Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

[Strange Fellow]

That's all well and good, but doesn't apply to Epic at all. Cross-platform play? Get outta here.

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/epic-2019-cross-platform-online-services-roadmap

You seem to have misunderstood me. I know what cross-platform play is, and that Epic are doing it.

 

[cvv]

That's all well and good, but doesn't apply to Epic at all. Cross-platform play? Get outta here.

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/epic-2019-cross-platform-online-services-roadmap

You seem to have misunderstood me. I know what cross-platform play is, and that Epic are doing it.

Soo...why do I have to get outta here?

 

[Strange Fellow]

That's all well and good, but doesn't apply to Epic at all. Cross-platform play? Get outta here.

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/epic-2019-cross-platform-online-services-roadmap

You seem to have misunderstood me. I know what cross-platform play is, and that Epic are doing it.

Soo...why do I have to get outta here?

Because it's not something I want.

 

[Perkel]

Because it's not something I want.

lol. You do realize how dumb this sounds ?
You don't want for players to play across Steam/Epic/GOG etc regardless which launcher they chose ?

 

[cvv]

Because it's not something I want.

lol. You do realize how dumb this sounds ?
You don't want for players to play across Steam/Epic/GOG etc regardless which launcher they chose ?

It's actually across ALL the platforms - PC, Mac, iOS, Android, PlayStation, Xbox, Switch.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I see. I thought this was only about platforms, not storefronts as well. Never mind, then.

 

[JarlFrank]

This conversation is becoming stale. People are repeating themselves.

Hypothetical question: If Epic's Store went DRM-free like GOG, would any of you change your mind about it or prefer it to Steam? Is it enough of a feature to change your preferred platform?

It would add a level of consumer friendliness to the Epic Store that is sorely missing from it, and would have me show more goodwill towards them, yes. That is, if DRM-free truly means I get to download an independent insaller that I can put on my HDD and keep forever.

 

[cvv]

It would add a level of consumer friendliness to the Epic Store that is sorely missing from it, and would have me show more goodwill towards them, yes. That is, if DRM-free truly means I get to download an independent insaller that I can put on my HDD and keep forever.

DRM-free means you're not limited in any way once you buy and download the game. Epic offers this option, just like Steam does. Once you buy and download Ashen for example you can play it without any limitation, without the launcher even. You can back it up and unpack again in any way you want. Developers can choose to do this with their games on the EGS.

 

[JarlFrank]

this is another "gamer moral panic", just like Denuvo

Except Denuvo is utter shit that impacts performance and is an intrusive form of DRM that shouldn't exist. Fuck Denuvo.

If Epic Store is "like Denuvo" then I hope it dies in a fire as soon as possible.

Luckily it's not even half as bad as Denuvo.

Defending draconian DRM... jeez.

 

[A_boring_GOG_bot]

https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/16/15622366/valve-gabe-newell-sales-origin-destructive

 

[Reinhardt]

Because it's not something I want.

lol. You do realize how dumb this sounds ?
You don't want for players to play across Steam/Epic/GOG etc regardless which launcher they chose ?

It's actually across ALL the platforms - PC, Mac, iOS, Android, PlayStation, Xbox, Switch.

Pity, you can buy game only from Epic, right?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Basically whenever a new company shows up on the scene and says "We're new, we're different, and we're going to change everything!", a segment of the gaming audience freaks out and declares them evil incarnate when they're usually just annoying. People are people I guess, it's something companies have to take into account.

Except they offer ABSOLUTELY NOTHING new & different to the player (except for no toxic forums and reviews). All they do is grab new releases to force players to join them. Hardly surprising why not everyone is excited about it.

 

[Perkel]

Hardly surprising why not everyone is excited about it.

Hardly anyone is excited for colonoscopy.
And yet you have to do it.

 

[Paul_cz]

Hardly anyone is excited for colonoscopy.
And yet you have to do it.

Not a completely accurate comparison. Yes using Epic store is like digital colonoscopy, but I definitely not have to use it, fortunately.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Don't forget that digital cut already went down from 30% to 10-15% across the stores...

It really didn't. The newcomers who own 1% of the market share announced that they're cutting their fee which is nice but nobody cares what fees one has to pay for access to 1% of the market. Until that changes it's pretty meaningless.

