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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

V_K

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The way I see it, the complaints are just stupidly worded. The legal issue here is not the change of platform, but rather the refusal of refunds.
 

Silentstorm

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Valve is allowing it because, well, they don't own all the developers, they are allowed to say anything they want and then do anything they want, if they sell Steam keys and say the game is going on Steam before becoming Epic exclusive?

Well, it's bad PR, but for the other guys, not Valve, they aren't stopping people from going to Epic because they are, in a way, giving everyone more freedom than Epic, they don't want any exclusive, the bad PR goes for everyone else, and the games will eventually come to Steam anyways.
 

Dexter

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"Watching Valve let", "Valve is allowing".

How is Valve even involved here? The game isn't even on their platform yet. The parties here are YS Net (developer), Deep Silver (publisher) and possibly KickStarter as store/platform facilitating this and the customers. What they're doing (promising one thing, then changing the deal without any form of redress) is pretty much illegal in most of the Western world. Backers need to man up, file official complaints with the respective agencies in the US/EU/Australia etc. and possibly file a Class Action/get a law firm to do it on their behalf.
 

cosmicray

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Lower percentage FROM WHAT? It's crowdfunded game. People already "bought" it for full price and more on kickstarter. Without steam cut.
I don't like how backing a game became synonymous to "pre-ordering". It never should have been. On the other hand, I would prefer developers giving projects for free. The initial asking price would have been bigger, but at least it would be seen as a proper patronage rather than a several years long pre-order.

But either way, why the fuck is it that hard for them to simply offer steam keys to all backers? If the game was already "bought", why Epic gives a shit if backers got their game via Steam?
 

Cromwell

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If the game was already "bought", why Epic gives a shit if backers got their game via Steam?

because its not about money but user numbers. If I back on KS and then they bait and switch it and I end up on the Epic store its one more "sale" on epic, regardless if I didnt even want it on epic.
 

Ismaul

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Steam is not about to remove the ability for devs to put up a page before a game is released. That'd be bad for the store.

They can't say, "if you're going to go with an Epic exclusive, you can't put a page up", Steam can't know in advance and enforce it. They also can't close pages when the exclusive is announced, because that would hurt their community waiting for the game on Steam, and hamper a future release on their platform.

The same can be said for forums. Sure, others use Steam to exploit advertising and outsource their community, but if Steam removes those features for the games that go exclusive after the page is up and the forums have activity, then it's Steam users getting shafted by Steam. Steam can't block Epic / devs from fucking users, but it would be really bad if Steam started to take action that hurt its own users directly. It is morally better to suffer harm / not act to prevent it than to commit it directly.

Anyways, for Steam, users coming to Steam for the Epic games ads or for their forums means those users are Steam users first. It's also free PR when Epic users must come to Steam for support. Plus, Steam has the moral high ground doing nothing.

I don't forsee at thing changing in how Steam deals with this.
 
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Infinitron

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Yep: https://www.pcgamer.com/quite-a-few...e-surprisingly-coming-to-the-microsoft-store/

Quite a few Epic Store 'exclusives' are surprisingly coming to the Microsoft Store
Exclusive may mostly mean 'not on Steam.'

jd4HjWC2qbqEJMsU3FHGaK-320-80.jpg

Buried in the deluge of E3 news this week was a story that caught my eye: Metro Exodus is available to buy on the Microsoft Store. Wait—the same Metro Exodus that became an Epic Store exclusive earlier this year, shortly before it was released?

Metro Exodus isn't alone. There are actually quite a few Epic exclusives either already on the Microsoft Store or coming to the store in the future. "Exclusive" may have less to do with only being available through Epic's launcher, and more to do with not being available on Steam, obviously Epic's biggest competitor.

Currently, Metro Exodus and Operencia: The Stolen Sun are available to buy from the Microsoft Store (Operencia's actually been there since April), and both are available in the Xbox Game Pass for PC. And their exclusivity windows definitely haven't run out: Operencia actually has a Steam page, with a release date of 2020 listed. You can also pre-order The Outer Worlds.

Another Epic exclusive, Afterparty, is coming to Xbox Game Pass for PC, and Julian Gollop's Phoenix Point will be available for both the Microsoft Store and Game Pass in September. If these other games are an indication, I'm guessing Afterparty will be on the MS Store proper, too.

