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Incline Disco Elysium - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Zero Credibility, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. Prime Junta Arcane Patron

    Prime Junta
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    Roqua is also really funny. At times.
     
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  2. the mole Educated

    the mole
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    Facts aren't meant to be funny
     
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  3. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Nigger do you even have a brain?

    This is some of the most retarded shit I've read on the Codex in decades, and trust me, plenty of abysmally mornic shit has been said on these forums.
     
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  4. the mole Educated

    the mole
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    A game dev and a dm can set up a fight with goblins or let you sneak around, what's the difference, what can a game dev not do that a dm can, they both setup encounters and you play them
     
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  5. Darkwind Novice

    Darkwind
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    That is an inside joke (one of many) that I guess few people got. One thing I like about this game is that for the factoid inclined there are LOTS of inside jokes / references etc. I picked out half a dozen through my playthrough.

    The rich guy is a very obvious allusion to Steve Jobs. It was said that Jobs had a 'reality distortion field' that would emanate from him and get people to buy his 'visionary' ideas about tech and how to make gobs of money. This was largely true as angel investors were just handing the guy millions of dollars on nothing more than his slick talking. Given the way that whole dialog went about the guy always looking for amazing business opportunities, etc. it was fairly obvious who that was referring to. You can google this and will get a dozen articles talking about this phenomenon w/ Jobs.
     
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  6. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    A DM can improvise on the fly.

    Game devs have a budget and have to put more effort into creating levels than a DM has to.

    You want a player in a PC game to be able to enter every house in a city with 200 houses? That's 200 interiors for the level designers to build.

    You want there to be NPCs in those houses that have quests for you?

    Great, let's say 20% of these houses have a side quest in them, that's already a shitload of quests for the writers to come up with.

    A DM can just quickly improvise and say "Yeah ok you can go in this house." Describes the interior of the house in two sentences. Describes the NPCs sitting inside.

    Boom, it's that easy. Content created on the fly in the DM's head with zero budget.

    You can't do that in a PC game.
     
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  7. Prime Junta Arcane Patron

    Prime Junta
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    Your head seems to be running on loop. Have you considered giving it a sharp rap with a hammer? Might get it unstuck. Works with my fridge when the compressor starts making that annoying RRRRRRR noise.
     
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  8. the mole Educated

    the mole
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    Your dm probably won't let you waste his night by going into 500 houses in a mega city and finding nothing, you have goals and tasks

    Really a game dev could put in more work but when they can lie and say the story is 90 hours when it's 30 why would they
     
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  9. GewuerzKahn Learned

    GewuerzKahn
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    Took me 30 hours to finish this great game.
    I hope this games inspires more developers to do different and more mature settings in a RPG. Not just fantasy or save the world shit.

    Investatigating the "paranormal" stuff was the best.
     
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  10. Prime Junta Arcane Patron

    Prime Junta
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    The party could invent a task that requires it to break into 500 houses. A tabletop campaign isn't about the DM handing out quests and the party completing them, it's about the DM and the party riffing off each other. It's really common for the players just to come up with their own objectives, and they always come up with ways of attacking them that the DM hadn't thought of beforehand.

    "Okay, so Imoen's been taken off by that mage council thingy. Let's go see what we can dig up on them, maybe there's someone there who's up to something nefarious, we can find out what it is, and put the screws on him." A good DM will adapt to that, let the players get to it, keep them occupied, and come up with something. A DM that says "No you can't do that, I haven't prepared files on all the members of the council" is a shit DM. It could turn into a terrific sequence of sessions. (Or not, it doesn't always work.)
     
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  11. ScrotumBroth Disco balls Patron

    ScrotumBroth
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    If we all ignore Josh/Feargus alts, we'll be better for it.
     
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  12. taviow Magister

    taviow
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    This is without a doubt the most useless and pointless discussion to ever occur anywhere, ever. Why is it still happening? Why does it keep happening?
     
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  13. Darkwind Novice

    Darkwind
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    Jesus Fucking Christ, enough already. Why do so many people take the bait? 3/10 troll yet we need 3 pages of comments here on an already too long discussion thread shitting up the forum like a bunch of smack addicts on a San Fran street corner? Just stop.

    This is such obvious troll bait it is incomprehensible that it is getting honest responses. Computer RPG allows for 3 solutions to the problem, 10 solutions maybe. Tabletop is constricted to your imagination so potentially infinity solutions. A developer is going to code infinity solutions, for a single encounter? Fuck off already back to wherever you came from and stop taking a dump in this thread FFS.
     
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  14. Egosphere Magister

    Egosphere
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    Here's my rant/take on the game.. It's pretty long and quite negative, but I need to let off steam. And if you've played DE then length isn't a factor to you :D.

    Show Spoiler

    Rolled a 1-1-5-5 build with H/E as signature skill ie. a cop with no brains or emotional depth, but plenty of brawn, good perception, quick to react, quick on the draw and a 6th sense in windy weather. So most likely a corrupt cop who abuses his power and doesn't really solve cases. The game had an incredible start: the visuals, the music, the characters - all great. The content was densely packed and I felt like I never had enough time to scour every place and engage in every possible dialogue, so had to make meaningful choices when decided which quests to pursue. Day 1 had many great moments: kicking the 'raseeal penacl' into a coma, meeting the union boss and passing the composure check, meeting the company rep, seeing a shady character on the balcony and spotting someone watching me from the window, finding the fridge, performing the 2nd autopsy, finding the dicemaker, ringing the buzzer, talking to Kim on the balcony at the end of the day, experiencing the dream sequence etc.

    The checks did feel strange, though. Having put 5 points into Phy and 1 point into Int, it came as a surprise when I failed to pry open a trash container, but managed to reconstruct the actions of an irresponsible driver in my head. The interfacing skill cracked the real cause of death of the victim, which also made my cop look a lot more competent than what I'd expect from an imbecile. But hey, the game was fun, so I didn't get too hung up on it.

    Then came day 2. Since everything is % based, I finally experienced a couple of nasty surprises. I failed a 92% red check for one of the motoric skills, yet managed to smooth-talk Joyce into disclosing valuable info with a 28% suggestion check just by dressing up differently. I also confronted one of the mercs and asked him a couple of questions about the victim. I won't spoil too much, but let's just say that one of his answers is very, very dark. The writing here is far harder than anything that preceded it, which sours the experience of sauntering around Revachol willy-nilly and just taking in the music.

    It also became apparent that my character was not what was said on the tin, since I lacked the authority skill. This brings me to my biggest criticism of DE's character creation system: the grouping of the skills under 4 different 'umbrella' stats that govern ALL of them. With high motorics and physicality, I expected to fail in social settings, yet always have the upper hand in conflicts. This did occur, up to a point, but drugs and clothes blurred those lines by day 2. I was also saddled with 'skills' such as Half-Light, something akin to paranoia, which felt out of place in my character. Authority would have been right at home under the Phy tab, just as Half Light wouldn't be out of place in Psy, yet here I was, listening to my inner voice get scared over a closed door in a bookstore. Me, the big-dick fascist who's into clean-and-jerking topless.. The same applies to a few of the motoric skills, which make you feel as if you're playing an Int 3-4 character, instead of the dumbass you're supposed to be at Int 1. The absence of intellect translates into occasional brain-farts, not a crippling lack of social abilities.

    Then came day 3 and fuck me was it bad.

    The map opened up to let me venture forth into the other half of the world and to continue the main quest. Unfortunately, the quality here is subpar compared to Revachol proper. The content density is thinner and weaker, since a smattering old shacks and abandoned R&D facilities for an electrical company comprise this area. There are less characters in absolute numbers; 2 of them have egregious voice acting. The game seems to acknowledge this and quickly transfers a major character from the Revachol harbour onto the village jetty to try and deaden the impact, but it feels a bit cheap, especially if you have already conducted extensive talks with said character. The quests contained here are often tied to Revachol, so you'll have to shuttle back and forth between the two locations. The highlight of the area is the church, which has some great content, but its quest involves a lot of loading screens as you go from the church to a nearby tent, back to the church and then back to the tent and then back to the church..

    I did manage to recover my gun, however, which was a welcome addition. A perception check allowed me to find a 2nd bullet under a floorboard, so I was finally armed. I confronted Ruby after my gonads tingled in the wind, got more info on the case from her and decided to call it a day. And then came the fucking tribunal. I walked onto that plaza like the big dick cop that I was. 12 H/E, 13 Reaction, 11 Perception, 10 Composure, 9 Physical Instrument. I had foregone all the sexy skills like Inland Empire and Empathy and Visual Calculus. opting into the boring stuff instead, which had almost no serious checks hitherto. But this, this would be my redemption. This would be my penacl. All those other builds would get fucked, whilst I would absolutely dominate. I have to admit I was really excited. Got the first shot off with 97% chance. Instant hit. Then the reaction check, 97%. Dodge the bullet like a pro. And then came the last check. 42%. Wtf? I have a second bullet, 2 of the bad guys are down, USE YOUR FUCKING H/E Harrier you thick cunt. Fucking shoot the guy! No, that's not an option. So I click on the last check and fail it (of course). Then comes another check, this time for authority, which I don't have. 28%. I fail (of course). So Kim gets fucked too.