Steam itself already went from fixed 30% to dynamic 30-25-20% based on success.

For games that sell over a million copies or more, most likely to entice companies like Bethesda, EA, and MS to sell on Steam, not as response to Epic. This deal wouldn't even cover inXile, not to mention smaller studios.

Edit:

If Epic manages to carve a sizable chunk of the market with exclusive deals, why would it ever stop doing what worked so well and start worrying about features and refund policies?

Because Fornite money is not infinite.
They can fund games, guarantee sales because right now they sit on pot of gold.
But that pot of gold will eventually dry up.

First, if the exclusivity thing works, they will have enough cash to continue. Second, as I've explained in another thread, Epic risks very little by fronting millions in cash. They can easily give Gollop 10 mil upfront and get it back in 3-4 years (worst case scenario) or the very first year if the game does reasonably well. If it sells 500k copies at $40 avg to account for regional pricing, it will generate 20 mil, more than enough to repay Epic. If it tanks and sells only 100k in the first year, then Epic would have to wait 2-3 years to get the money back, which isn't big deal either.

That's what makes it so easy for Steam and GOG to start grabbing new releases too. There's very little risk there.

 

[Infinitron]

Except they offer ABSOLUTELY NOTHING new & different to the player (except for no toxic forums and reviews). All they do is grab new releases to force players to join them. Hardly surprising why not everyone is excited about it.

My point is that "excitement" in either direction seems unwarranted.

Julian Gollop says we'll have download his crowdfunded game from THIS website and not THAT website. OK. May that be the game's biggest problem.

 

[Perkel]

Don't forget that digital cut already went down from 30% to 10-15% across the stores...

It really didn't. The newcomers who own 1% of the market share announced that they're cutting their fee which is nice but nobody cares what fees one has to pay for access to 1% of the market. Until that changes it's pretty meaningless.

Steam itself already went from fixed 30% to dynamic 30-25-20% based on success.

For games that sell over a million copies or more, most likely to entice companies like Bethesda, EA, and MS to sell on Steam, not as response to Epic. This deal wouldn't even cover inXile, not to mention smaller studios.

Are you trying to say that stores doing those changes exactly the moment Epic did it while at the same time weeks sometimes days before talking about being happy with 30% has nothing to do with Epic doing that ?
Doesn't get past by Ocam razor mate. It is painfully obvious that this was change due to what Epic did.

Also let us not forget that similar thing happened in game engines world just short few years back when Epic not only gave full access to their source + slashed royalties across the board and soon withing a year all other engines slashed those prices and gave more or less better access to their engine sources.

Steam didn't go for 10% or whatever because they are still in dominant position. They test market to see if other will drop prices as well or not. But they did budge.

Some other shops as you said also did change it but they are not key players. No one outside of Steam is key player.

At some point you will get to calculation that 30% x 100 is less than 10% x 100 000.

 

[Reinhardt]

Julian Gollop says

He lied more than once already so who cares what he says.

 

[MuscleSpark]

"gamer moral panic", just like Denuvo

Morality is a spook. My "panic" with Denuvo is nothing to do with morals, it's entirely to do with practicality. Game development is hard enough as it is, and having to deal with DRM, virtualization layers and online server checks (which can fail at any time) just compounds the problem and makes it more inconvenient for me. If the game runs worse, sometimes awfully so, because something unnecessary to me wasn't "implemented properly" then it's not something I want in the first place.

Like JarlFrank said, fuck Denuvo.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Except they offer ABSOLUTELY NOTHING new & different to the player (except for no toxic forums and reviews). All they do is grab new releases to force players to join them. Hardly surprising why not everyone is excited about it.

My point is that "excitement" in either direction seems unwarranted.

Julian Gollop says we'll have download his crowdfunded game from THIS website and not THAT website. OK. May that be the game's biggest problem.

It might be if most players decide to wait a year instead. While Gollop will still get Epic's minimum sales guarantee money, a minimum sales guarantee and a successful NEW release on Steam are two very different things. Releasing the game on Steam a year later might not get the same response.

 

[cvv]

Don't forget that digital cut already went down from 30% to 10-15% across the stores...

It really didn't. The newcomers who own 1% of the market share announced that they're cutting their fee which is nice but nobody cares what fees one has to pay for access to 1% of the market. Until that changes it's pretty meaningless.

