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Retardo Does anyone know what this thread is about?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Wyrmlord, Dec 26, 2014.

  1. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    Please observe this list of Neverwinter Nights 2 prestige classes:

    Arcane Archer
    Arcane Scholar of Candlekeep
    Arcane Trickster
    Assassin
    Blackguard
    Divine Champion
    Doomguide
    Duelist
    Dwarven Defender
    Eldritch Knight
    Frenzied Berserker
    Harper Agent
    Hellfire Warlock
    Invisible Blade
    Neverwinter Nine
    Pale Master
    Red Dragon Disciple
    Red Wizard of Thay
    Sacred Fist
    Shadow Thief of Amn
    Shadowdancer
    Stormlord
    Warpriest
    Weapon Master

    What does this look like? A list of classes that are given multiple strengths without the same penalties!

    You want to play a wizard/rogue hybrid that advances both abilities at the same speed? Go ahead and work up to an Arcane Trickster or Invisible Blade!

    You want to be a hybrid of a fighter, a necromancer, and a rogue? Go Blackguard!

    And you want to have monk AC and fighting bonuses while still advancing in divine spellcasting abilities? Go ahead and make yourself a Sacred Fist?

    To quote eric_s: "what is this shit? what is the fucking difference? i'm just going to make up a class. arcane warcleric. they get both divine and arcane spellcasting abilities but also fight in plate mail and swords"

    In short, why fault Skyrim for uberpowergamey, all-strengths-no-weaknesses style of gameplay, when the whole genre, including D&D games, have been inching in that direction since forever? Because RPG fans love this shit; that is why it is there in the first place!
     
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  2. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    :kfc:
     
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  3. Zed Codex Staff Patron

    Zed
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    I think there's an issue with how you can do everything in terms of factions and questlines in a single playthrough, but that's not exactly tied to character development systems.
     
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  4. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Josh Sawyer will fix it.
     
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  5. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    I dont have a problem with classless systems without a cap. In the end your class is determined by what you invest the most and do the most.

    Problem is that skyrim doesnt offer much variety in what you can do, you pick the flavor of your offense and then pick locks i guess.
     
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  6. Commissar Draco KKKodex WCDS Commissar Patron

    Commissar Draco
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    :what:


    NWN prestige classes are not all equl Comrade Chocolate Jew but its true that perk system plus level lock at 40 was :incline: forcing players choose the buld to make... untill they added the :popamole:legendary skills at 100 allowing you to reset those and craft Todd Howard approved chars who can be demi divine Hero Warrior/Wizards/Rouges. :decline: But the true travesty of Skyrim is that you can become the Guild Master of all guilds in one playthrough the only C&C being the colour of the shirts Guards are wearing or what you decide to do with Dark Brotherhood.
     
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  7. SausageInYourFace Codexian Sausage Patron

    SausageInYourFace
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    The complaints about being able to become master of all guilds in Skyrim and Oblivion never made sense to me and never will, just like the complaints about the fast travel system. It is fucking optional. If you don't want to be guildmaster of a guild, don't become guildmaster of that guild. If you don't want to fast travel to a location, don't do it. Why is that such a big deal?

    I hate it when people complain about entirley optional shit they might as well just avoid and be done with, why not complain about the shit that is unavoidable instead?

    As for the character system, I think Skyrim is a definitive improvement over Oblivion, due to the limited points of perks you get. You can not simply become a jack of all trades, only eventually, after a very long time, which means for most of the playththrough you still have to think about what skill you want to advance and leave out others. At the same time you could be a jack of all trades that focuses on specific skill of a certain field. I don't see the issue here.
     
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  8. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

    SCO
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    :australia:

    Most prestige classes in NWN2 are 'balanced' by their favored class skills not their feats. And this balance is rather harsh since putting points in 'not class' skills both limits your maximum to 1/2 of level and costs double. So each class (disregarding some abominations like eldritch knight or favored soul, but even these are 'balanced' by having more than one major stat) which depends on checks of skills has one or a few defined roles. I actually think 3rd edition multiclassing is dull build-fucking sperg fodder and wish they'd at least allowed one to progress until the level cap in each class individually not as a summation but whatchacando.

    Also, they were designed to spice up the late game, while in TES you can literally be master of every skill mid-late game, here it's two skill sets or three.

    Quite frankly i also don't give a shit about these complaints. Maybe the first 'rpgs' i played were QFG series which use a similar gain skills by doing system, and i found new things about them after the 9th replay or something, even if i was making stat-gods since the 4th, so it's simply a question of sparse content. Even fallout which, if you'll recall has few non-combat skills so it's perfectly possible to get respectable on all of them, had new things almost every playthrough.

    Simply by being non-obvious instead choose from a fucking auto-popup menu like the shit designers of today love.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014
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  9. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Wyrmlord topic.
     
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  10. Grimwulf Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Grimwulf
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    1. Daggerfall and Morrowind were reacting to you guild career. Some guilds were at war others were allied. Your guild and your ranking defined a big hunk of gameplay experience, to put it short. Skyrim doesn't give a fuck about you and your guilds.

