Game News Dragon Age FAQ: bullshit vs reality

[gromit]

So, uhm, why did they try to get so damn specific in the FAQ in the first place? What's the point in starting the hype machine up early, if it can only give hypotheticals, and why, if you can only give hypotheticals, describe specific ones instead of the general vague PR talk? Not that I don't appreciate a company trying to give some actual meat out rather than the old "it'll be so epic, and you'll play a role," but there's -got- to be some middle ground to avoid situations like this. I haven't been "cruisin' and newsin'" much lately, but I'd imagine much of the possible gain from what was intended as community outreach may have suffered a little blowback.

Not that I want to get too involved in the page and a half of crap that always sits between topical posts, but while we're playing "but THIS was in the bible, too," here's a two-for-one for a good 80% of the ole Codex: Judge not, and ditch the pride already.

 

[Dgaider]

Well, I think Volourn has the right of it (wait wait... this isn't as ludicrous a statement as that premise might make it appear) in that when it comes to publicizing games that are still in development it's a bit of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Truly if we kept our info restricted to stuff we were 100% sure of, we would end up making only the vaguest, most guarded statements -- and even 6 months prior to release we would still only commit to the broadest of feature lists.

For people who come to a website devoted to reporting on games and who rely on that steady stream of information, I think it's a bit strange that they would espouse the idea that such guardedness would be preferable.

Regardless, I suppose it's fair to suggest that an FAQ is not an appropriate place to put marketing hype. Hype is so ubiquitous in the industry, it seems that we are incapable of communicating anything to the public without feeling the need to translate it into Super Awesome, first. How that might change, of if it even can, is probably a seperate discussion, though, so I'll leave it at that.

I'll just say in closing that I actually think a lot of you here might like Dragon Age -- it's certainly the most hardcore game we've done since BG2. That might not mean much to some of you, I suppose, but there it is.

 

[RGE]

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you?

I'd say that we are all beings of limited intelligence. But when I was a teenager I too enjoyed telling my family how limited their intelligence was. This lasted until the day my dad told me that it wasn't such a nice thing to do. I guess that I was at least smart enough to know that voicing my opinion about their intelligence didn't make them any smarter, so why annoy them any further?

Perhaps you don't feel like a being of limited intelligence though, what with having a deity whispering in your ear 24/7. Lording that over those of us who aren't so lucky isn't a nice thing to do, and won't make us believe or make us smarter or whatever.

The point is you do NOT know that somebody made it up. It is just as likely that the feature was originally planned but as the story was developed it no longer made sense.

I've been planning an NWN module for quite some time now, and if I had been a big company I might've been certain that the module would actually be done, and then I might've written a FAQ (the F is for "faked") describing how players would be able to run slave caravans between different settlements. Today I might've had to change that FAQ to "no, probably not, I'm thinking of randomized quests centered around a secret society". So I can totally see how BioWare might've originally planned actual enslaving of nations using necromancy, since that would fit rather well with the epic massive battles that seemed to be planned for Dragon Age.

But that's no fun! It's much more fun to rush to judgment and be the codex moral crusader! The leader of the tiny resistance fighting against the evil empire (big, soulless rpg companies).

Yes, precisely. Being reasonable would only defuse the conflict, while jumping to the worst possible conclusion fuels the Codex and gets people posting. We shall all mourn the lost innocence of those who were waiting for Dragon Age to let them enslave nations with necromancy. Now they know true evil.

The point is that BioWare so blatantly allows their PR hypers crawl into FAQ knowing very well they will never allow "enslaving nations with necromancy" as gameplay (not story) element. No one really cares for that enslaving thing, just give us not-stupid RPG with choices, stats and freedom. Confess, did you really even accepted the possibility of having such feature? IMO it's allways been just poetic bullshit from PR department to help propel this next game.

I think I remember some post saying how that feature would make the game worth playing, but I can't find it, so maybe I confused it with the Vignettes & Backgrounds thread. But you could be right about it being more of a story element than a gameplay element. That would explain why writing the story would change that part.

