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Energy weapons in Fallout 1?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Dicksmoker, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. Dr.Faust Liturgist

    Dr.Faust
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    Yeah man I dumped everything in intelligence and charisma, gimped my endurance, agility and perception, tagged gambling, traps and barter and I got my ass handed to me by the enemies!

    Truly shit design by the developers.
     
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  2. Think big! Smoking Dicks

    Think big!
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    That's a weak strawman and you know it.
     
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  3. Radisshu Prophet

    Radisshu
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    It isn't.

    Part of the RPG thing is that you can fuck up your build and make a gimped character, it's not up to the designers to facilitate options for EVERY build. Some characters just suck (although this is a bigger issue in class-based systems, I feel).

    But you've sort of got a point, Fallout doesn't do the best job of presenting good opportunities for all the skills.
     
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  4. someone else Arcane Patron

    someone else
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    STOP CRITICISING FALLOUT GO BACK AND PLAY YOUR COUNTERSTRIKE!!!
     
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  5. sgc_meltdown Arcane

    sgc_meltdown
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    Very true. That the discussion has led to this point is an unfortunate result of most character systems being balanced for shit with the exception of the obvious options.

    Most likely this the combined result of assumptions being made about which skills are likely to be chosen the most and hence polished the most, pre-existing designer biases and developmental constraints. And of course, human error.

    is counterstrike 2 going to come out or something, does that mod not want to have a sequel or what
     
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  6. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    Jesse Heinig explained the reasoning for energy weapons being the way they are in this thread:
    So whether good or bad, it was intentional.
     
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  7. Demnogonis Saastuttaja Magister

    Demnogonis Saastuttaja
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    There's a bitch in hub you can grind unlimited skill books out of, so there you'll get you small guns to manage.
     
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  8. laclongquan Arcane

    laclongquan
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    I dont understand. You complained of unlimited grinding? Are you a asexual faggot?
     
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  9. Rogue Educated

    Rogue
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    I definitely remember at least one plasma pistol in the sewers of Necropolis. If you wait until the mutants show up the talking one also has a laser rifle.

    Apparently there are faster ways to get energy weapons. I started playing a few days ago, my character has 9 luck (for 24% critical chance at level 6). I completed Shady Sands phase 1, Vault 15 and Junktown and was on my way to The Hub to sell my awesome collection of weapons. I also bought lots of books and increased my outdoorsman skill to about 70. Then I went back to kill the Raiders and complete Shady Sands phase 2. After returning to The Hub for the 2nd time - to sell all the loot and finally do the quests - I came across a special encounter and found the Alien Blaster, an energy weapon which is totally awesome in so many ways. I was only level 5 at the time.
     
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  10. Eyeball Arcane

    Eyeball
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    Gotta agree with DS. If a game gives you the option of playing with several different types of weapons, it should make each weapon type be at least viable for the vast majority of the game. That is, you should be able to at least FIND a type of each weapon in the early game and each type should be at least powerful enough to scrape by the enemies.

    The types don't have to be balanced or anything, but they should be viable. I actually think Arcanum is a pretty decent example of this, as crappy as the combat is - it is totally possible to win the game as a warrior, a gunfighter and a mage. Sure, a mage with Harm will win the game ten times easier than the other two types, but each type can fight and win from the beginning of the game to the last boss.

    All FO games but NV and Tactics have so far failed on this account, IMO, as small guns really are the best, being far easier to find and feed with ammo than EWs and lighter and less ammo-consuming than BGs, who also tend to lack the variety in weapon types and damage penetration to make them viable against a lot of enemies such as the Enclave in FO2 and 3.

    FoT was a special case in that EWs were pretty weak for most of the game but became KING once you began running into robot enemies, and big guns definitely had their place too.
     
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  11. Antihero Educated

    Antihero
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    Speaking generally, in addition to Roguey's link, there's still fun in the challenge of waiting until a skill takes off later in the game where it might become more effective than the standard choice, but meanwhile you have to survive any other way you can. The other problem, sometimes, is in making that wait actually worthwhile. In System Shock 2, as an example of another game, I'm not sure how spending cyber-modules towards any of the exotic or heavy weapons besides the grenade launcher are better than just investing in standard weapons. They come too late, require otherwise fairly useless-seeming upgrades (higher research, except maybe for worm stuff), and just aren't that much better.

