Game News Dragon Age FAQ: bullshit vs reality

[Chuckwick]

Dave, I just want to know one thing. The guy who wrote the thing about enslaving nations under the tyranny of your necromancy, did he get fired?

 

[bryce777]

I can see it now.

if(darkside points>200)
{

doTyrranicalNecromancyEnslavementEndingCutscene();
}else
{
doRescueTheKingEndingCutScene();
}

 

[Andrej]

We're all disgruntled, angry and quite dissapointed at how games turn out to be nowadays. The game industry doesn't seem to be going anywhere where we want it to.So why not bitch like mad and cry our eyes out. Let's all assault D. Gaider and crucify him while spewing our curses over him?

Or let's not. Let's appreciate the fact that D. Gaider actually bothers to reply to the angry whining here.

Even if you're seriously unhappy about a game he's a part of making and you really don't like the turns you perceive the game is taking, whining agressivly at him isnt going to make it any better? Infact, it does nothing for either you, him or the game, if you really want to let out some steam, go kick a puppy or strangle a kitten.

Who gives a fuck over a faulty FAQ for a game who's still beeing developed?

 

[Drakron]

...

Or let's not. Let's appreciate the fact that D. Gaider actually bothers to reply to the angry whining here.
...

Lets not, game developers dont get a free card and a blowjob just because they post on a forum.

Thats a bad habbit people like you have, just because they have a "developer tag" they are more important that the rest of the user base.

In case you FAIL to notice this is a NOT a Dragon Age fan site, this is a general RPG site and this is the news section, we comment on news from several games.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Dave, I just want to know one thing. The guy who wrote the thing about enslaving nations under the tyranny of your necromancy, did he get fired?

No, probably promoted for creativity and excellent PR skillz.

Or let's not. Let's appreciate the fact that D. Gaider actually bothers to reply to the angry whining here.

Let's not. If you want to give developer a blowjob, pick another site. We all appreciate the fact that Dave posts here, we love his company and his style, but we raised legitimate concerns, and he's doing nobody a favor but his company by trying to address those concerns.

Even if you're seriously unhappy about a game he's a part of making and you really don't like the turns you perceive the game is taking, whining agressivly at him isnt going to make it any better? Infact, it does nothing for either you, him or the game, if you really want to let out some steam, go kick a puppy or strangle a kitten.

If you're seriously unhappy about us giving our old buddy Dave a hard time, whining isn't going to do anything about it. Alternatively, there are gazillions of sites where developers are worshipped and admiringly called DEVS. I think you would fit better in one of those places.

 

[Claw]

if you really want to let out some steam, go kick a puppy or strangle a kitten.

I'd prefer to strange a moron. Incidentally, where do you live?

 

[ExMonk]

Careful now, Andrej, you are daring to step where angels fear to tread. You are criticizing the pompous windbags on this forum for criticizing someone else. Thou shalt not criticize the criticizers! You are suggesting merciful intelligence instead of judgmental ignorance. You are defending someone that "the strain out a gnat and swallow a camel" sorts on the codex are attacking. That you must never do. For shame.

Just leave the grumpy, constipated old men alone.

VD, the codex prognosticator--how funny. He KNOWS that someone from Bioware put the "enslave a nation" line in even though they knew it was bullshit. How? Because he is VD. VD knows all. VD knows all. VD knows all. No, actually, VD makes an ass out of himself on a regular basis by being a nitpicking moron. More of the same in this post.

 

[Kamaz]

Andrej, you should know better that no one likes ass-licking morons. Codex has gained it's "fame" or recognition among RPG related people, that counting developers as well. And that's because Codex usually tends ignore authority of the big names, focusing mainly on analysis of the game.

Yes, Codex tends to over-criticise and see everything in a much more negative way than it is actually. But with all those soft, developer-friendly, stupid RPG sites (fan-sites actually, "Oh..gamedev came here..lets roll on the floor and let him step on us!"), internet DOES need site like RPGCodex. Codex offers different kind of "product" than all those other sites and this is its value.This is why people gather around Codex and this is why COdex is not another RPG site.

