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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

cvv

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I don't recall anyone saying that competition isn't great or that it doesn't produce benefits. My point is that so far Epic approached it the wrong way that shows lack of understanding of the market. The problem isn't that they didn't add the forums and reviews right away. The problem is that they were convinced these things weren't necessary because developers bitched about them. It shows the lack of vision and strategy.

I do agree with all that. I said that from day one, at least since the Metro deal blew up. The entire Epic enterprise seems incredibly half-assed, undercooked and poorly thought out. Looks like a sudden fit of panic more than anything else.

That said VAST majority of anti-Epic Codexers seems to resent not the execution but the very fact that competition comes with a price (a tiny one in this case). I thought you were one of those.
 

Perkel

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I don't recall anyone saying that competition isn't great or that it doesn't produce benefits. My point is that so far Epic approached it the wrong way that shows lack of understanding of the market.

Nah i think they perfectly know the market here.

1. People don't give a shit about grandstanding when their $ is on the line or their favorite game.
2. Only way to get hard into market and carve away decent amount of chunk from Steam is to do what exactly they are doing.
3. They perfectly know that all naysayers today have short memory and they won't give a flying fun in a year time when they will have most of features which they stated on trello.

Steam is best example of that. Velve forced everyone on their 56k modem to install piece of shit DRM called Steam for Half Life 2 that barely fucking worked and you couldn't even play it offline at the time which was major pain in ass.

Because they knew "gamers" are grandstanding from no value position.

Not a completely accurate comparison. Yes using Epic store is like digital colonoscopy, but I definitely not have to use it, fortunately.

I don't see how it is not accurate. Health is overall competition on PC digital store market. What Epic is doing is colonoscopy.

And there are a lot of butthurt people.
 

cosmicray

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When EA came up with Origin suddenly consumers realized refunds of digitally distributed PC games are possible (after Valve fighting this policy for years in the EU). Just 2 months into Epic existence the idea of cross-platform play surfaced as something actually in the cards. And recently it's been leaked Valve could start offering dedicated servers for 3rd party games.
What are you talking about? Rocket League has cross-platform play as probably some other games. What Epic has to do with it?
What would be really cool is cross-store friends/social communities. But probably no one interested in that. If Epic is gonna do that, then good for them.

DRM-free means you're not limited in any way once you buy and download the game. Epic offers this option, just like Steam does.
No, they don't. To (re)install the game you need their client/account and online connection. DRM-free doesn't require shit. You get the installer(physical or digital) and install the game on your own terms.
 

JarlFrank

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DRM-free means you're not limited in any way once you buy and download the game. Epic offers this option, just like Steam does.
No, they don't. To (re)install the game you need their client/account and online connection. DRM-free doesn't require shit. You get the installer(physical or digital) and install the game on your own terms.

Exactly. Launcher-independent installer, can be installed offline, played offline, ported to any computer you own by simply moving the installer from one hard disk to another, can be stored forever on an external HDD or cloud storage so even if the storefront ever goes down the game will still be installable and will work without any issues.

GoG is the only store that does this.
 

Night Goat

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Competition is supposed to mean more choices for the consumers. And I'm choosing to continue using the service that has features I like and (probably) isn't a Chinese botnet. Do Epicfags really think they can get people to use a service that offers nothing but negatives in comparison to its competitor, just because it's "competition"?
 

Zboj Lamignat

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Can we stop with this "competition is always good for the client" anyway? First of all, repeating kindergarten-level truisms doesn't make anyone look smart and there are plenty of scenarios where it doesn't work like that. But the main point is: being 100% open is one of PCs biggest advantages. It is something that PCs always had and other platforms for pleb didn't.

Anyone who wants to deny you this advantage is an enemy.

Anyone who doesn't immediately understand it is a dumbfuck.

There is a lot of stuff that making precedence for porting console subhumanity to PC can bring. And none of it is pretty.
 

Paul_cz

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Did anyone here actually buy anything on epic fail store yet? I find it strange that they have yet to brag about any sales numbers.