    One type of ranged weapon skill shouldn't necessarily be a better choice for the entire game, otherwise you're just LARPing if you know you're taking the suboptimal choice. Make them close enough in effectiveness throughout - viable that you don't get killed or eat up too many stimpaks - and why again even bother having the difference (or head into FPS territory by just making them ammo and not skill constrained)?
     
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  12. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    Codex 2012
    Energy weapons and Big Guns are basically secondary ranged skills dependent on exotic/military grade weapons. Small guns is the main ranged skill as small guns are most prevalent among population.
    It would be silly if energy weapons and big guns would be equally viable as small guns.
     
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  13. Dr.Faust Liturgist

    Dr.Faust
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    I disagree. Part of the appeal in RPGs for me is the struggle to make do with the build of my choosing. I might make a wandering doctor with an interest in energy weapons and try to survive with that. It's not about minmaxing the best possible combat build. That kind of mindset is more suited to pure action games. The whole business of having to balance character builds just reeks of MMOfication.

    I'll use mage and warrior archtypes in fantasy as an example. If any idiot with a gym and some free time can get as powerful as a person who can bend the laws of reality then why the hell do mages even bother? Magic should be overpowered when compared to a guy a with a big sword and some armor. Just keep it interesting by making the road to becoming a good spellcaster a long and arduous one, preferably with a twist that causes a high lethality rate.

    I'd also like to remind that envisioning your character and giving him some sort of a personality and then choosing actions based on that has nothing to do with larping. Larping is doing actions in game that have absolutely no effect on the gameplay and is generally fucking silly. For example eating regularly in morrowind or taking a shit every ingame day.

    But yeah, well, that's just like my opinion, man.
     
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  14. Antihero Educated

    Antihero
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    Nothing wrong with having a type of character in mind - if none of that mattered, we'd all be happy playing some generic spreadsheet simulator. LARPing just seems to get used more freely around here and in a looser sense.

    I'm afraid that's not going to save your rug.
     
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  15. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. sgc_meltdown Arcane

    sgc_meltdown
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    u mad, humie?
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Sduibek Creator of Fallout Fixt Patron

    Sduibek
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    First access to energy weapon should be at Necropolis, unless you're playing the game all weird. (Plasma Pistol in the sewers)
     
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  18. Jick Magger Arcane Patron

    Jick Magger
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria
    I got lucky and stumbled on the crashed UFO special encounter.

    That Alien Blaster carried me to the end-game.
     
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  19. Gurkog Erudite

    Gurkog
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    :necro:
     
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  20. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
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  21. dunno lah Arcane

    dunno lah
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    Such a shame that laser weapons are largely useless in FO. Coz I like mah laz0rs...
    Fucking 80% laser DR on power armor is fucking bullshit. They should've increased DT and decreased DR for the armors.
     
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  22. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    I forgot how retarded Mastermind can get.
     
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  23. Commissar Draco Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar Patron

    Commissar Draco
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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Lazors are low tech weapons good for fighting stick armed savages; the beam can easily deflected and unfocused. You want good energy weapons use Plasma or this weapons based on Alien Technology. Of course nothin will beat That Pistol or sniper riffle HMG like Bozaar. I made entire playthrough in FNV using only This Machine and The Light shone through Darkness. Fifties rules. :thumbsup:
     
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  24. Pope Amole II Prestigious Gentleman Nerd Commando Game Studios Developer

    Pope Amole II
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    Actually, gatling laser is serviceable enough with sniper & better criticals combo - you simply ignore those high resistances and 200-400 damage per burst (and that's even without counting in the chance to get damage multiplier of up to 3.0) is enough to kill pretty much anyone. Just get that weapon skill to somewhere about 180 so your full burst hits, not just half of it.
     
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  25. dunno lah Arcane

    dunno lah
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    180?? o_O

    In all my playthroughs (two only), I've never raised any skill above 160 lol.
     
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