Steam itself already went from fixed 30% to dynamic 30-25-20% based on success.

For games that sell over a million copies or more, most likely to entice companies like Bethesda, EA, and MS to sell on Steam, not as response to Epic. This deal wouldn't even cover inXile, not to mention smaller studios.

Are you trying to say that stores doing those changes exactly the moment Epic did it while at the same time weeks sometimes days before talking about being happy with 30% has nothing to do with Epic doing that ?

Nah, that one really was due to AAA publishers pulling back from Steam, at least that's likely the main reason.

 

[cvv]

Except they offer ABSOLUTELY NOTHING new & different to the player

Yes, they should've hit the ground running with all the standard features, not add them in the course of this year.

That said our point is the very existence of competition is great, will produce benefits that wouldn't exist on a near-monopoly market and the exclusive BS is hardly something anyone likes but it's a small price to pay, seeing as launchers, unlike consoles, are free. It's not a hard point to see but somehow people are so emotional about this shit they keep missing it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Don't forget that digital cut already went down from 30% to 10-15% across the stores...

It really didn't. The newcomers who own 1% of the market share announced that they're cutting their fee which is nice but nobody cares what fees one has to pay for access to 1% of the market. Until that changes it's pretty meaningless.

Steam itself already went from fixed 30% to dynamic 30-25-20% based on success.

For games that sell over a million copies or more, most likely to entice companies like Bethesda, EA, and MS to sell on Steam, not as response to Epic. This deal wouldn't even cover inXile, not to mention smaller studios.

Are you trying to say that stores doing those changes exactly the moment Epic did it while at the same time weeks sometimes days before talking about being happy with 30% has nothing to do with Epic doing that ?

These things were a long time coming. EA left, Activision left, and finally Bethesda left (selling Fallout 76 on their own and expressing doubt (aka a veiled message) whether or not they'd sell their future titles on Steam. Steam is losing hundreds of millions by not selling the AAA titles which is a much bigger problem for them than Gollop's little game.

The fact that Steam didn't do it for everyone else (games that sell under a million copies) tells you that Steam still dominates that market and isn't worried about competition.

Also let us not forget that similar thing happened in game engines world just short few years back when Epic not only gave full access to their source + slashed royalties across the board and soon withing a year all other engines slashed those prices and gave more or less better access to their engine sources.

If memory serves me right, it was the other way around. Unity started gaining popularity like crazy, which threatened Unreal and forced them to cut the rates to make it more accessible.

There's no argument that IF Epic becomes a successful store, it WILL force Steam to cut the rates for everyone else not just the AAA boys. It will be a good thing and everyone will benefit from it. The problem is that Epic went a very retarded way about it and the original manifesto underlines the cluelessness:

This led to a slew of valuable insights that Galyonkin says directly informed the Epic store’s feature set. For instance, forums and other social media-like tools—a cornerstone of Steam—won’t be part of the package. Galyonkin said that this is because “not a single developer I talked to wanted forums” and “the toxicity it brings,” preferring to interact with communities on their own terms on platforms like Reddit and Discord instead.​

Hmm... what could possibly go wrong...

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-games-store-users-have-been-turning-to-steam-for-subnautica-support/

Epic Games Store users have been turning to Steam for Subnautica support
With no forums, they're heading back to Steam for help.

 

[Don Peste]

Epic Humble Bundle when?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Except they offer ABSOLUTELY NOTHING new & different to the player

Yes, they should've hit the ground running with all the standard features, not add them in the course of this year.

That said our point is the very existence of competition is great, will produce benefits that wouldn't exist on a near-monopoly market and the exclusive BS is hardly something anyone likes but it's a small price to pay, seeing as launchers, unlike consoles, are free.

I don't recall anyone saying that competition isn't great or that it doesn't produce benefits. My point is that so far Epic approached it the wrong way that shows lack of understanding of the market. The problem isn't that they didn't add the forums and reviews right away. The problem is that they were convinced these things weren't necessary because developers bitched about them. It shows the lack of vision and strategy. If all they can do (at best) is to copy Steam's features that players have become accustomed to, instead of thinking of features Steam doesn't have yet to lure in new players, then nothing good will come out of it.

I know you don't like Steam and want more competition which is fine, but you can't tell me with a straight face that you read all that bullshit about toxic forums and think: