Do tank controls make games with fixed cameras/dynamic but static cameras inherently better?

[Sigourn]

I'm playing Yakuza (PS2) at the moment and the camera switching all the goddamn times bothers the hell out of me. I may be running in one direction but upon transitioning (MtF) from one screen to another there's a good chance my toon decides to run in the opposite direction. It's so annoying when compared to Resident Evil's tank controls. Same issue I'm having with Haunting Ground, though admittedy the controls aren't as bad as Yakuza's.

 

[Adon]

They are. Having tank controls on fixed cameras means you never have to readjust your character based on the camera positioning; no chance of the game mistaking what you want to do. Up always means your character is going to move forward no matter the orientation.

It's simple, and once your brain makes that adjustment, it's like riding a bike.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

it's like riding a bike.

If your bike is a tank.

 

[Gerrard]

Fixed cameras are shit regardless.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Panzer Elite has the best tank controls.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

The tank controls in fixed camera games (Resident evil for example) exist for making the transition between the camera frames easier, all because this control scheme works regardless of the character's orientation. Just try playing Resident evil remake HD with the new control scheme, you'll son realise what I'm talking about. With the tank controls, up is always forward and down is always back. But with a conventional control style, up is forward but in the next frame up is left.

 

[DayofBlow]

The usual way to "bypass" this is to not update the input direction until you stop moving, so the camera cut wouldn't affect you and you'd keep moving in the same direction as before the cut, this is not perfect and can fuck you over. I want to say, some of the Ass Creed games, maybe BroHood, had a lot of issues when it came to directional jumping off of a ledge and shit when the camera decided to be fancy. Pretty sure a lot of older games would have similar or more severe issues.

As an aside, tank controls are retarded, it's car controls where the gas pedal is mapped to the y axis of the steering wheel. The thing was designed for controllers without analog sticks and triggers, it's of a time when even racing games used the face button for gas and break instead of rights trigger gas, left trigger brake. Small wonder everyone thinks it's shit, it's innately faulty and made for a spefic outdated controller type and has made no advancement since, partly due to dumbfuck nostalgiafags losing their shit at even the idea of the scheme being updated to not have aformentioned built in retardation.

It's not like it's not a functional way of control even today, racing games today pretty much use tank controls, just have the inertia button be mapped to the right trigger, or any button for that matter, but dpad/stick that controls turning. Either RE0 or REmake had an alt control scheme that was basically this, gasp shock horror, it was the best way to play the game.

 

[Sigourn]

It's not like it's not a functional way of control even today, racing games today pretty much use tank controls, just have the inertia button be mapped to the right trigger, or any button for that matter, but dpad/stick that controls turning. Either RE0 or REmake had an alt control scheme that was basically this, gasp shock horror, it was the best way to play the game.

I didn't quite understand your "car controls" paragraph. I haven't played REmake or RE0 so I don't know about what you are talking about either.

Anyhow, the objective "issue" with Resident Evil's tank controls is that IRL people don't need seconds to turn around in a spot. A good tank controls system would adjust your turning speed relative to your movement speed. If you stand still, you turn around quickly. If you are running, turning around quickly is impossible since it requires you to adjust your direction as you move (you can't do a 180º when running because you would fall, you would need to make an "arc" to turn around, or stop on your tracks and turn around and then start running again).

Tank controls make perfect sense since that is how we move in real life. It's no question why FPS use tank controls but keep stuff like "strafing" separate, since that is also a movement we can do in real life. IMO tank controls are perfect for everything now that I think about it (since I can't think counter-examples that aren't stuff such as 2D platformers or games that use a different movement system, like clicking on an isometric game). If we could standarize tank controls and the almighty run/walk button, the world would be a better places.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Tank controls make perfect sense since that is how we move in real life.

If you're a tank.

 

[Sigourn]

Tank controls make perfect sense since that is how we move in real life.

If you're a tank.

[/QUOTE]

With the adjustment I mentioned above, it would work.

1. In Resident Evil, you first must turn around 90º degrees and then start walking.
2. With my adjustment, you could do both things simultaneously and you would look like a natural human being.

This introduces a different problem which would be a lack of precision when trying to look at things, but that is because Resident Evil is iffy in that regard, since you have to be facing the object before being able to interact with it, as opposed to other games where being next to the object is enough to interact with it.

 

[DayofBlow]

I didn't quite understand your "car controls" paragraph.

Tank controls: dpad/L stick up = gas pedal, dpad/L stick left = rotate left, dpad/L stick right = rotate right -----> this is awkward, same finger juggles all three functions, aka steering wheel gas pedal, manageable on a 4 button dpad, but a stick just makes if flimsy as fuck
Car controls: right trigger = gas pedal, dpad/L stick left = rotate left, dpad/L stick right = rotate right -------> split between 2 fingers, rotation will always alternate since you can't turn left and right at the same, while your finger on the right trigger is dedicated to the gas pedal
Analogy: the stupidity of classic tank controls is that it's a car where the gas is used by pulling the steering wheel up, try to corner with that fucking thing

Your proposed correction has literally nothing to do with why tank controls alienate people, it's a minor detail. What I described does, it's the core issue most people can't quantify. For some reason, fans of tank controls fail to notice this and advocate to uphold shittyness, becoming their own worst enemy, while normies just feel that the controls are shit on a modern gamepad and can't really say why.

 

[Sigourn]

Analogy: the stupidity of classic tank controls is that it's a car where the gas is used by pulling the steering wheel up, try to corner with that fucking thing

I understand but this is ignoring how cars work to begin with. A car can't rotate from a standstill. It needs to get moving.

while normies just feel that the controls are shit on a modern gamepad and can't really say why.

