Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

[Vault Dweller]

But they took a deal that already secured funding of their next game! What a scammers, how dare they making money So, to summarise the last two pages:

In case that wasn't clear, they took money from their future sales. That's rarely a good business decision.

Allegedly, they got 2.2 mil which roughly corresponds to 50,000 copies at $40-50, which is nothing. In comparison XCOM2 sold 500,000 copies within the first week. It would be hardly unreasonable to expect PP to sell 500,000 copies in the first few months, which would have earned them 20+ mil in gross sales, 14+ mil net. That's what at stake here. They took 2 mil now to defer 14+ mil for a year.

Ideally, they'd sell well on Epic, make a few millions, iron out some bugs and flaws, release on Steam a year later and claim their 14 mil or more. That's your best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that the game breaks even on Epic, so Epic gets their money back but Gollop earns nothing or very little in the first year, which can cripple a studio. What's worse (potentially) is that the game would be heavily pirated (remember Arcanum? Sierra was sitting on it for 6 months doing localization while the game was on every warez site, which resulted in a very weak release), which would affect future sales as well. Not to mention the backlash and all.

Then there's a question of the release price. Selling on Steam at full price on release is one thing, at a discounted rate is another. Many players would expect 30-40% off for a year old game. It would probably land somewhere in between (best and worst case scenario) but I doubt that things would go as smoothly as Gollop expects or hopes for. His decision WILL cost him sales, one way or another. The only question is how much.

 

[JarlFrank]

Not that I care about the game, but it will be DRM free, Epic launcher will be required to download updates, but you can backup install folder of downloaded/updated game which you can run from exe bypassing the launcher.

If that's true that makes Epic less terrible than I thought, but still pretty bad compared to other stores.

With GoG, you get an installer that lets you install the game anywhere rather than having to install with a launcher and then just haphazardly copy the folder. It's better because it makes sure registry entires are correct and all that.
With Steam, some games also don't require the launcher so you can do it with a couple of games on Steam, too.

Which again proves my point that Epic is just Steam, except worse because less features and worse customer service.

 

[JarlFrank]

The worst case scenario is that the game breaks even on Epic, so Epic gets their money back but Gollop earns nothing or very little in the first year, which can cripple a studio.

Wait, is that how Epic's deal works? I thought the money Epic gave them was just no-questions-asked bribe money. No matter what happens, you get that money and keep it.

Then they get a number of guaranteed sales in addition to that, which means if during the exclusivity period the game sells below a certain number, Epic will pay for the gap between their guaranteed sales number and the actual sales number in addition to the bribe money given beforehand.

If there's no bribe money and it has all just been guaranteed sales money, then yeah, it's a terrible deal because it means the first 2 million or however much it was Epic gave to them in sales are gonna go to Epic.

I don't think that's how it works though because no sane developer would fall for a bribe with such conditions unless he believed his game was shit and wouldn't sell.

 

[Reinhardt]

unless he believed his game was shit and wouldn't sell.

 

[GrainWetski]

Why do you think they're scrambling to make it resemble FiraXCOM as much as possible? They have no faith whatsoever in the game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The worst case scenario is that the game breaks even on Epic, so Epic gets their money back but Gollop earns nothing or very little in the first year, which can cripple a studio.

Wait, is that how Epic's deal works? I thought the money Epic gave them was just no-questions-asked bribe money. No matter what happens, you get that money and keep it.

I don't think so. It's not a sustainable model whereas advancing developers millions against future sales, which does act as a min sales guarantee (i.e. no matter what happens Gollop has already sold 50,000 copies), is a good business model for Epic where they risk very little as there's no way PP sells less than 50k units in the first year.

I don't think that's how it works though because no sane developer would fall for a bribe with such conditions unless he believed his game was shit and wouldn't sell.

They would if:

- they needed 2 mil to finish the game
- they believed that they won't lose any sales and anyone who wants the game will just buy it on Epic which will cost them only 12%. Then it's a great deal.

 

[normie]

Why do you think they're scrambling to make it resemble FiraXCOM as much as possible? They have no faith whatsoever in the game.

I'm getting the sense that the talent he's working with is simply not capable of conjuring up something other than a shoulderpadded clone of firaxis' xcum; so it's not that they're scrambling to make it a certain way, but that they simply couldn't hack it at making it any different

the scrambling is to get it out the door

 

[passerby]

They would if:
- they needed 2 mil to finish the game
- they believed that they won't lose any sales and anyone who wants the game will just buy it on Epic which will cost them only 12%. Then it's a great deal.