 

[obediah]

I'll just say in closing that I actually think a lot of you here might like Dragon Age -- it's certainly the most hardcore game we've done since BG2. That might not mean much to some of you, I suppose, but there it is.

I imagine I'll buy it on day 1, and I'm really not that concerned with loading a FAQ with uncertainty.

I understand that adding new content can be a slow process, but removing wrong and misleading information should be done immediately. The fact that the wrong information is still up days after this thread started shows that you don't give a shit about accurately positioning the game to potential customers. You can yap all you want design processes, and the mean old codex that doesn't like anything bioware, but all the hand waving in the world doesn't change that you've acknowledged the info is wrong - and as such every second the FAQ remains as is is a second that bioware is intentionally lieing to people about Dragon Age. Accidently stepping on someone's foot is one thing, keeping it there after they yelp is another.

 

[Twinfalls]

Hype is so ubiquitous in the industry, it seems that we are incapable of communicating anything to the public without feeling the need to translate it into Super Awesome, first.

Well, a nice start would be to avoid saying things like

certainly the most hardcore game we've done since BG2.

- and use meaningful words instead of 'hardcore'. If the game is sophisticated, intelligent, has depth, has basic RPG features like stats and real decisions, then say so. The word 'Hardcore' is one of the little ways which dumbing down spreads, for it serves to put off the programmed masses for whom it translates as 'too hard and boring'. Anything TB is probably by default referred to as 'HC' in todays wonderful world.

 

[almondblight]

The point is that BioWare so blatantly allows their PR hypers crawl into FAQ knowing very well they will never allow "enslaving nations with necromancy" as gameplay (not story) element. No one really cares for that enslaving thing, just give us not-stupid RPG with choices, stats and freedom. Confess, did you really even accepted the possibility of having such feature? IMO it's allways been just poetic bullshit from PR department to help propel this next game.

Exactly. As you and Bryce said, they probably had some "pick from x choices at the end" or "if evil points > 200 play 'enslave nation' final cutscene". Then the PR guys go into the fact and they make it seem like you can do whatever you want in the world, with free roaming empire building elements. So they put it in there knowing it's a white lie, but they figure they can say it's technically accurate because if you pick option A, you do enslave a nation. Then they want to have different options for people, but now they're kind of stuck because the hype was BS in the first place. So they give these very nebulous answers like Dave's "I could tell you why we changed it but then I would have to explain what we have now etc. etc. but if you actually developed games like me you would know things changed". Also why he doesn't answer anyone's questions about what was actually planned.

At least that's how I see it.

The problem seems to be that they should have said in the FAQ, "multiple storyline paths will be open to you, you can choose to enslave nations or free them in your EPIC adventure." Then later they could have said, "well, the story has changed a bit so the different paths are a bit different now."

I think the "well, we could not say anything to you guys at all" response is pretty silly. It seems the problem here is not saying enough, not one of saying too much. I've seen games were the developers were as open as they could be with the fans, and I don't think anyone was disappointed. Be open with information is not the same as feeding people PR half-truths.

 

[callehe]

Yes, I have. As recently as today.

Actually, challenging other people's intelligence who unfairly criticize or are abusive of others or God is very Christian. Christ himself did it more than once; so did the prophets and the apostles. You want references? I'll give you references.

You kind of missed my point. So I'll be blunt:

No one wants to hear your fucking preaching. You are like the annoying Jehova Witness ringing the doorbell on Saturday morning. Take your preaching and stick it up your ass. I am tired of scrolling 50 lines every thread to ignore your boring bullshit. Dealing with stupid bullshit is acceptable if it is game related. If you want to preach, go to church where people care. You're a hypocrite anyway. You just want to hear yourself talk.

Amen!

 

[Kamaz]

Yes, I have. As recently as today.

Actually, challenging other people's intelligence who unfairly criticize or are abusive of others or God is very Christian. Christ himself did it more than once; so did the prophets and the apostles. You want references? I'll give you references.

You kind of missed my point. So I'll be blunt:

No one wants to hear your fucking preaching. You are like the annoying Jehova Witness ringing the doorbell on Saturday morning. Take your preaching and stick it up your ass. I am tired of scrolling 50 lines every thread to ignore your boring bullshit. Dealing with stupid bullshit is acceptable if it is game related. If you want to preach, go to church where people care. You're a hypocrite anyway. You just want to hear yourself talk.