Despite few direct insults (like that..huh...ranting between Rex and who-was-that-nazi-guys-name), mostly staff of the COdex (and posters) have much of respect for those game developers and actually argument their bashing or ranting.

As it seems to me, Codex is never against any persons or even companies. It is against modern concept of RPG building that tends to govern all those RPG makers. Codex'ers just want good RPGs and they stand up for it. If developer gets in their way..hell, he better watch out.

 

[aboyd]

Or let's not. Let's appreciate the fact that D. Gaider actually bothers to reply to the angry whining here.

Let's not. If you want to give developer a blowjob, pick another site. We all appreciate the fact that Dave posts here, we love his company and his style, but we raised legitimate concerns, and he's doing nobody a favor but his company by trying to address those concerns.

This thread continues to confuse my moral compass. Earlier in the thread, I wanted Gaider gone, as it appeared he merely wanted to justify his BS. But after re-reading the FAQ, I find the disclaimer at the top ("subject to change") to be an almost-reasonable cover for mistakes in the FAQ.

So while I don't want Gaider on a pedestal, I'm no longer 100% sure the concerns mentioned in this thread are legit. Of course, I only speak for myself.

-Tony

 

[Vault Dweller]

<snip>

What took you so long?

Careful now, Andrej, you are daring to step where angels fear to tread. You are criticizing the pompous windbags on this forum for criticizing someone else. Thou shalt not criticize the criticizers! You are suggesting merciful intelligence instead of judgmental ignorance. You are defending someone that "the strain out a gnat and swallow a camel" sorts on the codex are attacking. That you must never do. For shame.

Same old bullshit...

VD, the codex prognosticator--how funny. He KNOWS that someone from Bioware put the "enslave a nation" line in even though they knew it was bullshit. How? Because he is VD. VD knows all.

What can I say? I'm a man of many rare skills, like reading, for example. Using only my gift of recognizing letters, I was able to learn that "That FAQ was written before the story was" (see the news post). Then, using my superior deductive reasoning and complicated time charts, I arrived to the conclusion that all that stuff about enslaving nations is bullshit because the story wasn't written yet. Thus, the person in question enthusiastically made it up.

Now, bow to my vast powahz and stop embarrassing yourself.

VD knows all. VD knows all.

How about VD has opinions and he posts them every now and then? Is that a sin? It's been awhile since I've opened up a bible.

No, actually, VD makes an ass out of himself on a regular basis by being a nitpicking moron. More of the same in this post.

I'm happy to be the source of your amusement, dear.

 

[Andrej]

Claw: Puppies are more defenceless, hence more fun to pick on even if they don't offer the resistance one often needs to bolster ones macho ego.

[...] just because they have a "developer tag" they are more important that the rest of the user base.

Come on, on the topic of news and games, I would say that someone that actually produces a game is a tab bit more important than some person sitting at home, ocassionaly getting his panties in a twist over a faulty FAQ. Wouldn't you agree? Lot's of twisted panties don't make a game.

If you want to give developer a blowjob, pick another site.

VD, If I wanted to give Dave a BJ, I'd dress up as a schoolgirl and show up at his house. Now, that's not really my intent.

We all appreciate the fact that Dave posts here, we love his company and his style, but we raised legitimate concerns, and he's doing nobody a favor but his company by trying to address those concerns.

Some of the posters did indeed raise legimate concerns over the FAQ, some didn't in my mind.

Ofcourse he's here for his company's sake, he's not signed up as Davie the Wonderboy but as a representative for his company, but admittedly, his beeing here also benefits this forum.

If you're seriously unhappy about us giving our old buddy Dave a hard time, whining isn't going to do anything about it.

Actually, you're right.

Alternatively, there are gazillions of sites where developers are worshipped and admiringly called DEVS. I think you would fit better in one of those places.

I wouldn't know, I do not frequent such places nor do I have any intent to. I lurk here time to time, post ocassionaly when I feel active enough and pay more attention to a non-gamerelated forum elsewhere.