For the record it's practically 7% revenue cut, since Unreal Engine license fee is free for sales on Epic Store vs 30% cut on Steam.

For a self employed guys, that work for free and share revenue like you at Iron Tower it just mean 23% smaller salary, sucks but not the end of the world.
From a perspective of someone who run it as a bussiness and have to pay in full all the bills, salaries and loans/investors first, it could very well be a difference between a moderate success and loosing serious money.

I agree that that this move will loose him money in the end, but if I was a developer I'd prefer to live in a world where the second point was actually true, because gamers care about your bottom line if the game is good, it is what it is though.
This Epic deal is a bit like an early access, influx of money on the last stretch of production, except better because you charge full price for these advance sales, or rather it would be if gamers didn't believed, you deserve punishment for it.

 

[fantadomat]

Fuck me sideways,just found out that those cucks from phoenix point are from the Bulgarian capital. The scum even offered refunds instead of running away with all the money,they bring dishonour to our scamming communities.

 

[Dexter]

I don't think so. It's not a sustainable model whereas advancing developers millions against future sales, which does act as a min sales guarantee (i.e. no matter what happens Gollop has already sold 50,000 copies), is a good business model for Epic where they risk very little as there's no way PP sells less than 50k units in the first year.

I'm pretty sure it's both an outright bribe and a guaranteed sales advance, both negotiated with the respective developers based on what they have to offer. People were saying that it's (obviously) "not suistainable" from very early on, and they afaik commented on not being able to do this forever themselves.

But as long as they've still got all that Fortnite money coming in...:

 

[Vault Dweller]

They would if:
- they needed 2 mil to finish the game
- they believed that they won't lose any sales and anyone who wants the game will just buy it on Epic which will cost them only 12%. Then it's a great deal.

For the record it's practically 7% revenue cut, since Unreal Engine license fee is free for sales on Epic Store vs 30% cut on Steam.

IF one can sell on Epic as much as one can sell on Steam, Epic's deal is obviously way better. The problem is, there's no fucking way these markets are the same.

I agree that that this move will loose him money in the end, but if I was a developer I'd prefer to live in a world where the second point was actually true, because gamers care about your bottom line if the game is good, it is what it is though.

If that were true, then selling direct from your own website would be the best deal ever (for the developers) and neither Steam nor Epic would be able to compete with that. We sold 0.6% (copies sold) direct. Steam dwarfed it in the first week because that's where the action is. The notion that you can lure gamers away from that market because you offer a better deal to the developers and making games exclusive for a year is stunningly absurd and out of touch with reality.

 

[Drakron]

For a self employed guys, that work for free and share revenue like you at Iron Tower it just mean 23% smaller salary, sucks but not the end of the world.
From a perspective of someone who run it as a bussiness and have to pay in full all the bills, salaries and loans/investors first, it could very well be a difference between a moderate success and loosing serious money.

The bigger problem is both projects from Snapshot Games been crowd funded, Phoenix Point have to make bank and it have to really make bank so he can get some publisher backing the next project because he eroded a lot of good will by this move, next time he goes asking for funds there will be people remind everyone that what Snapshot Games is doing is using then to get a deal with the real investors.

 

[passerby]

The notion that you can lure gamers away from that market because you offer a better deal to the developers and making games exclusive for a year is stunningly absurd and out of touch with reality.

I don't know, it worked for Origin and Blizzard. Epic have recognition and resources to create a simillar ecosystem in theory.
The timed instead of permanent exclusivity is what will make it fail for sure, people will just wait, permanent exclusives is the only thing could work, even if unlikely and would be one hell of a bet.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The notion that you can lure gamers away from that market because you offer a better deal to the developers and making games exclusive for a year is stunningly absurd and out of touch with reality.

I don't know, it worked for Origin and Blizzard. Epic have recognition and resources to create a simillar ecosystem in theory.

EA and Blizzard had decades long following. Blizzard even has annual Blizcons for its devoted worshipers. Giving them a place to buy and play Blizzard games was a no-brainer, not to mention that battle.net is older than Steam. Plus the fans are eager to support Blizzard as it's the maker of their beloved games and popular hits like 'do you guys not have phones?', not just a store owner.

 

[Ismaul]

Steam is getting clever. Unless I've been blind for a while, they've just introduced a Changelog button on the Friends list. Might be to show that they're constantly working on features while Epic has fuckall.