Yup.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, I think Volourn has the right of it (wait wait... this isn't as ludicrous a statement as that premise might make it appear)...

You do know that when you agree with Volourn, it's time to reevaluate your position? :wink:

For people who come to a website devoted to reporting on games and who rely on that steady stream of information, I think it's a bit strange that they would espouse the idea that such guardedness would be preferable.

Not really. You are moving from extreme (making shit up) to another extreme (saying nothing at all). How about the middle ground?

Regardless, I suppose it's fair to suggest that an FAQ is not an appropriate place to put marketing hype.

Which was my original point. Thank you, David. You are a scholar and a gentleman.

I'll just say in closing that I actually think a lot of you here might like Dragon Age -- it's certainly the most hardcore game we've done since BG2. That might not mean much to some of you, I suppose, but there it is.

It's the only game I'm looking forward to, especially if those things you mentioned previously are in the game.

 

[HardCode]

... in that when it comes to publicizing games that are still in development it's a bit of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Truly if we kept our info restricted to stuff we were 100% sure of, we would end up making only the vaguest, most guarded statements -- and even 6 months prior to release we would still only commit to the broadest of feature lists.

I think the idea is that "don't let Marketing touch anything before the overall design is finalized." We'd never see a car commercial for an upcoming Chevrolet before the engineers worked out what the car will be. Same for pretty much ANY product. Betty Crocker doesn't advertise a muffin mix for a product that isn't through the planning stage.

Why do game companies feel they need to advertise ideas as products? Instead, wait and advertise products as products.

 

[ExMonk]

Yes, I have. As recently as today.

Actually, challenging other people's intelligence who unfairly criticize or are abusive of others or God is very Christian. Christ himself did it more than once; so did the prophets and the apostles. You want references? I'll give you references.

You kind of missed my point. So I'll be blunt:

No one wants to hear your fucking preaching. You are like the annoying Jehova Witness ringing the doorbell on Saturday morning. Take your preaching and stick it up your ass. I am tired of scrolling 50 lines every thread to ignore your boring bullshit. Dealing with stupid bullshit is acceptable if it is game related. If you want to preach, go to church where people care. You're a hypocrite anyway. You just want to hear yourself talk.

Let me get this out of the way first: I will continue to post whatever I want, just as you do. Sorry to disappoint you, sweety. Second, so now you speak for every person on the codex? "No one wants to hear..." Third, poor little Hardcode. I feel so badly that the wittle baby has to scroll through 50 lines of every thread, and that he gets tired doing so. Breaks my heart. Fourth, you've got me. I do like to hear myself talk; but then, so does everybody who posts here, including you. If that makes me a hypocrite, then I'm in good company.

I'm going to continue to talk about God when it suits me. Deal with it.

 

[ExMonk]

... in that when it comes to publicizing games that are still in development it's a bit of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Truly if we kept our info restricted to stuff we were 100% sure of, we would end up making only the vaguest, most guarded statements -- and even 6 months prior to release we would still only commit to the broadest of feature lists.

I think the idea is that "don't let Marketing touch anything before the overall design is finalized." We'd never see a car commercial for an upcoming Chevrolet before the engineers worked out what the car will be. Same for pretty much ANY product. Betty Crocker doesn't advertise a muffin mix for a product that isn't through the planning stage.

Why do game companies feel they need to advertise ideas as products? Instead, wait and advertise products as products.

This is actually extremely well said. Great clarifying statement that summarizes the concerns of the people in this thread.

 

[Volourn]

"Why do game companies feel they need to advertise ideas as products?"

That's easy. It's ebcause their customers DEMAND it. Look at any game company board. It's full of questions about the games whether they're announced or not. And, if the answers aren't forthcoming they're accused of being bastards, selfish, and a host of other names. That's why they give out ideas even if they aren't finalized.

I seriously doubt that Betty Crocker fans (lol) pester about her next great cookie idea over, and over again like a broken record so that company feels no need to do so as to please them.