 

[Dgaider]

I'm not asking for special treatment, nor do I expect any. What I wouldn't mind, Andrej, is reasonable and intelligent debate -- when I get it here (which isn't often) it's generally quite rewarding.

That line about enslaving nations is utter bullshit and you know it, so stop pretending that the criticism is unreasonable.

No, it wasn't -- I said the FAQ was done before the story was written, not before it was envisioned or planned out. I could go into detail over why and what specifically has changed, but I can't without explaining what we do have now. It's similar -- but not similar enough that that line applies any longer. I don't expect your blind trust, but I'm not sure why you think I would lie about this.

Seriously, had we just updated the FAQ as planned I doubt it would even have been noticed or commented upon. It seems I shouldn't have said anything at all. This kind of "you owe us, we're the customer" attitude is what drives developers towards being less communicative, certainly not more. And that's not a threat or anything, just a simple observation.

 

[bryce777]

We're all disgruntled, angry and quite dissapointed at how games turn out to be nowadays. The game industry doesn't seem to be going anywhere where we want it to.So why not bitch like mad and cry our eyes out. Let's all assault D. Gaider and crucify him while spewing our curses over him?

Or let's not. Let's appreciate the fact that D. Gaider actually bothers to reply to the angry whining here.

Even if you're seriously unhappy about a game he's a part of making and you really don't like the turns you perceive the game is taking, whining agressivly at him isnt going to make it any better? Infact, it does nothing for either you, him or the game, if you really want to let out some steam, go kick a puppy or strangle a kitten.

Who gives a fuck over a faulty FAQ for a game who's still beeing developed?

If you just sit back and take it, you will find all the games are utter crap that just plop a sword in some farmer's hand and call it an rpg. Oh wait, too late!

The hypocrisy is pretty funny too, since you are the only one whining that I can see.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Or let's not. Let's appreciate the fact that D. Gaider actually bothers to reply to the angry whining here.

Let's not. If you want to give developer a blowjob, pick another site. We all appreciate the fact that Dave posts here, we love his company and his style, but we raised legitimate concerns, and he's doing nobody a favor but his company by trying to address those concerns.

This thread continues to confuse my moral compass. Earlier in the thread, I wanted Gaider gone, as it appeared he merely wanted to justify his BS. But after re-reading the FAQ, I find the disclaimer at the top ("subject to change") to be an almost-reasonable cover for mistakes in the FAQ.

So while I don't want Gaider on a pedestal, I'm no longer 100% sure the concerns mentioned in this thread are legit. Of course, I only speak for myself.

-Tony

That's how I see it. When you read in a FAQ that the game will have 5 classes and 50 spells, it's reasonable to assume that the game will have a number classes and spells. The exact number and nature of those classes and spells may change.

When you read that you would be able to enslave nations with necromancy, you make assumptions about the scope of a game and the extent of player's powers and nature of magic. Enslaving nations is a more complicated affair than casting a fireball. It also indicates the size of a gameworld. Then turns out that instead of enslaving nations with necromancy you would be able to kill a person with death. That's called false advertisement. It's not a minor mistake, like "Oh well, we decided to go with 4 classes instead of 5, sorry, guys" - that's understandable. In this case, it was more like if Bethesda stated that FO3 will be turn-based and isometric, and then said "Well, it's FP and RT. FAQ? What FAQ? Oh, that was an early version. Didn't you see the "things may change" disclaimer?

Same goes for hero vs villain and other stuff in the FAQ.

 

[ExMonk]

What can I say? I'm a man of many rare skills, like reading, for example. Using only my gift of recognizing letters, I was able to learn that "That FAQ was written before the story was" (see the news post). Then, using my superior deductive reasoning and complicated time charts, I arrived to the conclusion that all that stuff about enslaving nations is bullshit because the story wasn't written yet. Thus, the person in question enthusiastically made it up.

Now, bow to my vast powahz and stop embarrassing yourself.

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you? The point is you do NOT know that somebody made it up. It is just as likely that the feature was originally planned but as the story was developed it no longer made sense. But that's no fun! It's much more fun to rush to judgment and be the codex moral crusader! The leader of the tiny resistance fighting against the evil empire (big, soulless rpg companies).

