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Do you prefer kingmaker or DOS2?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Saxon1974, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. Harthwain Scholar

    Harthwain
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    That's why playing at the high level is very different from playing at lower level. To the point where you aren't really playing the same game. All the pros are doing is executing build orders they learned by heart, use hotkeys and watch screenshots at a rapid pace. It's not really that fun.
     
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  2. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Absolutely agree.

    If it were RTwithoutPause I'd be leading the TB charge. But, I mean, Baldur's Gate happened. Apples and Oranges. Seriously wonder how many TB jihadis are stuck in the anti-RTS frame of mind when it comes to RTwP in cRPGs.
     
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  3. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    There is only 1 use for bugmaker:pukefinder: toilet paper. Which is oddly appropriate given what's happening in Australia... :D
     
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  4. samuraigaiden Savant

    samuraigaiden
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    Not having played either, I prefer Kingmaker.
     
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  5. The Old Kiwi Educated

    The Old Kiwi
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    Owlcat is still just a lame bunch of wannabes, and I'll never give them credit for anything! Sorry!
     
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  6. Phinx Educated

    Phinx
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    DOS:2
    - rudimentary attributes system
    - armor/magic armor that is counter productive to their elemental synergy
    - stat bloat MMO style loot that becomes redundant after you find a branch on the ground that is 1 level higher than your rare loot, which you got from checking a barrel with a lucky charm
    - cringe dialogue that makes me feel almost as uncomfortable as when I'm watching a TV show with my parents and a sex scene comes on
    - burst down a priority target then taking them to CC

    Kingmaker has it's fault, but at least it isn't a massive turd that climax's upon seeing barrels, and also likes to pretend that it's master tactician meteorologist.
     
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  7. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    That is only because they are using an already established system that has been refined and playtested for 10-20 years now. When Owlcat comes up with a wholly new system, then we can talk.
     
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  8. Slaver1 Educated

    Slaver1
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    Pathfinder Kingmaker aces DOS2 in every respect including combat once you include its turn-based mod. On the other hand DOS2 is one the most over-rated games on Steam period so even if P:K was half as good it would still be better.
     
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  9. Jesus The King of Poland Patron

    Jesus
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    We Wuz Kangmaker, obviously.
     
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  10. ScrotumBroth Disco balls Patron

    ScrotumBroth
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    PoE with neutral positive mod is clearly the superior game here.
     
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  11. S0rcererV1ct0r Liturgist

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Game journalists hate PF:KM because "i can't defeat a insect swarm with a sword"
    Game journalists love DOS2 and claim that DOS2 is "modern BG" note that a game with cooldowns, dumb initiative, wow style only number inflation """progression""", a lot of artificial restrictions like only one summon limit, retarded armor mechanics and other flaws has nothing in common with the legendary Baldur's Gate.

    For me, if game journalists hate a game, is a good indicative that the game is good.
     
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  12. Serus Arcane

    Serus
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    I seriously wonder how many RTwP jihadis are stuck in the anti-TB frame of mind when it comes to TB in cRPGs.

    BG happened and what? What was good about BG1 wasn't the RTwP combat. If you bothered to read the posts of Codex members who liked the game you would know that most of them talk fondly of the atmosphere, exploration, production values, amount of content, being the fist D&D game with "modern" graphics (that didn't sucked) and of curse the magic system. Not the RTwP combat itself. I wonder why. So because of its success, the devs started to make almost exclusively CRPGs with RTwP. And thanks to that we got many "masterpieces" of RTwP combat in the following years. Infinity engine combat was ok(-ish) and decently enjoyable. But what came later was not. I still have nightmares about playing for example first kotor and other rtwp crpgs after early 2000s. But you would probably find them great.
    BG happened indeed.

    Also if you play a rtwp CRPG with any difficulty to speak of, and you want to keep control in any demanding encounter you pause every 2 seconds. Don't lie to yourself that you don't. So much real time indeed.
    Welcome to your RTbwmotP (Real time but with most of the time Paused).


