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Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

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IncendiaryDevice

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Now I'll give maxing weaponry & crit a go instead & see if it's just the usual game of speed.

(Yeah, I could have used the bombs on them & all that crap, but apparently I'm not supposed to use them if I'm so damn good ;) )

&

There is guy on steam Kirill or something who said he finished the game with archer with 0 in defensive skills, I guess dodge. Solo, maybe even IM - possibly not.

After I saw his post I decided to go that way, only in two man team - Marcus and my crossbowman.
The hardest experience so far, I got to a last fight before that berserker guy after Roxane - on IM.
Abandoned it not because I failed IMin that fight, but because game failed to save properly, so I should start from the first fight with Roxane.
Obviously my char had 0 in Dodge.

Nope, pure attack with a two-handed hammer just dies too quickly, 6 in hammer & 3 in Critical dies to Barca without bombs, let alone getting to the next gang.

It seems I had the balance just about right the first time. Oh well.
 
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Fenix

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Saduj

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If you're going block, don't you find a set of bronze Lorica armor before you even get to Barca?

That spear guy in the fight right after Barca is a bastard though. I always had some trouble with that fight. I always played with 4 man parties and would try to get someone in the face of the spear guy ASAP.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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Every one of those links is Nov/Dec 2016.

Too low. Solo I started with 8 in either block or dodge. By this moment I have 10 I guess.

We weren't talking about solo, we were talking about 1+1.

If you're going block, don't you find a set of bronze Lorica armor before you even get to Barca?

That spear guy in the fight right after Barca is a bastard though. I always had some trouble with that fight. I always played with 4 man parties and would try to get someone in the face of the spear guy ASAP.

No, no Bronze Armour before Barca, unless there's some in the various stashes around the boss-insects on the lower level, which you wont do if you fight Barca before going down there, which is the more sensible course of action.

Just started a normal 4 man group, my character is a fuck-all character, maxing alchemy & throwing weapons with 10 CHA & 10 DEX & fuck all STR. Utterly useless. All the throwing weapons are gone before you even get to Barca & even if you had some they all do zero damage. Dude just stands at the back & watches the other 3 do everything, it's fucking laughably shite.

However, this gang cleared up to the first Forge without using any bombs, hey, just like my first game where my main was an Archer. LOL@Throwing Weapons being related to STR and not DEX with regard to hit value. & LOL@going to 10 CHA and it not increasing the party size to 5, all 8-10 CHA totals are static at 3 companions, meanwhile all other stats get huge boosts from going to 10. Why 10? I want that dude that comes later who wont join at 8. Assuming I survive that long, or even still give a shit by that point.

Likewise, Ardomer is shit at daggers. My max-DEX got me the 'special dagger' which has less damage than the regular Bronze one you find without a skill check, 0 0 0 2 0 1, lol, what a rip-off. The only worthwhile aspect is those 1s can add poison, assuming you have enough of it. So I guess the reason this posse made it is because I can craft +7 poison vials. Can't use them forever though! Oh no, gotta restrict those Alchemy builds, wouldn't want a Wizard class making the game look easy ;)

Next up, wasting some more skill points to get the retarded Helion up to 6 in Crafting. Assuming anything I do is viable, of course.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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10 cha is useless except for enlisting the demon shortly before the end of the game, Ingvar (8 block/8 axe/7 crit or something like that) requires 9 CHA.
Those 3 campfire blokes have enough SP to level up a skill to 3. So you can have someone with 3 alch or 3 crafting from the beginning. Just kick them from the party again when they're done crafting so you don't share SP with them.
If you use throwing weapons you need to 1) use all the pebbles (use aimed head) and 2) craft wooden spears, i.e. decompose wood/wooden stuff, craft spears.

An easy way, perhaps the most easy way even, is to make a char with high CHA/INT, i.e. CHA9 INT 10 (or 9 or slightly less depending on how much you want to contribute combatwise but you need at least 7, 9 is probably best), rest in PER. Only level alch and crafting until you have maxed out both. That way you never need to share XP with anybody except those you plan on taking thru the game, which are: Markus, Roxana, Ingvar (Ardomir temporary). Put your main char into the heaviest armor and take the heaviest shield and then park him somewhere where he won't get attacked and/or try to LOS the encounter once it has started. Put combat points into block only. Never do anything at all in combat except exterminating enemy alchemists with bombs in the first round of combat, you'll get to loot all their stuff which usually pays off and is worth the 2-3 bombs or whatever you have to use to kill them right away. Keep acid, liquid fire ingredients until you can craft the high lvl AoE stuff from it.