All I know is this: if God watches every word you speak and write as closely as you do the words of rpg marketing people and judges you like you do them, you are in BIG, BIG trouble...

 

[Drakron]

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you?...

Nope, thats you.

 

[ExMonk]

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you?...

Nope, thats you.

Another eloquent and reasoned contribution from Dacron.

 

[bryce777]

What can I say? I'm a man of many rare skills, like reading, for example. Using only my gift of recognizing letters, I was able to learn that "That FAQ was written before the story was" (see the news post). Then, using my superior deductive reasoning and complicated time charts, I arrived to the conclusion that all that stuff about enslaving nations is bullshit because the story wasn't written yet. Thus, the person in question enthusiastically made it up.

Now, bow to my vast powahz and stop embarrassing yourself.

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you? The point is you do NOT know that somebody made it up. It is just as likely that the feature was originally planned but as the story was developed it no longer made sense. But that's no fun! It's much more fun to rush to judgment and be the codex moral crusader! The leader of the tiny resistance fighting against the evil empire (big, soulless rpg companies).

All I know is this: if God watches every word you speak and write as closely as you do the words of rpg marketing people and judges you like you do them, you are in BIG, BIG trouble...

First off, god forgives, so if you screw up once in a while then it's no big deal. Especially if there is no harm intended.

Second, I don't always agree with the VD here, but he is one of the very, very few people here who is capable of presenting a coherent argument without resorting to hostility. An actual argument, not just going back and forth in circles disagreeing.

Now, I am not saying the VD is infallible but usually his arguments generally make sense even if his basic values and believes are not always the same as my own.

It is pretty obvious that the changes between enslaving nations with necromancy and raising a skeleton are pretty major. Much different than say, well we were gonna have monks but now we'll have warriors who can just use the unarmed skill. Sorry guys, NO MONK MODELS FOR YUO.

Also, his opinion is hardly irrational, or something he has layed into them for ad nauseum like some people do the blunt weapons in oblivion. Or like a lot of the bansheelike irrationals like tintin who constantly complain not about games but about people here. Well, sorry dude, but the software in their heads has already gone gold so to speak, so it truly is useless to do that.

Take yourself. I can hardly take you seriously, because you find any obscure, pathetic way to work god into any conversation here. It is difficult to believe this is not some act, to be honest. If it is, then you should be ashamed of yourself if you are trying to mock people of faith. If not, then I apologize for that last bit, but I think you should lighten up a bit and perhaps be a tad less judgemental. I am at times here, but it is meant in a jovial sort of way. For the most part.

 

[ExMonk]

What can I say? I'm a man of many rare skills, like reading, for example. Using only my gift of recognizing letters, I was able to learn that "That FAQ was written before the story was" (see the news post). Then, using my superior deductive reasoning and complicated time charts, I arrived to the conclusion that all that stuff about enslaving nations is bullshit because the story wasn't written yet. Thus, the person in question enthusiastically made it up.

Now, bow to my vast powahz and stop embarrassing yourself.

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you? The point is you do NOT know that somebody made it up. It is just as likely that the feature was originally planned but as the story was developed it no longer made sense. But that's no fun! It's much more fun to rush to judgment and be the codex moral crusader! The leader of the tiny resistance fighting against the evil empire (big, soulless rpg companies).

All I know is this: if God watches every word you speak and write as closely as you do the words of rpg marketing people and judges you like you do them, you are in BIG, BIG trouble...

First off, god forgives, so if you screw up once in a while then it's no big deal. Especially if there is no harm intended.

Second, I don't always agree with the VD here, but he is one of the very, very few people here who is capable of presenting a coherent argument without resorting to hostility. An actual argument, not just going back and forth in circles disagreeing.

Now, I am not saying the VD is infallible but usually his arguments generally make sense even if his basic values and believes are not always the same as my own.

It is pretty obvious that the changes between enslaving nations with necromancy and raising a skeleton are pretty major. Much different than say, well we were gonna have monks but now we'll have warriors who can just use the unarmed skill. Sorry guys, NO MONK MODELS FOR YUO.