Like, to me it seems that the general attitude of PC gamers towards epic is extremely negative (reddit, retardera, gaf..).
When Epic makes a game exclusive, gamer has four choices:

- buy it on epic store and pay money for shitty service (and supporting exclusivity bullshit)
- torrent it and get also shitty service, for free
- wait until exclusivity ends and get it on GOG or Steam or developer's website
- ignore the game entirely

I really wonder how many people are going to pick option one. I know I won't.

And yes yes I know you will say "silent majority is not posting on forums" and we vocal gamers are tiny minority.
Well Mr. Galyonkin has few words about that:

https://galyonk.in/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae

And here is the interesting thing — there is a market and audience for smaller games, otherwise Steam wouldn’t exist. Many people are trying many new games. They don’t spend hundreds of hours in one title, they’re, you know, your average gamers, you used to hear about a lot.

But there is a catch:

There aren’t many of them.
Classic “core gamers” — the ones that play most major hits or jump from indie game to indie game — are relatively rare when compared to overall gaming audience.

In fact, 1% of Steam gamers own 33% of all copies of games on Steam. 20% of Steam gamers own 88% of games. That’s even more than Pareto principle suggests.

So, to be a member of the “1% group” of Steam gamers you have to own 107 games or more. That’s not much considering how Steam is selling games at discount prices and how easy it is to obtain games in bundles.

We’re talking about 1.3M PC gamers that could fall into definition of “core gamer that buys several games per year”. And that’s including discounted games as well.

Of course we could extend it to, I don’t know, “softcore gamers” — the 20% that own 88% games. To be included you’d have to own 4 (FOUR) games or more on Steam — not exactly a huge number, right?

Let me repeat it once more, because it’s really important.

Various studies suggest that there are 700–800 million of PC gamers. It’s probably true, but it doesn’t mean much for your game. Because if you’re developing a downloadable game for Steam you’re not even fighting for 135M of its active users,

you’re fighting for the attention of 1.3 million gamers
that are actually buying lots of games.
The 1% group.
 

Metro

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I do agree with all that. I said that from day one, at least since the Metro deal blew up. The entire Epic enterprise seems incredibly half-assed, undercooked and poorly thought out. Looks like a sudden fit of panic more than anything else.

That said VAST majority of anti-Epic Codexers seems to resent not the execution but the very fact that competition comes with a price (a tiny one in this case). I thought you were one of those.

Except this is not competition. It's the exact opposite. As VD and others have expressed these developers could have listed the games on both Steam and Epic but offered a lower price via Epic. They don't. This is not about competition and all about developers pocketing more money for themselves. Give it a rest.
 

Kutulu

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I only care about competition that benefits me, a month ago i bought a car. At first i visted 2 dealerships that where close to each other (lets call them A) and got some offers. Visited both twice and it felt like those
2 didnt actually want to compete with each other 50€ vs some expensive pen (LOL) on a new car.... Drove to a third dealer (B) and got an offer, ofc both A's where willing to compete with him, in the end i stayed with B because i got the same price but he added a 400€ Gas/petrol card...

The thing is i would probably even stayed with B if i had to pay 100€ more there just because it seemed more friendly & A's unwillingness to compete.


In short: Theres more to things than just price and epic fails on all fronts price included, Metro is 10$ cheaper here in retail without being on sale for fucks sake...
 
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Belegarsson

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Not buying jack on Epic's store
Well, it's pretty easy considering that there is zero interesting games in their store.
For real though, I went from posting Metro Exodus trailers to pirating it, played for 2 hours then completely forgot about it.
Epic Store, best time and money saver since 2019 :positive:
 

Alienman

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https://www.thegamer.com/epic-boss-says-developers-win-game-store-wars-not-consumers/

Here is an interesting article.

Tim Sweeney, the founder of Epic Games, has declared that Epic Games will win the battle for best digital storefront based on its relationship with developers, not with customers. According to Sweeney, consumers already have the best experience they are going to have using those kinds of platforms, so having a better selection of games will be more important for drawing in new customers.

Sweeney's logic is that, since digital storefronts have been trying to appeal to consumers through the user experience for so long, there's very little left to improve in that area. Adding a few convenient features or making installation easier is no longer enough to displace customers from their current favorites, especially names as well-entrenched in the gaming industry as Valve and Steam.
 

Deleted Member 22431

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Steam attracts more players because it is a monopoly.