At the beginning have Markus tank, increase his dodge to 10 before putting points into hammers, and Adomir shoot xbows, never increase Adomir's dodge, only put points into offense for better THC. Once you've cleared the first forge craft 4 hand xbows for him. Always use the strongest poison. Always have antidote preemptively ready on Markus and everybody else who might take poison dmg. Learn to funnel the encounter into a choke point where possible so markus has to tank only 1 at a time alsways using aimed arms to debuff their accuracy while your DPS kills the others first.
When you get Roxana kick Ardomir out. Only level throwing until increasing accuracy thru synergy (bows, xbows) becomes cheaper than to continue to increase throwing. She can easily have 140 attack with her high Per. Crafted throwing knives, crafting 10 whetstone, 11dmg poison, high alch eagleeye+berserk potion and she can rape the enforcer and his men in like 2 combat rounds. All of them.

Keep a lot of AoE acid, AoE fire and bombs for the construct fights later. Especially bombs only use them if fighting an alchemist or if you have to due to other reason (like killing the emperor before he can act etc).
Repair the construct you find (crafting 9) and use it as decoy tank for the untankable ancient construct, Markus can't tank this since they nerfed ranged defense from shields for dodgers.

Another approach that works well, take CH6, Int 7, Per8 max Alch and offense (throwing knives are best, yes) never put points into dodge except the 4 points at char creation. You should be fairly good DPS, not quite as good as Roxana but close. Here you will need Hieron to do the crafting, so kill Barca first, immediately use the bombs he gave you to kill him. You should get new bombs from his stash, use those to kill the forge encounter. If you need more you can go down and do that one insect fight (scolopendra?) there's a bomb to loot there. Then take Hieron so he gets shared XP to get closer to 10 crafting quicker.
 
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Parabalus

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IncendiaryDevice

Try 4 10 4 10 4 8 crossbow (or 8 PER 10 CHA for the dude), no def skills and put crafting on PC. You have to LoS enemy ranged a few times otherwise it should be smooth sailing.

4 man party is easymod there.

Every one of those links is Nov/Dec 2016.

:prosper:

His remark is good, the balance changes to DR were quite substantial after release.
 

Fenix

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His remark is shit because obviously he didnt read anything - tips are good, and when they are not he told that.
Maybe not in these threads, but in that about balance changes.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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His remark is shit because obviously he didnt read anything - tips are good, and when they are not he told that.
Maybe not in these threads, but in that about balance changes.

90% of the 'tips' are exactly what I fucking did you utter spastic, which you'd know if YOU'D have read a bleeding word I said. I ran out of consumables, THAT'S IT. Dumbfuck. If it's consumables which have been nerfed then, duh, old info is fucking useless, duh.

10 cha is useless except for enlisting the demon shortly before the end of the game, Ingvar (8 block/8 axe/7 crit or something like that) requires 9 CHA.

Hilarious isn't it.

Those 3 campfire blokes have enough SP to level up a skill to 3. So you can have someone with 3 alch or 3 crafting from the beginning. Just kick them from the party again when they're done crafting so you don't share SP with them.

Hilarious isn't it.

If you use throwing weapons you need to 1) use all the pebbles (use aimed head) and 2) craft wooden spears, i.e. decompose wood/wooden stuff, craft spears.

You don't say. Never would have figured that out... not,

An easy way, perhaps the most easy way even, is to make a char with high CHA/INT, i.e. CHA9 INT 10 (or 9 or slightly less depending on how much you want to contribute combatwise but you need at least 7, 9 is probably best), rest in PER.

That's certainly one way. If you're referring to my newly started run, sure, however, It's really tedious clicking end-turn for my PC for the entire game, so I reduced INT and put a couple of points in Perception, just so he's not 100% dead weight in combat.

Only level alch and crafting until you have maxed out both.

Both CHA & INT? If you don't mean that then I have no idea what you mean here.

That way you never need to share XP with anybody except those you plan on taking thru the game, which are: Markus, Roxana, Ingvar (Ardomir temporary).

Well, duh.

Put your main char into the heaviest armor and take the heaviest shield and then park him somewhere where he won't get attacked and/or try to LOS the encounter once it has started. Put combat points into block only. Never do anything at all in combat except exterminating enemy alchemists with bombs in the first round of combat, you'll get to loot all their stuff which usually pays off and is worth the 2-3 bombs or whatever you have to use to kill them right away. Keep acid, liquid fire ingredients until you can craft the high lvl AoE stuff from it.

