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Did Baldur's Gate really have an impact?

Elzair

Cipher
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,254
It almost seems cliché to say that Baldur's Gate 'saved' or 'revived' the cRPG genre from its mid-90s slump. The problem is that I really don't see it. Yes, there were some good games released in its wake (PS:T, Arcanum, Gothic, even Morrowind for some), but they seem to come from vastly different lineages. My main problem with this thesis is where are all the birdmen games? Every time a surprisingly popular games is released, there is always a slew of copycats produced by two-bit developers trying to cash in on a 'fad.' Of course these games always merely copy the 'feathers' and end up sucking, but they are still produced. When Super Mario Brothers became popular, lots of developers made 'Mario-clones', and thus the 2-D platformer genre was born. When Doom became a hit, lots of 'Doom-clones' followed. The same thing happened with Warcraft II, Diablo, God of War, Myst, Grand Theft Auto, and several others. Hell, even Ultima and Wizardry have spawned dozens if not hundreds of clones each! So, where are all the Baldur's Gate clones?

I guess to be a Baldur's Gate clone, a game needs to have fantasy combat from an overhead perspective and play like an RTS (maybe with a pause feature); it also needs a dialogue tree. These seem to be the 'feathers' of Baldur's Gate. Here are all the clones I can think of (that were not developed by Bioware).

Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale 1 & 2
Drakensang: The Dark Eye (maybe)
Gorasul: Legacy of the Dragon
Hell, to be generous, why not throw in Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor and ToEE!

As you can see, this is not a very long list. Are there any others?
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
People talk of a "slump" in the genre, but the games have always kept on being released, and all it takes is a little effort to see what's coming out these days.

On one hand, if you ask for a general genre, you could say, "They don't make hexagon-based TBS games anymore!" only to find upto three such games released in that year.

On the other hand, if you try to be too specific, you could say, "Why can't I have games with romances, with customisable facial features, with fantasy plots, with mature themes of sexuality that appeal to the female audience just as well as they do to the male audience, with lots of powergamey options, but with lots of balance..." obviously someone is setting himself up for disappointment, so once she finds that exact game she was looking for (whatever it may be), she would just say, "The genre has been revived!"
 
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BG wasn't THAT popular. It wasn't Super Mario, hello.

I'm not sure exactly what happened to the RPG genre, or games in general, but something clearly happened when in place of challenge all you get is hand-holding.

It's easy to forget just how freakishly much games have been dumbed down. You really need to reflect on concrete examples from, say, Oblivion and some older games to grasp at a momentary understanding, the decline has been so unbelievable and incomprehensible in magnitude.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
I'd need to do some digging to give a clearer answer, but from my perspective, the release of Baldur's Gate saved the AD&D RPGs, which were a large mainstay of the RPG flora in the late 80s and most of the 90s. The mid-90s were not kind to the AD&D license.

As for other RPGs? Can't say for sure, but the genre as a whole propably benefitted temporarily from the release of Baldur's Gate. At least until the release of Baldur's Gate 2.
 

Jason

chasing a bee
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So, where are all the Baldur's Gate clones?
The BG games were far too resource intensive (particularly in the writing and art departments) at the time for small studios to churn out clones in 6 months or whathaveyou. It's not likely many of them looked at BG and said "Hey, we can do that!"

Probably the biggest impact (besides showing that RPGs could still make money) was RTwP becoming the default combat mode for many RPGs.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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BG started the entire infinity engine extravaganza which lead to some very good games. It also was quite succesful for a rpg. But saying that it saved the genre from certain death is quite an overstatement.
 

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,406
I want another hand-drawn infinity engine game. :(
Even if it's just a copypasta of IWD, I still want it. To hell with this 3D 'mah god the map is spinnin its heavan' games like NWN, I want my character to be properly obscured by scenery so pretty it makes me cry.
 
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Quilty said:
I want another hand-drawn infinity engine game. :(
Even if it's just a copypasta of IWD, I still want it. To hell with this 3D 'mah god the map is spinnin its heavan' games like NWN, I want my character to be properly obscured by scenery so pretty it makes me cry.
You are narrow-minded.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
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Strap Yourselves In
Baldur's Gate was merely Muzyka's and Zeschuk's culminative nerdgasm, both having grown up playing D&D then later having accumulated enough wealth playing doctors that they were able to do what any of us would kill to: living out their childish fantasies of making geeky games for a living.