    Having said that DOS1 was mediocre overall. If DOS2 is anything similar to that, then Kingmaker is better even as RTwP game. And with TB mod its much better than DOS. But since I haven't played DOS2 i can only compared to DOS1.
     
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  13. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Gold Box games did well with TB combat. I don't know why people don't keep that kind of format going instead of going with all the overblown pretty moving 3D crap which blows up computing power, videos that eat up memory, ultra buggy shit and numbers best utilised in a JRPG.
     
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  14. NJClaw Ontopolover Patron

    NJClaw
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    [​IMG]

    I guess that's a good reason, at least in their eyes.
     
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  15. Daidre Augur

    Daidre
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    You really think that KOTOR would be better with TB d20?

    Would be a stuff of nightmares too with KOTORs AI, enemy numbers and creature variety. Similar to NWN with its endless one-vs-one or one-vs-dumb-many design approach and painfully slow fencing animations.

    Imho, Bioware should have ditched d20 altogether in KOTOR's particular case and make real action-combat akin to Jade Empire or Jedi Academy.
     
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  16. S0rcererV1ct0r Liturgist

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    You have great points, but you are ignoring a huge problem with turn based combat. Large scale encounters can take eternities. If you have 666 skeletons + 6 party members fighting a army of the same size, a single round in RtWP can take 6 seconds BUT on TB can take hours.

    Sure, you can implement concurrent turns to speed up the combat and make the 666 skeletons and enemies move and attack simultaneously. ToEE did it.

    And most people associate classic RPG's with Baldur's Gate but there are a lot of other amazing 90s RPG's. Like Dark Sun(Turn Based)
     
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  17. Serus Arcane

    Serus
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    Thinking about that some more, You have a point. Nothing would save kotor combat, it would need a total overhaul, regardless of rtwp vs tb.
     
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  18. GloomFrost Arbiter

    GloomFrost
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    Kingmaker.
     
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  19. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    It only takes a long time because of stupid animation, 3D graphics whoring and shit programming. As I said before, Gold Box games had little trouble with massive encounters of 40-50 units on late-1980s machines. There is no reason why a TB game can't be fast. The biggest lag factor should actually the player and he is limited to 6 units.
     
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  20. S0rcererV1ct0r Liturgist

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Well....

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Serus Arcane

    Serus
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    And what exactly is the benefit of designing multitude of such encounters in the first place? A ton of trash mobs? They're BORING even in RTwP. The main difference is that the player might click through them faster in rtwp. The answer is to not making them in the first place. And if you really want to, for some reason, as you said, there are ways to speed up TB.

    Maybe the problem is in part also with the different backgrounds in gaming. Someone who played a lot of (tb)strategy, golden age CRPGs, and/or wargames is prepared for different experience than someone raised on RTS and post Badur CRPGs. So it's in some part a matter of different expectations.

    This all off topic, i'm sorry to have started it. OTOH the subject of this thread begs for such off-topics. Go figure.
     
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  22. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    This is what I mean that they have no idea how RTwP is played or why.

    Why would I lie? That's what I like about it - that I have to pause every two seconds or more often as things happen. Many more things happen, interesting things, unforeseen things, and I like having the time to reformulate my best-laid plans to react to them. And to formulate those plans with the need for flexibility and adaptability necessary to do so in mind. If only von Moltke were playing TB, all his plans could have unfolded beautifully in constant Time Stop land.

    And of course all that pausing is now automated and the key I use is the "V" key in P:K which advances time slowly, not the pause key much if at all.

    That the TBtards keep having to avoid coming to terms with what RTwP actually is and how it is experienced betrays the ultimate weakness at the heart of their arguments.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  23. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    More fantasy. Or maybe coin-op/Atari Adventure/Ultima being RT before I got into Gold Box (and loved them) is another layer. There's been a renaissance in 2D/pixelated games too, but people recognize that a lot of the appeal there is nostalgia/ease of creation rather than calling for a fatwa on all 3D games.
     
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  24. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    When I press pause, both sides stop. When you do, only the mobs stop.
     
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