Yes, that's exactly what I did & do, as I have said multiple times.

At the beginning have Markus tank, increase his dodge to 10 before putting points into hammers, and Adomir shoot xbows, never increase Adomir's dodge, only put points into offense for better THC.

That's certainly one way to do it.

Once you've cleared the first forge craft 4 hand xbows for him.

What? Why would you want four crossbows?

Always use the strongest poison. Always have antidote preemptively ready on Markus and everybody else who might take poison dmg. Learn to funnel the encounter into a choke point where possible so markus has to tank only 1 at a time alsways using aimed arms to debuff their accuracy while your DPS kills the others first.

Oh, hey, that's what I did. Never would have figured that out on my own... not.

When you get Roxana kick Ardomir out.

Oh, hey, that's what I did. Never would have figured that out on my own... not.

Only level throwing until increasing accuracy thru synergy (bows, xbows) becomes cheaper than to continue to increase throwing.

Now this is great advice & an interestingly hilarious exploit & probably did miss. What's the cut-off point for changing to a different skill?

She can easily have 140 attack with her high Per.

Yes, that's what she did have.

Crafted throwing knives, crafting 10 whetstone, 11dmg poison, high alch eagleeye+berserk potion and she can rape the enforcer and his men in like 2 combat rounds. All of them.

Now this could be useful. I never did work out how to add poison to missiles. Though I did have some poison missiles by that point in the game anyway. Not sure I had enough bonus AP potions to do it all in one round though... Still, fascinating info, I'll have to look into applying Whetstones & poison to missiles next time I open the game up.

Keep a lot of AoE acid, AoE fire and bombs for the construct fights later. Especially bombs only use them if fighting an alchemist or if you have to due to other reason (like killing the emperor before he can act etc).
Repair the construct you find (crafting 9) and use it as decoy tank for the untankable ancient construct,

Yup, that's exactly what I've said a number of times I've been doing.

Markus can't tank this since they nerfed ranged defense from shields for dodgers.

Hilarious isn't it.

Another approach that works well, take CH6, Int 7, Per8 max Alch and offense (throwing knives are best, yes) never put points into dodge except the 4 points at char creation. You should be fairly good DPS, not quite as good as Roxana but close. Here you will need Hieron to do the crafting, so kill Barca first, immediately use the bombs he gave you to kill him. You should get new bombs from his stash, use those to kill the forge encounter. If you need more you can go down and do that one insect fight (scolopendra?) there's a bomb to loot there. Then take Hieron so he gets shared XP to get closer to 10 crafting quicker.

Yup, that's certainly another way to do it!
 

Fenix

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90% of the 'tips' are exactly what I fucking did you utter spastic, which you'd know if YOU'D have read a bleeding word I said.

You piece of shit, you didn't do ANYTHING otherwise you would tear this game apart like he did.
Where is your 68 damage crit? Where is your 80 damage per turn form a repeater crossbow - not counting poison?
Where is all of that I see in that guy's topics?


https://steamcommunity.com/app/531930/discussions/0/154644928861211763/

This

https://steamcommunity.com/app/531930/discussions/0/154644705025644164/

and this after the balance undate #2.

Eat shit.
 
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Darth Roxor

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kotc probably for one

but i would be more pressed to say that unless it's some gimmick turbo-hard game like wizardry 4, you gotta be p. bad at games in general to get owned so hard to ragequit in a rpg
 

Black Angel

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Not really, if you didn't play AoD the game is pretty hard.
I played Dungeon Rats first, and it wasn't that hard. In fact, I'd say a LOT of QoL improvement to AoD combat made it relatively easier, especially since the ITS guys did it nicely with all the adjustment to accommodate party-based gameplay.

IncendiaryDevice need to git gud, is all.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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kotc probably for one

but i would be more pressed to say that unless it's some gimmick turbo-hard game like wizardry 4, you gotta be p. bad at games in general to get owned so hard to ragequit in a rpg

This is nothing like KotC, & I had about zero problems with KotC.

Have you even played the game recently?
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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Not really, if you didn't play AoD the game is pretty hard.
I played Dungeon Rats first, and it wasn't that hard. In fact, I'd say a LOT of QoL improvement to AoD combat made it relatively easier, especially since the ITS guys did it nicely with all the adjustment to accommodate party-based gameplay.