    It felt like taking a baseball bat to the face. All this time building up to this moment, just to get fucking wiped out in 4 checks. I couldn't listen to Cuno's voice, so I restarted day 3 from scratch. I put all the points I gained into reaction, which eventually tallied up to 14. Went into the tribunal and .. got fucking wiped out again. At least I managed to save Kim by taking off my red shirt before the shooting started.. I would have rage-quit otherwise. We talk to a few of the survivors. Their story doesn't seem to add up to what I saw happen in the tribunal, but fuck it, I'm past caring by that point.

    I don't think I need to talk much about the ending. It's pretty fucking bad. There's a bit on a boat where the game decides to turn into a boomer Life is Strange for some inexplicable reason. The reeds were nice (especially because I never gave up on it! which in turn allowed me to pass the last Inland Empire check). But yeah, everything else was pretty disappointing after that fucking tribunal. It negated all of the great things the game had built up to that point. I got a good ending, I guess. Kim called me a racist, even though I stuck up for him (her?) in every encounter with actual racists. I guess not liking communists makes you a racist. But he did stick up for my sleuthing abilities. I did bring back a cool photo, which ingratiated me with my old buddy. Kim will also be leaving 57th to join our elite 41st precinct, so that was pretty cool. So I get accepted back into the unit and we go off to Jamrock to show the photo to some new friends. Roll credits.

    I'd like to quickly mention my own opinion of the comparisons with PST. Is Disco as good as Torment? Is it better? I would say no, not at all. Don't get me wrong, it has some incredible writing and a fantastic cast; its dialogue system is far more advanced and ambitious than PST and it does have some unforgettable moments. Many individual facets are much stronger, but comparing them as two wholes I think PST comes out on top. PST's quality follows a wave function: it's incredible for the first 4 or so hours, but then starts to sink when you find Pharod. Then you find the tomb and it's awesome again, but then it goes a bit stale in the back alleys. But then you enter Lower Ward and experience all the joys that place brings. Then you go to Curst and it's a bit shit. Then comes Fortress of Regrets and it ends on an epic high. So even when you're in a trough, you feel the incline up ahead. For me, DE hit its high at the end of day 1, flatlines on day 2, starts to sink on day 3 and then crashes at the very end. It also doesn't help that most of the places mentioned in DE are just that, places that get mentioned, not actually visited. There's a lot of lore in PST, but there are also a lot of locations to back it up. You hear something and you pay attention, coz what if you'll be there at some point? Never got enough of that in DE.

     
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  15. Zep Zepo Titties and Beer Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual

    Zep Zepo
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    Divinity: Original Sin
    My First experience with DnD was in 1978 in my Army Rec Room.

    10 minutes into the session...

    "You see a cave"...nobody does anything

    Me: "I look around and throw a rock in."

    DM: "Nothing Happens"

    Me: "I throw a dagger into the cave"

    DM: "The dagger gets thrown back out"

    Me: "I light a torch and enter the cave"

    DM: "You are in a small dark place, there are no exits"

    The Three Other Players: " Hrmmm...let's move on..."

    Me: "Seriously, you're gonna leave me here?"

    Them: "LOL"

    Me: I'm going back to my barrack"

    Them: "LOL"

    Yeah..so played with faggots. Pretty much spoiled me rotten on DnD.

    Zep--
     
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  16. Zero Credibility Arcane

    Zero Credibility
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    Alright, I binged the game over the weekend, and here are my thoughts on it: It's good. Not the best thing ever, not the second coming of PS:T, but good enough. The positives have been mentioned many times over - good writing, interesting setting, very well written NPCs, interesting take on the skills, that kind of stuff. The negatives have probably also been mentioned many times over, but fuck it, I like to complain.

    First, it did feel short. I liked what I've seen, and I wish there were more of it. It only took me some 20 hours to complete, and I was reasonably thorough. It very much depends on reading speed, of course, but I have to say, for 40 euro bucks I did expect a little more content.

    Second, the game feels like it just ends at certain point, and everything after that is a rushed wrap-up. Like they ran out of time or money or patience and just had to finish it anyway they could. Up to that point it did feel somewhat nonlinear, though some very obvious routes remained closed because... well, because there would be no forced finale otherwise.
    Show Spoiler
    Example one has been mentioned several times, I determined how the merc was killed and the possible shooter locations in day 2. In day 3 I could visit the coast to check them out. The game specifically gave me a task to do so, and I thought it would be prudent to do so, especially since nobody mentioned hearing the gunshot, which indicates a distant sniper. But I can't visit the island with the shooter before the showdown, because that would nullify the need for a showdown, and we have to have one.

    Example two - why the fuck couldn't I say to merc second in command that the union boys did not kill his bro before he goes on a rampage? I know who he is, I can talk to him, I know what he is going to do, I have the bullet that killed his brother in my hand, but I can't tell him that they hanged a dead man to try to stop him from doing something stupid? Even if he does not listen, why can't I at least try? Again, because then we wouldn't have the final showdown, of course.

