Barbarian or Zealot Paladin, it was because I wanted to try something different.

Anyways, the D2 Skill Tree was a pretty rudimentary design that they should have kept building off of rather than erase in favor of homogenization. Same with attributes. Rather than auto-distribute, why not make something interesting and more involving? The Dark Souls games do this, DS2 has an attribute that makes your iframes on rolling have more active frames so you can dodge things consistently, or you can carry more items on your guy by increasing your equip load. Why not have an attribute that makes you able to gradually increase your backpack space or something, just as a random idea.

 

[ArchAngel]

But the stat spread he is stating is not universal and it is not a problem of stats themselves (except for Energy), it is a problem of ability to circumvent placing points into stats because other tools give you needed stats - mainly the op itemization and, really, Multiplayer.

My druid now has 190 140 spread; because 188 is for best scythe in game and 183 is to equip Ik set, and generally I like round numbers; and 140 dex because in single player, even placing every point in my main attack skill + buff skill I barely hit 80% to hit chance - and it also is for best scythe. Also I have 1 hander + shield in a swap for resists and block if I want to rush locations.
And it is an interesting choice. I mean, I can have less str and use light armor, get more speed, or heavy armor to get more defence. I can dump str and use dex weapons, with or without shield, like Phase blade. I make up a spread to use weapons which I like or are effective for my class.

Now with muling and begging others for items I could probably get away with that and have 183 str and low no none Dex but that is entirely different game state to single player. Plus points I dumped into Dex are not bad: I can skip dex on items; and Vitality is not that terrific for Druid as I get only 2 hp per vitality, and most of hp in my build comes from +skills to lycanthropy.

Just rebalance character power so they'd have to invest into dex to hit enemies or get defence. In Diablo 1 Energy affected what spells you could learn - and it worked ok. You can tie Energy to elemental or magical damage any character does or something.

Of course battlemage builds in D2 are popular. It's a challenge to build one. It's unique, strange, odd, takes strange item setups to make one. Challenge to build characters and making dumb choices work is what moves players.

His take on skills I did not understand much. Skills are an obvious toolbox with ability to fine tune them how you like. You can place 1 point into stun ability or 5 or 8 to get 5 second stun on enemies. You can increase or decrease radius of curses or abilities how you like it. You can go for breakpoints of particular values of attack rating or damage. You can dump stuff in one thing or multiple. Restricted respec forces players to plan and make hard decisions. As for last patch, D2 has 3 total respecs which is similar to PoE in a sense with it's currency respec, and I found out that 3 is quite perfect as you fine tune build after every Difficulty beaten.

Although I don't like respec much since it devalues early and midgame player choices. But ultimately, to hoard or not to hoard points is players choice. You can make this as flexible or as punishing as you want; I'd probably actually like a difficulty mode where you can't respec. It would be good test of what builds work and what skills need a buff. It would also be interesting if game had challenges which are very hard to beat without investing into leveling skills.

In fact, this skill tree is as basic RPG trick as it gets: a toolbox mixed with a carrot on a stick, with carrot being high level skills. It is a choice between some power now or a lot of power later, which players have to navigate to best of their ability, and they have an option to stop when they like. And if you make most or better all, even early, skills viable, dare I say it is just fun to navigate?

To counter dump-all strategy you can change how skills grow in levels. For example, introduce perks and synergies on particular levels of skill, but make it so investing into skill beyond particular value is not very effective. Or, make it the other way around: skill could increase in power the more points you put in to it; but synergies fall off quickly, so instead of 20-20-20 player could do 20-5-5 (max main skill, synergies just for damage) or 15-10-5 (high main skill, synergies for unique extra bonuses).

tl;dr ultimately it is not a terrible system, and you can overcome the flaws with some dedication to the design and looking also on the bigger picture of what makes system fail in the first place: like op muling/trade, op charms, op runewords, lackluster main attributes (hey you could tie skills or some of their effects to attributes u know) and so on.

Path of Diablo ties some of the bone spell's damage to Energy stat. So you can raise more Vitality to have more life or get more Energy to get more damage.
Maybe some other skills in that mod also use one of the stats more.

 

[Desiderius]

Lotro died when they changed ("simplified") the stats in exactly this way, then kept compounding their error over and over. Meaningless stats make bad games.

 

[Shadenuat]

The Dark Souls games do this, DS2 has an attribute that makes your iframes on rolling have more active frames so you can dodge things consistently

D2 actually has equivalent which is Recovery, which can be improved by Faster recovery; it also has Cast rates - all of this is different depending on your class and is a hidden value.
Simply remove FR from items and make Strength affect it: suddenly all characters with high Strength are harder to stun in melee.