 

[abija]

EA and Blizzard had decades long following. Blizzard even has annual Blizcons for its devoted worshipers. Giving them a place to buy and play Blizzard games was a no-brainer, not to mention that battle.net is older than Steam. Plus the fans are eager to support Blizzard as it's the maker of their beloved games and popular hits like 'do you guys not have phones?', not just a store owner.

And they still had to use dirty tricks like having proper autologin just from the launcher to make people adopt it.

 

[Irata]

https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1121218551342350336

Tencent Epic says that if Valve matches its 12% cut and some other conditions then it will stop buying exclusives.

If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam.

The key “no major strings attached” points are: games can use any online systems like friends and accounts they choose, games are free to interoperate across platforms and stores, the store doesn’t tax revenue on other stores or platforms (e.g. if you play Fortnite on iOS+PC)...

More “no major strings attached”: if you play the game on multiple platforms, stuff you’ve bought can be available everywhere; no onerous certification requirements. Essentially, the spirit of an open platform where the store is just a place to find games and pay for stuff.

That’s a loaded question! But Epic will stay the course. 30% store dominance is the #1 problem for PC developers, publishers, and everyone who relies on those businesses for their livelihood. We’re determined to fix it and this is the one approach that will effect major change.

 

[Mustawd]

30% store dominance is the #1 problem for PC developers

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

first world problem indeed.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

"If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam."

Epic only beats me because they love me, fuck you Gaben you bastard why do you let this continue? All you have to do is do everything they ask of you! I always knew Gaben was the one behind this all along.

 

[Reinhardt]

Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam.

They have other games besides fortnite?
Gaben, please, don't lower your cut. You have enough shit in your store already.

 

[passerby]

If that were true, then selling direct from your own website would be the best deal ever (for the developers) and neither Steam nor Epic would be able to compete with that[...]

Nice strawman, most people don't want DRM free archive file, they want convenience of a store platform with more than one title on it, selling early access on your website, with no promotion, with awful BMTmicro service is not comparable at all.
You wouldn't be able to replicate what Epic Store provides with your own store at 7% revenue (you are on Unreal Engine), they probably run it non profit currently.

Steam had resistance, then there was Uplay, Origin, most MMOs have it's own platforms, adopting one more is much less of a treshold.
There are free games every two weeks, if Epic got an exclusive of Metro, or Borderlands 3 callibre every few months and few smaller ones in between and they were permanent and such state continued long enough, most gamers would end up having an account there.
Maybe they wouldn't visist it daily like Steam, but would check it lets say monthly, but discovery rate for each visit there could be an order of magnitude higher than on Steam. Keep in mind 90% of steam accounts are fake, or abandoned, not active customers.
Worked for EA with Origin, would work much better in this hypothetical scenario, with much wider selection of exclusives. End game would be a lower cut for the whole industry, everyone could release their exclusives on Steam, once it'd got pressured into lowering the cut.

But since customer is your master and you won't even dare to question them in a forum discussion, and embrace current ecosystem fully, then I'll embrace this mindset too. I've found da way.
Why bother buying two full price copies of AoD on BMT with fake address, so goverment and Steam don't snatch half of your revenue, when I can just get it in a bundle like this https://www.fanatical.com/en/bundle/fantasy-legends-bundle ?
Very convenient, nice price, such satisfied customer, Steam key ! I'll buy colony ship rpg in a bundle like this, be grateful, I pay your bills.

 

[Cromwell]

But since customer is your master and you won't even dare to question them in a forum discussion, and embrace current ecosystem fully, then I'll embrace this mindset too. I've found da way.
Why bother buying two full price copies of AoD on BMT with fake address, so goverment and Steam don't snatch half of your revenue, when I can just get it in a bundle like this https://www.fanatical.com/en/bundle/fantasy-legends-bundle ?
Very convenient, nice price, such satisfied customer, Steam key ! I'll buy colony ship rpg in a bundle like this, be grateful, I pay your bills.

Did you just try to verbally slap him by telling him sarcastically that you (people) could buy his games in sales / bundles? If he didnt want his games there they wouldnt be there. This thread has become retard central.

Epic says that if Valve matches its 12% cut and some other conditions then it will stop buying exclusives.

"if you do what we need to survive we stop killing ourselves financially!" I swear to fuck the man is not only named todd sweeny he behaves like it.

 

[Big Wrangle]

I'm sure Epic will also increase the cut slightly and drop the whole freebies stuff after they establish a large consumer base.

 

[fantadomat]

first world problem indeed.

Location: Italy

Living in the Seventh world i see.