    2. The world is either designed for fast-travel or for interisting travel. Skyrim is designed for fast-travel. When I get a quest to "GO TO CAVE HURRDURRHALL KILL DRAUGR", I'm expecting some directions. No directions, except for compass arrow and fast-travel? Well, shitty design. Decline, uninstall.

    It's basic stuff. Do yer homework.
     
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  11. SausageInYourFace Codexian Sausage Patron

    SausageInYourFace
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    Your first point has fuck all to do with what I was arguing and your second point is a shit argument.
     
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  12. Grimwulf Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Grimwulf
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    The :russia: is stong in you.
     
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  13. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Grimwulf bro, let go of the RusRpg hate man.

    And Wyrmie, don't them classes need effort and prior levelling to reach?

    These are prestige classes after all, a reward for sticking so long with a specific build etc., yes?
    So while it makes some sense to cut down on weaknesses, being god of all skills like in TES really fucks your replayability don't it?
     
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  14. hoverdog dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive Developer

    hoverdog
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    comparing oblibion's/rimjob's systems to d20 prestige classes is indeed :retarded: worthy of Wyrmbot.

    case A: you can have 100/100 in all attributes and skills by simply grinding hard like a chinese gold farmer. No planning involved.

    case B: advanced classes with have specific prerequisites that amplify the power of specific builds.

    Yes, advancing in Arcane Trickster is more profitable than adding Wizard and Rogue levels. But you need to gain several Wizard and Rogue levels first AND you still won't be as good at wizardry as a Wizard or at thievery as a Rogue. Besides, what would be the point of the class if it wasn't better? That's what prestige classes are all about.
     
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  15. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Skyrim is a game with only one character, thus it must allow to let him train himself in all areas, otherwise he could get into unsolvable situation. (It's true he gets some companions that can do things like lockpicking or acting as meatshields in combat, but that's all.)
     
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  16. Ackermanus Educated

    Ackermanus
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    :4/5:

    + Usage of D&D is worth extra rage points and forced me to log in.
    + Mentioned prestige classes.
    ++ Failed to mention the loss of spellcasting/feats/attack bonus/hit points/etc necessary to join and in some cases level up in those PrCs.
    + Decent number of replies.
    +
    +/- Blackguard as a Fighter/Necromancer/Rogue. Come on man, out of all the PrCs there you picked the one less suitable for your example and with the most jarring error. Balanced out by the arcane trickster and invisible blade examples.

    - Choice of 3E instead of 5E.
    - Forgot to remove from the list PrCs like the Dwarven Defender which manages to be worse in terms of versatility than the fighter.
    - Quote in bold.
    -- Comparison to Skyrim.

    I see potential. Since the rest is mandatory for the thread title to make sense, remove all references to Assassin, Blackguard, etc., as well as the quote, and I'll give you a solid :5/5:.
     
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  17. dryan Arcane

    dryan
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    :notsureifserious:
     
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  18. set Cipher

    set
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    Except, even in the cited case, you at least have a choice of being a Necromancer-Rogue or a Thief-Warrior. In Skyrim, everyone is full-blown "all classes rolled into one whenever you want"; a non-choice.
     
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  19. Invictus Arcane The Real Fanboy

    Invictus
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    I dont understand all the Hatin on Skyrim either, I rather have a game where your actualy advance your character by doing stuff you want to do rather than NOT picking your "main skills" (Oblivion) or making cheap ass spells or jumping everywhere to mechanicaly level up (Morrowind)
    90% of Skyrim problems for me (other than the meaningless C&C and retarded writing) can be fixed by rather simple mods; dont want to fast travel? Want better quest instructions so you dont have to use markers? You want static enemies and loot? You want guilds to be exclusive? Hell there is even a pretty good mod that gives the Civil War much more depth
    People here cry about Larpers but love when the game tell you how to play it; you dont want to use mods? Then put your hormones under control and try to roleplay as you want your character to be
     
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  20. Go back to GD wyrmlord
     
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  21. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    I kinda wonder if people her played Skyrim. For the record I think using character builds is bit silly. Why have absurd restrictions that helps only calculator minmaxer monkeys that would abuse system anyway? When you would like to do some in character playing, you are screwed by difficulty designed for these minmaxers.

    But, luckily for them Skyrim has limited number of perk points, thus without hacking, there is limited number of astral signs that you can activate. (Shouts would completely remedy that problem however.)
     
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  22. dryan Arcane

    dryan
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    You gotta be trolling.
     
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  23. Harold Arcane

    Harold
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    LARPfags. LARPfags never change.
     
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  24. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    And that shows the reason for this shit. The average Bethesda player, which I believe is much stupider than the average gamer, would be outraged at the idea of say not being able to open some door because they don't have and will not have the required skill. In fact it would go against the very concept of RPGs which as we all know is about being everybody at the same time.
     
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  25. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator Patron

    Jaesun
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