 

[Cryomancer]

Lotro died when they changed ("simplified") the stats in exactly this way, then kept compounding their error over and over. Meaningless stats make bad games.

Diablo always had simplified stats. I mean, you have four attributes on D1. And nothing like diminishing returns...

. Rather than auto-distribute, why not make something interesting and more involving? The Dark Souls games do this, DS2 has an attribute that makes your iframes on rolling have more active frames so you can dodge things consistently, or you can carry more items on your guy by increasing your equip load. Why not have an attribute that makes you able to gradually increase your backpack space or something, just as a random idea.

I strongly agree. DkS 2 is my favorite souls game(Hexes + Less gimmicky bosses), i just think that ADP is a bad mechanic. I mean, you need to reach 105 AGI to have souls 1 like i-frames. It make a lot of people who din't know that mechanic die and blame the game and it contrubuited to souls 2 being the less popular souls game despite having the best PvP, NG+, build diversity, etc; the game is hated and ADP/Soul Memory are bad mechanics IMO.

 

[Desiderius]

Lotro died when they changed ("simplified") the stats in exactly this way, then kept compounding their error over and over. Meaningless stats make bad games.

Diablo always had simplified stats. I mean, you have four attributes on D1. And nothing like diminishing returns.

By simplify I mean they made the primary stat of each class the only one that mattered. Whether four or six, every stat needs to matter on multiple dimensions.

 

[Cryomancer]

By simplify I mean they made the primary stat of each class the only one that mattered. Whether four or six, every stat needs to matter on multiple dimensions.

Yes, you are right. Diablo 1 was somplified compared to 90s RPG's, but still much better than D3 in any aspect(stat included)

D3 not only has only "mainstat matters", but your IQ/Musclemass is 100% tied to the boot that you are wearing.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I strongly agree. DkS 2 is my favorite souls game(Hexes + Less gimmicky bosses), i just think that ADP is a bad mechanic. I mean, you need to reach 105 AGI to have souls 1 like i-frames. It make a lot of people who din't know that mechanic die and blame the game and it contrubuited to souls 2 being the less popular souls game despite having the best PvP, NG+, build diversity, etc; the game is hated and ADP/Soul Memory are bad mechanics IMO.

DS2 is also my favorite especially when it comes to PVP and build variety. Personally I kind of like having these weird stats that people have to figure out on what they do or how much to invest before it becomes a negligible boost. I recall during the height of the game there was this whole discussion on how poise/hyper poise//poise damage worked, I love that type of shit. It's fun to have a game that's not easily solved within a week.

But Soul Memory was one trash idea that should have never been implemented.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

https://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-has-completely-changed-say-diablos-original-creators/

Blizzard 'has completely changed,' say Diablo's original creators
By Steven Messner 2 hours ago

David Brevik, Erich and Max Schaefer weigh in on the recent controversies surrounding Blizzard.

(Image credit: Blizzard)
The past year has been one of the rockiest in memory for PC gaming paragon Blizzard Entertainment. The maligned announcement of Diablo: Immortal at BlizzCon 2018 was just the beginning of a tumultuous year of news like Blizzard cutting hundreds of jobs despite posting record profits, rumors of Activision's increasing cost-driven influence, and an enormous international controversy when two Taiwanese casters and a pro Hearthstone player were banned when said player used his post-match interview to call for Hong Kong's independence from China.

The old Blizzard is gone. When we quit, there was like 180 employees total. There's thousands now. The whole empire is different.

Max Schaefer
At Path of Exile's ExileCon fan convention in New Zealand this weekend I had the chance to speak with Blizzard North's founders and Diablo creators David Brevik, Erich Schaefer, and Max Schaefer to get their opinion on Blizzard's recent controversies. That interview, which includes their opinions on Diablo 4's announcement, Blizzard's past and present, and China's turbulent games industry, will be posted in full on PC Gamer later this week.

During our chat I asked Brevik, Erich, and Max Schaefer, if it was hard watching a company that they helped build embroil itself in controversy over the past year, and if it felt like Blizzard had "sort of" changed.

"It's not 'sort of' changed, it has completely changed," Brevik contested, noting that the only original Blizzard developers who remain are senior art director Samwise Didier and president J. Allen Brack, who Brevik still chats with regularly.

"The old Blizzard is gone," Max Schaefer added. "When we quit, there was like 180 employees total. There's thousands now. The whole empire is different, and Activision didn't have any influence. At that point it was just Blizzard and then some anonymous corporate owner, Vivendi or whoever. That was it. And so now [Blizzard is] a video game empire that has to appease shareholders and all that sort of stuff."