So, in essence, blame YOU.

 

[Micmu]

That's easy. It's ebcause their customers DEMAND it. Look at any game company board. It's full of questions about the games whether they're announced or not. And, if the answers aren't forthcoming they're accused of being bastards, selfish, and a host of other names. That's why they give out ideas even if they aren't finalized.

Yeah this sounds like an easy explanation.
Game companies give out fantastic ideas because they're selling their games on hype, pretty much like any other companies sell their products.

 

[Drakron]

Well, I think Volourn has the right of it (wait wait... this isn't as ludicrous a statement as that premise might make it appear) in that when it comes to publicizing games that are still in development it's a bit of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Truly if we kept our info restricted to stuff we were 100% sure of, we would end up making only the vaguest, most guarded statements -- and even 6 months prior to release we would still only commit to the broadest of feature lists.

I sugest you look at Fable were they released information about features that never made it to the final build.

Look at the result, a lot of angry people and a lot of negative feedback from reviews.

Then look at Oblivion ... sure we are pissed at features of Morrowind that were cut but their Codex never stated they were in.

For people who come to a website devoted to reporting on games and who rely on that steady stream of information, I think it's a bit strange that they would espouse the idea that such guardedness would be preferable.

Ah but you see there are websites devoted for movies and they dont report stuff as "Anakin kills the younglings" 6 months before the movie is shown.

Problem is the gaming industry moved into support titles with hype and not actuall content.

Regardless, I suppose it's fair to suggest that an FAQ is not an appropriate place to put marketing hype. Hype is so ubiquitous in the industry, it seems that we are incapable of communicating anything to the public without feeling the need to translate it into Super Awesome, first. How that might change, of if it even can, is probably a seperate discussion, though, so I'll leave it at that.

FAQ means Frequent Asked Questions.

When someone makes a FAQ it sould be about what are the questions people ask about the game.

Now if someone asks for street directions you simply make stuff up because you dont know or you say "sorry, I dont know."?

If you want to a official site devoted to the game we expect the hype ... we all know that when a game developer says "80 hours of game play" that means we finish the game in 20 hours.

I'll just say in closing that I actually think a lot of you here might like Dragon Age -- it's certainly the most hardcore game we've done since BG2. That might not mean much to some of you, I suppose, but there it is.

Oh but it does ... you see BG2 was pretty much the high point of BioWare RPGs with everything after it was not half as good.

And no, Jade Empire was the last BioWare title I got and most because my Xbox was collecting dust and it returned to collect dust about 3 days after I got it.

 

[Volourn]

"Look at the result, a lot of angry people and a lot of negative feedback from reviews."

Yeah, let's look at the result. Million + copies sold, high review scores, many awards, lots of fans, and the list goes on.

Yeah, the results say it all.

Very poor example there, fool.



"you see BG2 was pretty much the high point of BioWare RPGs with everything after it was not half as good."

No. NWN was. It has more ROLE-PLAYING in its pinky finger than all other CRPGs combined. The DM Client assures this.


P.S. I do (mostly) agree with you on the idea of a FAQ. :D

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

No. NWN was. It has more ROLE-PLAYING in its pinky finger than all other CRPGs combined. The DM Client assures this.

No, the players assured this.

 

[Volourn]

Without the DM Client, role-playing would be limited to pre scripted dialogue and actions much like any other CRPG.

At best, a non DMed NWN module could be as good as FO role-playing wise, at worst a non DMed NWN module could be as bad as Diablo role-playing wise.

With a DM, and no limits at all role-playing wise it can reach98% of pnp role-playing quality.

Game over.

 

[Deacdo]

No. NWN was. It has more ROLE-PLAYING in its pinky finger than all other CRPGs combined. The DM Client assures this.

NWN was garbage. Sure the multiplayer (DM Client) was the highlight, but that can hardly be credited to Bioware. It took them a long time (after release) to get it right...and it all came down to who your DM was and the player created modules.

There's little to applaud Bioware for in NWN. At the end of the day it was the crappy single player game and the weak graphics engine that would have left the greatest impression on the majority of gamers (since, even though it was a multiplayer game, the single player campaign is what most people bought NWN for).