Also, his opinion is hardly irrational, or something he has layed into them for ad nauseum like some people do the blunt weapons in oblivion. Or like a lot of the bansheelike irrationals like tintin who constantly complain not about games but about people here. Well, sorry dude, but the software in their heads has already gone gold so to speak, so it truly is useless to do that.

Take yourself. I can hardly take you seriously, because you find any obscure, pathetic way to work god into any conversation here. It is difficult to believe this is not some act, to be honest. If it is, then you should be ashamed of yourself if you are trying to mock people of faith. If not, then I apologize for that last bit, but I think you should lighten up a bit and perhaps be a tad less judgemental. I am at times here, but it is meant in a jovial sort of way. For the most part.

Thanks for the well reasoned reply. Trust me, my talking about God is not an act, it is sincere. Yes, God forgives, but only if a person repents of their sin and turns to Christ for forgiveness. I don't deny that I have been heavy on the Law, but it is because of all the mocking of God and Christianity that I see here (whether in jest or not). Mostly, though, I do it because I truly want everyone (including everyone here) to be right with God. My life with God is a 24/7 thing.

As for VD, he is a shrewd observer and, I agree, usually quite articulate in arguing and explaining. But he does have a tendency of taking statements out of context and putting them in the worst possible light in order to serve his purpose. I agree with him much of the time. But when I don't, and I perceive him to be "crucifying" someone unfairly, I react and respond, just to bring sunshine into his life.

I will try to lighten up, though. For the most part, I enjoy what I read here.

 

[Avin]

If you are a gamer and reads about a game that promises a path where you can enslave a nation with necromany and then they step back, well, there's no PR solution for some fan's disappointment.

that's just it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

No, it wasn't -- I said the FAQ was done before the story was written, not before it was envisioned or planned out.

Something like:

- Wouldn't it be cool if you could, like, totally enslave nations with some cool shit like necromancy?
- I like that. It's good. Write it down. Now, back to the story, you must find 4....

I don't expect your blind trust, but I'm not sure why you think I would lie about this.

NWN empty promises ring any bells? Anyway, don't know if you noticed, but I posted a number of your comments about various things in DA, and we took that seriously, with trust (and understanding that things may change) and respect for you. We do hate the PR bullshit that Bioware took to a new level, so don't confuse one with another.

This kind of "you owe us, we're the customer" attitude is what drives developers towards being less communicative, certainly not more.

Oh, please. There is a difference between making honest statements and making shit up to impress people.

 

[Volourn]

"we love his company and his style"

Bullshit. I hope this line is sarcasm 'cause it isn't true.


"Codex'ers just want good RPGs and they stand up for it."

Bullshit.

a) The Codex wants good RPGs made the way they want.

b) Anyone that thinks games like TOEE or the old GB games are the eptium of RPGs doesn't know what a RPG is.



"Codex is never against any persons or even companies"

Bullshit.

BIO makes RT RPG. They get bashed.

Troika makes RT RPG. They get praised.

Don't bullshit. The Codexers ar ejust as bias if not more so than the biggest BIO fanboy (the ones who rate NWN OC 75% or call KOTOR overrated ) or the biggest MW fnaboy.

They suck Troika's dick, and spread lies to boost their self worth. Don't help their sinfulcause.


"NWN empty promises ring any bells?"

NWN had no empty promises. It delivered everything it promised. Delusions of the slef worth of your lowly opinion means crap.

 

[Avin]

"BIO makes RT RPG. They get bashed.

Troika makes RT RPG. They get praised. "

at least troika gave us choices other than "save the world cause you are teh good / save the world cause you earn money".

 

[Volourn]

Eh? You obviously haven't played JE where you don't 'save the world/empire'; but enslave it.

R00fles!

Nor does your lame sidewind to avoid the point of what you quoted change the lameness of the Codex hypocrisy, and biaseness towards certain developers as evdienced by my exmaple.

Game over.

 

[Avin]

haven't played JE, dumbfuck, but you're obviously wrong, of course.