That change in the values and culture of Blizzard Entertainment isn't anything new. It's something that "happens with companies all the time," Brevik said, and is a natural part of any company growing into a massive corporation.

Brevik and the Schaefer brothers all stated that even during the development of Diablo 2, there was a constant battle over its gory, satanic aesthetic between Blizzard North and Blizzard Entertainment, the main branch of the company that was originally founded by Mike Morhaime, Allen Adham, and Frank Pearce. But as Blizzard continued to grow after the success of Diablo, Warcraft, and StarCraft, it became harder for the trio to focus on creative design and avoid corporate bureaucracy.

"I think the biggest thing is we didn't talk about shareholder value," Erich Schaefer said. "We didn't talk about Chinese government and what they might want. The only thing we ever talked about was what we wanted to do and what the fans would like. It's obviously not the case anymore, for better or worse. I don't blame them. They're a giant corporation."

"You can't be that big and be as free-wheeling as we were, and one of the reasons we left was to be more self-deterministic and not be beholden to some monstrous organization," Max Schaefer said. "Nothing ever stays the same. We would not have survived [Blizzard's] growth in any form by staying there. It would have just driven us crazy because it's just all we want to do is have a team and make the games we want to make. That's possible in the small group like Blizzard used to be and it's not possible in a media conglomerate empire thing that they have right now."

Though Brevik, Max and Erich Schaefer left Blizzard back in 2003 and never had to deal with the modern challenges of Blizzard's enormous global presence, especially in esports, I was curious how they felt about the whole controversy over Blizzard banning pro Hearthstone player Chung 'Blitzchung' Ng Wai—especially because all three have experience in publishing games in China and working with Chinese partners. Brevik acted as an advisor for Path of Exile's Chinese release, and both Schaefers have worked with Chinese investors and publishers on their various games.

"First of all, sometimes you wake up in the morning and you're just in a no win situation," Max Schaefer said. "And I think that, to some extent, that's what happened with [Blizzard]. There was no clean way out. And I think they kind of bungled it, obviously, but there was no way they were getting through that without some controversy."

Because of the structure of Blizzard now they think with their wallets first.

Max Schaefer
With regards to rumors and fear that Blizzard was buckling under pressure from the Chinese government or Blizzard's publishing partner, NetEase, Brevik said that sounded "like a conspiracy theory."

"Because of the structure of Blizzard now they think with their wallets first," Max Schaefer speculated. "I think that kind of led the decision making more than anything, and they'd maybe underestimated what people's perception of that would be."

"Again, Blizzard was in a no-win situation," Brevik said. "If they don't punish, then what? They're just going to become this free speech platform for any kind of political movement that anybody wants to take up? They had to do something, but was it perfectly handled? Probably not. I mean, that's why they apologized."

My full interview with David Brevik, Max and Erich Schaefer, and more coverage of Path of Exile, including its new campaign called Path of Exile 2, will be published later this week.

Whatever, we got PoE 2. Good bye Blizzard.

 

[Damned Registrations]

your IQ/Musclemass is 100% tied to the boot that you are wearing.

As opposed to IQ being tied to the number of rats you've killed, which is so much more logical.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The return video game companies get past ~150 employees seems almost nonexistent. It has become a common theme for video game companies to expand greatly and their product quality nosedives.

 

[Frozen]

The return video game companies get past ~150 employees seems almost nonexistent. It has become a common theme for video game companies to expand greatly and their product quality nosedives.

Well, duh!

Its a problem of leadership in a company and a lack of vision.

In the good old days with each Model T you would get Protocols free of charge do educate yourself.

 

[Shadenuat]

I do find it slightly amusing how westerners react when they realise the power of economy and that some other country's (China) interests has to be taken into consideration, not just their own.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I do find it slightly amusing how westerners react when they realise the power of economy and that some other country's (China) interests has to be taken into consideration, not just their own.

Only when the country is an authoritarian shithole. Otherwise you can just focus on making a good product.

 

[Cryomancer]

As opposed to IQ being tied to the number of rats you've killed, which is so much more logical.

No, D&D 3.5e nailed with attributes, in other words, takes a very long time to get a +1 attribute increase.

The return video game companies get past ~150 employees seems almost nonexistent. It has become a common theme for video game companies to expand greatly and their product quality nosedives.

Yes. Even OwlCat, will become awful if they become too big...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Items that boost attributes(especially by significant amounts) should be extremely rare in all but the highest of fantasy settings IMO.
While the game itself isn't a good example, the crown you get when becoming king in PFK is. A king's crown being a highly magical item is something you'd expect.