Most complains with tank controls have to do with people being unable to get used to them, so they end up playing badly as a result. What I suggested earlier is an actual issue with tank controls in Resident Evil: you can't turn around quickly, it makes the game's movement clunkier than it would be in real life, but it makes sense in the context of the game.

 

[DayofBlow]

I understand but this is ignoring how cars work to begin with. A car can't rotate from a standstill. It needs to get moving.

Why are you thinking of a literal 4 wheeled vehicle you donut. We are talking about button mappings on a controller and naming conventions of control schemes+functional analogies to illustrate a specific issue. All I've said is that dpad up/L stick up being the move forward button is shit and should be mapped somewhere else. Everything else is window dressing. You got hung up on the drapes.

 

[Sigourn]

Why are you thinking of a literal 4 wheeled vehicle you donut.

Because you brought up cars into the conversation. Tank controls are used for people in videogames, so why would you use tank controls for cars? It doens't make any sense.

All I've said is that dpad up/L stick up being the move forward button is shit and should be mapped somewhere else.

The truth is tank controls work just fine. Like I said, there's only ONE issue, and I proposed a way to fix it which I think would work pretty well. You are basically saying "moving your feet forward to move forwards is shit and there should be another way". How would literally pressing Up (i.e. "Ahead") be a bad way to make your character move ahead? That's literally how it works in first-person games. All I'm advocating for is using the same control schemes you have in FPS into games with tank controls, i.e. faster turning. Strafing if you will, but games like Resident Evil have no use for strafing.

 

[Multidirectional]

Just try playing Resident evil remake HD with the new control scheme, you'll son realise what I'm talking about.

The new control scheme is way better. Your direction doesn't change when camera positions switch if you keep holding the stick. Fuck that tank shit, I disable it in Silent Hill 2 as well.

 

[Bricker]

I never found an issue with fixed cameras and/or tank controls, I feel like SO many people bitch and moan about it meanwhile I'm over here like "People, it really isn't that hard to get the hang of...or is it?" It was one of my favorites back then!

 

[DayofBlow]

Because you brought up cars into the conversation. Tank controls are used for people in videogames, so why would you use tank controls for cars? It doens't make any sense.

Unconvinced that this isn't trolling.

The truth is tank controls work just fine. Like I said, there's only ONE issue, and I proposed a way to fix it which I think would work pretty well. You are basically saying "moving your feet forward to move forwards is shit and there should be another way". How would literally pressing Up (i.e. "Ahead") be a bad way to make your character move ahead? That's literally how it works in first-person games. All I'm advocating for is using the same control schemes you have in FPS into games with tank controls, i.e. faster turning. Strafing if you will, but games like Resident Evil have no use for strafing.

No I'm not "basically saying" that you mong. What even the fuck did you comprehend.

FPS have standard 8 directional movement numpty, the same as the "updated" controls in the REmake/0 rereleases. Was the only FPS you played in your life DOOM 1?

 

[Sigourn]

No I'm not "basically saying" that you mong. What even the fuck did you comprehend.

Ummm

All I've said is that dpad up/L stick up being the move forward button is shit and should be mapped somewhere else.

So yeah. You had to bring cars into the equation to justify "these are poor controls", but it doesn't make sense because cars are a completely different matter. Racing games require a lot of precision, of course you want acceleration and braking to be mapped to something other than the movement buttons. In Resident Evil you have three states: stand still (don't move), walk (press forward) and run (press forward and Run button). So it works just fine.

FPS have standard 8 directional movement numpty

Not the ones I have played.

 

[sullynathan]

In retrospect, tank controls are awful just due to the fact that they can and have been improved. You only need to play the various resident evil remakes to see how they improved the controls of their games while maintaining just about everything in the core gameplay of their series.

The original Devil May Cry is a very good game, but the legacy of Resident Evil's tank controls and static camera leaves a negative impact on the game. You just have to see how the sequels improved on both the camera and controls of the original while maintaining roughly the same action gameplay.

 

[DayofBlow]

You trademarked fuck, reread my posts again, turning and pressing forward is the issue. As I have described. In detail. Thanks for quoting that 1 sentence, without fucking quoting the other ones that breaks it down as if you were a downie fuck.

Tank controls: dpad/L stick up = gas pedal, dpad/L stick left = rotate left, dpad/L stick right = rotate right -----> this is awkward, same finger juggles all three functions, aka steering wheel gas pedal, manageable on a 4 button dpad, but a stick just makes if flimsy as fuck

Car controls: right trigger = gas pedal, dpad/L stick left = rotate left, dpad/L stick right = rotate right -------> split between 2 fingers, rotation will always alternate since you can't turn left and right at the same, while your finger on the right trigger is dedicated to the gas pedal

Analogy: the stupidity of classic tank controls is that it's a car where the gas is used by pulling the steering wheel up, try to corner with that fucking thing

Here you go, you obstinate twat.

Not the ones I have played.

Then you haven't played an FPS post the year 2000.

 

[Sigourn]

You trademarked fuck, reread my posts again, turning and pressing forward is the issue.

It's not an issue in FPS I've played. Again, there's a difference between "turning" using your mouse (tank controls "left" and "right", i.e. turning), strafing (some games have dedicated buttons), and walking backwards (Down Arrow).

Bringing cars into the question is retarded because cars work a certain way and it's as simple as emulating car controls in a videogame: one button for gas, another for braking, two more buttons for steering left and right (or using a joystick for that, which gives more precision). To compare a car with a person is stupid.