If players had to resort to different platforms to buy their PC games, their lives would be more complicated and the developers would sell less games.

Monopolies exist due to one reason, and one reason only: because they are more effective in providing better services than the competition.

The “monopolies are evil” butthurt is hilarious shit; typical communist propaganda that pretends to advocate consumers’ interests when it is actively directing their envy and resentment against the most successful service providers under false pretenses.

If you are against steam because it is the most successful digital distribution platform ever developed, you are jealous resented cuck. The Besters and moraes of this world can take their resented anti-market and anti-consumer’s interests rhetoric and shove it. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters are efficient service providers.
 
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normie

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muh efficiency
monopolies are good when they are good and bad when they're bad, it depends on the realm it's monopolising, who is in charge of it and in whose interest it's run; putting the philosophy before the ends and results is putting the cart before the horse

you're the other side of the same butthurt coin
 
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Deleted Member 22431

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monopolies are good when they are good and bad when they're bad, it depends on the realm it's monopolising, who is in charge of it and in whose interest it's run; putting the philosophy before the ends and results is putting the horse before the cart

you're the other side of the same butthurt coin
If a monopoly is the result of the forces of the market and consumers’ choice, it’s good.

If a monopoly results from government favors, protectionism or other kind of unnatural interference, it is bad.

Steam is not the result of unnatural interference, so it's good.

EDIT: I didn't take you for a communist puppet, Infinitron.
 

normie

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If a monopoly results from government favors, protectionism or other kind of unnatural interference, it is bad.
Depends. Specifically, it if its better or worse for the people, does it increase or decrease the exploitation and predation of people, does it work to empower the constituents of that government or not, does it work to increase social capital and trust or does it disrupt it etc.

Governments can and do lean either way. Western democracies lean towards exploitation and the undermining of people in the interests of whomever can organise and grease the wheels with money, and ultimately banking interests, which have a blank check, while a country like China is united by an ethnoracial vision, thinks generationally, has designs beyond the current world order and applies controls as it sees fit to achieve its ends. Telling a Chinese person "monopoly bad bcuz unnatural" is the goofiest cope you could have.

Anyway, to what extent Steam is a monopoly, yeah, it's good, but not due the mechanics of how it arose, but because of its convenience, utility and relative lack of anti-consumerist practices.
 

Deleted Member 22431

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Depends. Specifically, it if its better or worse for the people
I don’t think is interesting to discuss what is better or worse for people in the political realm besides their own voluntary choices. Anything more complicated than that is subject to abuse and whims of a minority of illuminated individuals trying to dictate their own preferences on the rest of the population. This tend to result in misguided social policies, unforeseen negative consequences, public debt, tyranny, etc. If people prefer GoG, let them buy games on GoG. If the majority prefers Steam, let them buy games on Steam. Saying that Steam is evil because it is giving players what they want in a more efficient manner than the competition is an absurd inversion of values.

does it increase or decrease the exploitation and predation of people
I’m sorry, I don’t speak communist newspeak. People engage in voluntary economic transactions because they are better with them than without them. Is someone working on a merger pay being exploited by his employer? No, he isn’t. The resources are scarce and he is better with it than without it.

does it work to empower the constituents of that government or not, does it work to increase social capital and trust or does it disrupt it etc.
This varies according to the theory you choose. You can’t dictate policies that will affect economy based on this inherently controversial stuff.

Governments can and do lean either way. Western democracies lean towards exploitation and the undermining of people in the interests of whomever can organise and grease the wheels with money, and ultimately banking interests, which have a blank check, while a country like China is united by an ethnoracial vision, thinks generationally, has designs beyond the current world order and applies controls as it sees fit to achieve its ends. Telling a Chinese person "monopoly bad bcuz unnatural" is the goofiest cope you could have.
That’s irrelevant. The market is the most efficient way to give people what they want. Some companies are much more successful than others because they are more efficient in giving people what they want. No amount of theorisation about the government or the “Chinese person” will change that.

Anyway, to what extent Steam is a monopoly, yeah, it's good, but not due the mechanics of how it arose, but because of its convenience, utility and relative lack of anti-consumerist practices.
You got it all wrong. It is good precisely due to how it paved its way to success.
 

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