    Third, the character system feels undercooked. I think it would be better if each stat had one or even two less skills to them. Consolidate the skills by merging the less useful ones into something better. Thoughts were an interesting experiment, but the execution left a lot to be desired for. The way their effects only become known when they are already locked in a slot is awful, especially considering that many of them are likely to be useless to a particular build. It would be way better if you knew just what a thought does right away. Random effects are not something I look forward to in a character system. Finally I started saving the game just before thought breakthroughs, then reloading and discarding a thought before it finished if I found it useless. And in the end I found half of them useless. Also, I am not a fan of the way clothing gives bonuses either.

    There's more, but I don't wish to spit on the game too much right now. Maybe later.
     
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  17. TwinkieGorilla does a good job. Patron

    TwinkieGorilla
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    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
    Honestly talking about whether or not Disco Elysium reached the goal it set out to** is part and parcel to any real discussion of how successful the game is and it's more than on topic here, it's what the topic should revolve around. And don't be too quick to call somebody a troll. A little less than half of my country voted for Donald Trump. Idiocy is real and it is rampant.

    **"Human beings live short lives and in my, let’s say, limited temporal view to reality, I really haven’t played anything as awesome as desktop roleplaying. It’s like books, only bigger, communal, a limitless exercise in imagination. The only problem is: you can’t record it. You can’t bottle it. That, to me, is the greatest thing about video games: video games can at least attempt to catch that lightning in a bottle. Playing Disco Elysium is the closest I’ve ever gotten to experiencing a desktop RPG in a PC game. Now, of course, my idea of desktop roleplaying is of the “immersive storytelling”, not “dungeon romp” variety. But – for that – I think history will agree: Disco Elysium is the closest games have gotten to that immersive desktop roleplaying experience." - Robert Kurvitz
     
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  18. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    Peak players was 5,157. That's better than a lot of indies (Queen's Wish, Underrail, Atom), but it doesn't beat the pros' failures (Tides of Numenera, Tyranny). As I said years ago with regard to ToN:
    The potential audience for something like this isn't particularly large, that's a fact. Now here's a question: did Disco Elysium have a budget low enough so that these numbers could be considered a success? Roughly 20 people working for five years would suggest a budget in the millions if they were using ethical labor practices like good commies should. However, Prime Junta has been explicitly sworn to secrecy on this matter, so they have something to hide (Are they embarrassed that they had access to millions to spend on a computer game of all things or did quite a few people go with little-to-no pay?). Something to think about.
     
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  19. Butter Erudite

    Butter
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    Finished the game in about 18 hours. I think I missed a significant amount of content. Disco Elysium isn't as good as Planescape: Torment, but it's pretty good.
     
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  20. Prime Junta Arcane Patron

    Prime Junta
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    That was a dick move Roguey, quite unlike your usual self. "Sorry, no, can't talk about this" does not justify a "therefore" asspull like this. That's Daily Mail class shitfuckery.

    You know full well that generally speaking companies do not publicise their internal budgets for their projects. Trade secrets and all that.
     
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  21. ItsChon Resident Zoomer Patron

    ItsChon
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    Eh, we were all thinking it.
    It's not too far off of Tides of Numenera, but yeah, Tyranny's was massive.
     
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  22. Stakhanov Augur

    Stakhanov
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    I think you hit on a valid issue with the game. Some ways of playing are inherently more satisfying. Being a fascist meathead is terrible, because the usefulness of the skills you'd tend to go for with physique/motorics lack utility for the most part (physical instrument, half-light, etc.). The best skill from those stats is perception by a mile, based on my experience. My first playthrough was a 4/4/2/2 specialising in logic, visual calculus, and rhetoric, and it was hugely satisfying amassing information, breaking down people's alibis, and solving the case. Then going inland empire/shivers makes for an amazing Malkavian style playthrough. I can see why your experience would have been painful. Unfortunately, you missed out on a lot of the really great inter-brain battles and input you get from high intellect or psyche - having at least one of those is a must for this game.
     
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  23. frajaq Arbiter

    frajaq
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    I think every build should invest in Visual Calculus because it makes you feel very Cool and Smart and Detective
     
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  24. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    That kind of secrecy never made any sense to me. There are certainly a good number of notable exceptions who will be happy to talk about their budgets (Feargus when he can, CD Projekt, Swen Vincke, plenty of indies as well).
     
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  25. Prime Junta Arcane Patron

    Prime Junta
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    Then why not ask them? I really am not in a position where I can talk about any internal info I may have come across. It's just not my call to make, and any information I may have is likely inaccurate/out of date anyway.
     
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