Finding these games is a bit confusing. I first looked for them in the new Xbox beta app, which serves as an interface for Game Pass and also a new, game-focused skin for the Microsoft Store. It's the same store underneath, but without all the random apps and movies and stuff mixed in. But when I searched for Metro Exodus, it at first insisted I had to have the Xbox Game Pass to buy it. Later, that button mysteriously changed to a simple "Buy."

These games may only be on the Microsoft Store because they're a part of Game Pass, but the fact remains you can buy them separately. It's an alternative to purchasing them from the Epic Store—though maybe not a great one, as reviews on Metro Exodus point to some crashing issues. Microsoft recently said it's opening up its Windows store to support Win32 games, rather than just UWP. But both Operencia and Metro are UWP games.

Another possible explanation is that Epic simply doesn't consider the Microsoft Store much competition, and considering it's reviled as much or more than Epic's launcher, that's probably fair. But it just goes to show that in the 2019 PC store wars, nothing is staying the same for very long.
 

Ismaul

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It'd be funny if Epic allowing their exclusives to be on the Microsoft Store just made MS a bigger player, rather than boost Epic.
 

Hobo Elf

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Steam is not about to remove the ability for devs to put up a page before a game is released. That'd be bad for the store.

They can't say, "if you're going to go with an Epic exclusive, you can't put a page up", Steam can't know in advance and enforce it. They also can't close pages when the exclusive is announced, because that would hurt their community waiting for the game on Steam, and hamper a future release on their platform.

The same can be said for forums. Sure, others use Steam to exploit advertising and outsource their community, but if Steam removes those features for the games that go exclusive after the page is up and the forums have activity, then it's Steam users getting shafted by Steam. Steam can't block Epic / devs from fucking users, but it would be really bad if Steam started to take action that hurt its own users directly. It is morally better to suffer harm / not act to prevent it than to commit it directly.

Anyways, for Steam, users coming to Steam for the Epic games ads or for their forums means those users are Steam users first. It's also free PR when Epic users must come to Steam for support. Plus, Steam has the moral high ground doing nothing.

I don't forsee at thing changing in how Steam deals with this.

No real store is going to allow someone to advertise, for free, a product in their facility without the intention of selling it there, or at the very least make it a timed exclusive. It's asinine to think that this is acceptable. In Shenmue's case it's less of a problem since iirc it didn't have a set date (if it did then that's bad), but this still sets a poor precedent for Steam.
 

Ismaul

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this still sets a poor precedent for Steam
It'd set a way worse precedent for Steam if they went on the offensive and started taking down pages that their users use.

Steam's reaction to Epic's tactics can in no way harm their users, otherwise they'd be just like Epic, but worse in the eyes of some vocal people, being in the "dominant oppressor" position.
 

Hobo Elf

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this still sets a poor precedent for Steam
It'd set a way worse precedent for Steam if it went on the offensive and started taking down pages that their users use.

Steam's reaction to Epic's tactics can in no way harm their users, otherwise they'd be just like Epic, but worse in the eyes of some vocal people, being in the "dominant oppressor" position.
No one is suggesting that they need to take down their store pages.
 

Azalin

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They can easily fix this problem with a tweak,let's say tell developers that forums can be opened 6 months before the steam release date
 

V_K

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The interesting thing is is whether the Epic exclusives' availability on MS store provides enough evidence that "Epic exclusivity = no Steam" is there by intent that it'd open up an opportunity for an anti-trust lawsuit.
 

Infinitron

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Looks like it's a new trend in Epic exclusivity - Early Access on Epic, final release on Steam: https://braceyourselfgames.com/2019...unch-as-early-access-on-the-epic-games-store/

PHANTOM BRIGADE TO LAUNCH AS EARLY ACCESS ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE

Today we’re announcing that our upcoming title Phantom Brigade will launch as Early Access first on the Epic Games Store.

As with our previous announcement for Industries of Titan, Phantom Brigade will be on the Epic Store for one year as Early Access. After that, we’ll launch a full 1.0 release on both the Epic Games Store and Steam.

Launching this way with two stages gives us the opportunity to spend more time perfecting the details of the game, and making sure that we can do the full launch with the strongest product possible. We really love how Phantom Brigade is looking right now, and we can’t wait to show you more in the coming months. And if you’re excited to see it, don’t worry! We’ll have a new game play video for you in the coming days.