 

[Volourn]

"the end of the day it was the crappy single player game and the weak graphics engine that would have left the greatest impression on the majority of gamers (since, even though it was a multiplayer game, the single player campaign is what most people bought NWN for)."

Which explains why NWN was successful enough to spawn two successful expansions, premium modules, countless versions of the game, a sequel, many awards, high rtaing scores, sell millions of copies, and the list on.

This proves that the majority of gamers went away (actually, still around) with a positive impression of NWN.

Mayhaps, if you stopping reading narrowminded sites like the Codex which consists of the same hansdful of masterbaiters, you'd relaized their opinions arne't factual for the vast majority of people.

LONG LIVE NWN 4EVER!


NWN > ALL OTHER BIO GAMES, BIS GAMES, TROIKA GAMES, AND ALL OTHER RPGs COMBINED!

WOO HOO!

TAKE THAT!!!

 

[Micmu]

Mayhaps, if you stopping reading narrowminded sites like the Codex which consists of the same hansdful of masterbaiters, you'd relaized their opinions arne't factual for the vast majority of people.

Opinions are like assholes - everybody's got one - and they all stink:

LONG LIVE NWN 4EVER!
NWN > ALL OTHER BIO GAMES, BIS GAMES, TROIKA GAMES, AND ALL OTHER RPGs COMBINED!
WOO HOO!
TAKE THAT!!!

 

[Jason]

I wish we could lock Volourn and ExMonk into a basement together for a week. Volourn will talk about NWN and ExMonk will talk about God until they drive each other crazy and kill each other. Or they fall in love and make some shitty religious NWN module together where you can hire Moses and Abraham as your henchmen and slaughter unbelievers with your +5 Sword of Annoyance.

 

[ExMonk]

I wish we could lock Volourn and ExMonk into a basement together for a week. Volourn will talk about NWN and ExMonk will talk about God until they drive each other crazy and kill each other. Or they fall in love and make some shitty religious NWN module together where you can hire Moses and Abraham as your henchmen and slaughter unbelievers with your +5 Sword of Annoyance.

So you're saying you wish that I was dead, just because I talk about God on a rpg forum? You've got issues.

And if someone consistently talking about the same thing annoys you that greatly, then why are you not equally annoyed with the many people here who consistenly are decrying the shameless "hype" of gaming companies? Or go on and on endlessly about the vast number of rpg's where decisons do not effect gameplay, etc.? What about those broken records? Hmm?

Oh, and Baby Cakes, leave attempts at humor to those who actually have that gift. Okay?

 

[Volourn]

"And if someone consistently talking about the same thing annoys you that greatly, then why are you not equally annoyed with the many people here who consistenly are decrying the shameless "hype" of gaming companies? Or go on and on endlessly about the vast number of rpg's where decisons do not effect gameplay, etc.? What about those broken records? Hmm?"

This should be obvious. It's okay to be repetive as long as one agrees with what's being repeated.

You notice how very few people accuse me of repetiveness when I say 'Bethesda sucks!' around here; but when I say 'NWN is awesome' I'm repetively annoying?

The only difference is they agree with me on the former and disagree with me on the latter.

Hypocrites.

That's what the Codex is about.

And, what makes it awesome!

 

[Jason]

"Oh, and Baby Cakes, leave attempts at humor to those who actually have that gift. Okay?"

Well, I amuse myself at least and that's probably the best I can hope for thses days. Obviously, you know I don't wish you were dead or you wouldn't have made the jab at my "attempts at humor".

Most of the other broken records around here don't bother me because I don't have people around me in real (non-internet) life talking about Oblivion or Bioware or whatever nonstop. I don't hang out with any actual gamers. Unfortunately, I have had people around me in real life talking (preaching) about God and Salvation, etc from a very early age, telling me what to think and believe or I'm going to Hell. So it's more annoying for me to endure the God broken records than the gaming broken records (usually). It's a pretty common bias among us former Catholics.

I have nothing against Volourn. It's fun to talk shit about him because he gleefully and intentionally invites it. It's like pissing on someone with a golden shower fetish, everybody's happy.