Nevertheless, BG made an impact on me; it was the first game since the Gold Box series that invoked a "this is real D&D on the computer, at last" feeling, and probably even surpassed SSI's stuff in that regard as it was of course bigger, more elaborate, and prettier.

I have to admit I do judge many games by its standard. I did not find myself necessarily judging it by any previous games, so it stands out in that way.
 

Kaanyrvhok

Arbiter
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
1,096
BG woke up the CRPG market after that its hazzy. Morrowind was probably more influential because that opened the flood gates for western RPGs to sell on consoles but then maybe the demand for BG 1 on the PS 1 gave Beth the notion.
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
Quilty said:
I want another hand-drawn infinity engine game. :(
Pre-rendered is not hand drawn. :cry:

That post from Black Isle forums has been a curse.
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
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Codex 2012
I remember being very disappointed with BG1. I remember it as a game with nice atmosphere, beautiful music and graphics and outdated, messy gameplay.
 
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Wyrmlord said:
Quilty said:
I want another hand-drawn infinity engine game. :(
Pre-rendered is not hand drawn. :cry:
Can you give examples of beautiful hand-drawn graphics?

P.S. BG2 never struck me as beautiful. It was pretty, but was it art? The evenings and nights were flat fugly. Plus even with bad light and primitive graphics, you get better atmosphere in FP games (MM6, which I played without music).
 

Yeesh

Magister
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
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your future if you're not careful...
Elzair said:
Here are all the clones I can think of (that were not developed by Bioware).

Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale 1 & 2
Drakensang: The Dark Eye (maybe)
Gorasul: Legacy of the Dragon
Hell, to be generous, why not throw in Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor and ToEE!

As you can see, this is not a very long list. Are there any others?

I don't know that the RPG genre is so bursting with quality titles that we should be turning our nose up at this list and saying, "Meh." But then I didn't know there were hundreds of Wizardy clones either.
 
Joined
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This isn't from an Infinity Engine game:

gatestoaesgaard.png
 
Joined
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entertainer said:
crazy_dave said:
Paula Tormeson IV said:
This isn't from an Infinity Engine game:

gatestoaesgaard.png

What game is this? Is it for PC?

:lol:

Oblivion
It's from the Gates to Aesgaard mod (episode one). It's actually quite unlike the vanilla. It's closer to Penumbra: Overture than Oblivion, at least in terms of atmosphere and story. (It's still a railroad without a single decent puzzle.)
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
Paula Tormeson IV said:
Wyrmlord said:
Quilty said:
I want another hand-drawn infinity engine game. :(
Pre-rendered is not hand drawn. :cry:
Can you give examples of beautiful hand-drawn graphics?

P.S. BG2 never struck me as beautiful. It was pretty, but was it art? The evenings and nights were flat fugly. Plus even with bad light and primitive graphics, you get better atmosphere in FP games (MM6, which I played without music).
I am correcting the guy's mistake.

IE is pre-rendered.

It's not "hand-drawn" and that's a mistaken view of what IE graphics are. Makes me cringe!
 
Joined
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Messages
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Wyrmlord said:
Paula Tormeson IV said:
Wyrmlord said:
Quilty said:
I want another hand-drawn infinity engine game. :(
Pre-rendered is not hand drawn. :cry:
Can you give examples of beautiful hand-drawn graphics?

P.S. BG2 never struck me as beautiful. It was pretty, but was it art? The evenings and nights were flat fugly. Plus even with bad light and primitive graphics, you get better atmosphere in FP games (MM6, which I played without music).
I am correcting the guy's mistake.

IE is pre-rendered.

It's not "hand-drawn" and that's a mistaken view of what IE graphics are. Makes me cringe!
The smiley seemed to imply that you also preferred hand-drawn to pre-rendered graphics.
 

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,406
DramaticPopcorn said:
BG'S BACKGROUND IS HANDDROWN BITCHEZ!

Yeah, well, I guess my delusions are the only thing that Bioware hasn't taken away from me yet. That and the conviction that somehow, someday, this will actually happen and not suck:

 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
Updated my ignore.list
 

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