Keep an eye on the Brace Yourself Games & Phantom Brigade Twitter accounts for more updates and release info in the future!
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

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Looking at Phantom Brigade discord the lead developer seems to think Epic's "bribes" as funding that comes with relatively few strings attached.
Chad JenkinsLast Monday at 10:55 PM
I wouldn't say you gain nothing from it. There's plenty of games that simply wouldn't be financially viable, or made without EGS backing them.
Chad JenkinsLast Monday at 10:56 PM
The other thing, is that a lot of publishing deals have some really serious restrictions, you don't get money for "free". They tend to want some control of the project to protect their investment.
Chad JenkinsLast Monday at 10:57 PM
In this case, they're not exerting any control over the project. Or making any demands on it.
Chad JenkinsYesterday at 9:00 PM
The big difference here, is that Epic is giving a deal that's much closer to the margins and what you could optimally get if you self published.
Other storefronts are very much take it or leave it. You've got no real room to negotiate unless you're someone like EA.
Then if you go into things like traditional publishing, they exert control over your project. They'll dictate things to you for example, and maybe even make you ship before you're ready.
Chad JenkinsYesterday at 9:11 PM
Anywho, the main point here, is they compete where the competitor is weakest. Until they can get a foothold
They're using their Fortnite windfall to give developers an amazing deal
Be on our store exclusively for a year, is all their asking.
Chad JenkinsYesterday at 9:13 PM
Then there's guarantees, payback, and high cuts
This stuff happens behind the scenes all the time, it's just well, public with EGS.
I hope that storefronts will start competing on quality, content and how well they treat developers. If you're not happy with their business practices, by all means tell them, don't use their store. Let them know they need to compete on that axis too to get your business.
They won't be able to throw money at folks forever
 

Silentstorm

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Great. Early access with zero infrastructure in place for the players to report bugs. Genius!

It'll be hilarious if the developers outright tell them to just use the Steam forums.
Oh God, i hope this happens, and this reminds me that i should check the road map to see if Epic is planning to make forums for games or not, i mean, they already said they won't allow for reviews which is another great way of warning people if an Early Acess game is really bad, but i am now curious if they will go as far as not having forums as well.

And my God, i can't remember the last time that Valve was anything close to the good guy in terms of digital stores, GOG and Humble Bundle were always the good boys, now Epic is basically the real bad boy trying to sell games from a van while Valve is the kid that we disliked but later found out that, while still a bit of an asshole, is not as bad as we thought.
 

Drakron

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Oh it always come with few strings attached at first.

But think what would happen if EGS replaced Steam as the highest selling digital store, would they remain the same few strings attached? EGS needs those titles to shore up their profolio and this is a relation of power, they have to offer a better deal that other storefronts for the sake of a exclusive but the moment they stop needing having exclusives the situation changes and at that time those deals would cease because they arent profitable for Epic that only does then out of specific need.

Also other storefronts know that are a storefront and in the end its not the supplier that matters, its the customer because he is the one that buys things from the store to begin with, its a strange world were the seller demands the buyer to court then as if they are the ones that matter most on the transaction ... no, its a question of power and the buyer will only court the seller if they really want what the seller is offering and that is rarely the case.

I suppose in the Age of Entitlement (and Lack of Mirrors) that, that they are are offering goods or services and they arent entitled to clients, they actually have to work for then ... and this behavior is seen with "indies" that have a incredible inflated ego as someone their game should by the simple fact it was done by then already selling 10 million copies, doesnt work that way.

This is not a jab at all small studios and there are certain people that worked their butt off for their game but there are people that look at EGS and think "thats how I should always be treated" forgetting Epic is only doing that because somehow they believe that Walking Simulator 2020 that would sell maybe 10k copies on Steam would bring said 10k customers to the EGS and the moment they dont need Walking Simulator 2022 to bring 10k customers they will soon find about Epic curating system.
 

GrainWetski

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strange how "people" on twitter saying shit like "STEAM SHOULD LOWER THEIR PERCENTAGE" never mention Xbox or Sony, which has the same percentage.
The retards think selling overpriced and underpowered hardware means they "deserve" their cut.

Same thinking that makes the same trash fine with paying monthly to use their own internet for multiplayer. They think unreliable, awful, simplistic features are worth the money for some godforsaken reason.
 

Silentstorm

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Easy, Steam is the one big store and thus Valve must have all the money in the world and can easily lower their percentage, it's not as if that would require big changes and lots of talks inside the company.

Look, i bet they could lower their percentage somewhat, but i honestly don't know, i don't call myself an expert on financial situations, but yeah, Steam aren't the only guys with that kind of percentage, others do it as well.
 

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