I'm still at a loss as to how one supposed to progress without healing of any kind...
 

Darth Roxor

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nope, the last time i played it was in december 2016

but whatever changes were introduced into it, i can clearly tell that you need to git gud
 

Parabalus

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Not really, if you didn't play AoD the game is pretty hard.
I played Dungeon Rats first, and it wasn't that hard. In fact, I'd say a LOT of QoL improvement to AoD combat made it relatively easier, especially since the ITS guys did it nicely with all the adjustment to accommodate party-based gameplay.

IncendiaryDevice need to git gud, is all.

Which TB RPG do you consider harder? KotC is easier tbh, UR too.

The difficulty was upped in later patches.
 

Vault Dweller

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Not really, if you didn't play AoD the game is pretty hard.
I played Dungeon Rats first, and it wasn't that hard. In fact, I'd say a LOT of QoL improvement to AoD combat made it relatively easier, especially since the ITS guys did it nicely with all the adjustment to accommodate party-based gameplay.

IncendiaryDevice need to git gud, is all.

Which TB RPG do you consider harder? KotC is easier tbh, UR too.

The difficulty was upped in later patches.
There were 2 patches, one was released a week later in Nov, the other in December, so the Dec version is the final. The third patch added French and Polish but didn't touch anything else.

The only way to really change the difficulty is to increase the enemies' stats, skills, and numbers. We didn't do that.
 

Parabalus

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Not really, if you didn't play AoD the game is pretty hard.
I played Dungeon Rats first, and it wasn't that hard. In fact, I'd say a LOT of QoL improvement to AoD combat made it relatively easier, especially since the ITS guys did it nicely with all the adjustment to accommodate party-based gameplay.

IncendiaryDevice need to git gud, is all.

Which TB RPG do you consider harder? KotC is easier tbh, UR too.

The difficulty was upped in later patches.
There were 2 patches, one was released a week later in Nov, the other in December, so the Dec version is the final. The third patch added French and Polish but didn't touch anything else.

The only way to really change the difficulty is to increase the enemies' stats, skills, and numbers. We didn't do that.

But you did, in Update#2, all of those - including notably drastically reducing alchemy reagent amounts+effects, changing SP rewards/balance and messing with some fights.

It's definitely harder than the release version. I don't think it's too hard or anything, but it's a noticeable jump.
 

Black Angel

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Which TB RPG do you consider harder? KotC is easier tbh, UR too.
UR, tbh. Since you need to gain few levels before you can do special attacks. Meanwhile, go full hardcore in DR, and you can still get decent THC even if you go aiming at people's limbs.

I'm still at a loss as to how one supposed to progress without healing of any kind...
I'm still at a loss as to how one somehow wasted all the healings not even midway through the game....

There were 2 patches, one was released a week later in Nov, the other in December, so the Dec version is the final. The third patch added French and Polish but didn't touch anything else.

The only way to really change the difficulty is to increase the enemies' stats, skills, and numbers. We didn't do that.

But you did, in Update#2, all of those - including notably drastically reducing alchemy reagent amounts+effects, changing SP rewards/balance and messing with some fights.

It's definitely harder than the release version. I don't think it's too hard or anything, but it's a noticeable jump.
What enemies' stats, skills, and numbers are changed? I vaguely remembered the last time I booted the game, but it was certainly in latter half of 2017. Other than the changes to Axe's passive and what you mentioned (although I disagreed the fights are 'messed'), the difficulty are pretty much the same.
 

Fenix

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Is there somewhere some info about game?
I mean, I don't remember already (as usual becaue I tend to forget such details quickly) anything about stat canisters - how many of them? 3?
And condition how to get them.
I rememebr one needs crafting, and other need Con. How many crafting?
Started hour ago as blocker with a hammer, just eliminated wounded scolopendra with 7 block.

I just need to know where to go - crafting for stat canisters or alchemy....

I'm still at a loss as to how one somehow wasted all the healings not even midway through the game....

He has 2 man party which is the weakest setup possible. It's weaker than solo, and of course 4 man party.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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I'm still at a loss as to how one somehow wasted all the healings not even midway through the game....

How would I know if I was wasting healing or not?

I won each fight as it appeared, that's the game, right?

Or is the game to reload even if you win a fight until you decide whether you've lost the exact right amount of HP during that fight?
 

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