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Epic vs Steam - the console war comes to PC

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by LESS T_T, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Junmarko Arcane Patron

    Junmarko
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Timestamped at Sweeney's response.

    "I'm looking forward to Tencent hearing about this and then Sweeney's whole statement being redacted".

    Lol.

     
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  2. Mojobeard Scholar

    Mojobeard
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    Tencent owns 5% of Activision Blizzard. But apparently their 40% ownership of Epic doesn't mean anything. And pigs fly.
     
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  3. Ismaul Citizen First Class #3333 Patron

    Ismaul
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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    I prefer myself too.
     
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  4. passerby Savant

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    It's not about company shares it's about a potential of loosing a growing market, since they were constantly being threatened with ban on this market.
    This is a decision purely by Activision Blizzard leadership and they sold these 5% to Tencent only so they would lobby for them in the Chinese government in the first place, they sure didn't need these money at any point to grow their bussiness.

    Unless you represent a majority shareholder all you can do, is to camplain on the board meeting, or to sell the shares.
    Which Epic wouldn't mind at this point, since they don't need money anymore and don't have much more shares to sell without loosing control, so dropping share price would only be an opportunity to buy some shares back.

    When any of these companies bend over to Chinese, it's because of the Chinese growing market, Tencents 40% share ownership is actually a bigger leverage for negotiations with the Chinese goverment, since market ban would be damaging to a major Chinese corp at this point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  5. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    My inner Yoda came half way out.
     
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  6. Dexter Arcane

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    How much do you realistically think it costs Valve to specifically list J_C 's game on their store and provide people that have purchased it with the ability to download it? Do you think it's more or less than Megaupload hosting it for free or imgur or whatever hosting a bunch of Screenshots from it?
     
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  7. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    You'd have to factor in the cost of Steam building up their massive user base and infrastructure for 16 years so that he can enjoy his game being accessible to such a massive audience.
     
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  8. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    You don't, none of that has absolutely any relevance whatsoever on what it effectively costs Steam to list a random game made by J_C and facilitate a few people downloading it. The cost is a fix amount that doesn't really change based on how long the service has been operating or how massive the audience is.
     
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  9. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    So we should just ignore the massive amount of money invested and risk Valve took in creating Steam?
    That's the same retarded communist argument people use for saying employers create nothing of value.
     
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  10. Dexter Arcane

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    These are factual statements that don't depend on or have anything to do with the popularity of Steam or your emotional appeal to "MUH GOMMUNISM!"
    None of what you're arguing changes or has anything to do with how much it effectively costs Steam to list J_C's game. It's a few database entries that he himself fills out and someone at Valve might go over once to see if he uploaded something naughty as a Screenshot before pressing the Live button, also the hosting cost of a few screenshots and a Trailer with very low traffic and the download of a few MB each time someone wants to play it. I'd be very surprised if the cost of listing his game was even measurable for Valve, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere around the price of a coffee or lower over the lifetime of such a game (and I might be overstating that based on it not being entirely automated and there being a person involved wasting a minute or two at one point or another). The fact that they already have a far-reaching worldwide infrastructure in place just makes the actual cost lower than it would be on say itch.io or his own website.

    What you're talking about is whether it's worth for J_C to agree to Steam's terms of taking 30% off the Sale price anyway, knowing the costs for them are that low given their wide reach to a large worldwide audience, which is an entirely different question than "what it costs them" to host it or what their overhead is.
     
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  11. passerby Savant

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    The initial investment and risk involved in creating Steam was like two orders of magnitude smaller than with Epic.
    After it's introduction it always grew organically, financed from current profits, to serve demands as they arised, to receive guaranteed returns.
     
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  12. Dexter Arcane

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    We were doing so well, and then someone has to go ahead and say something even dumber than "YOUR ARGUMENT IS GOMMUNISM!". The initial investment and risk involved in developing something that doesn't exist is always orders of magnitude larger than coming in after something is a proven concept as a competitor and doing a #MeToo while trying to copy any good features (although to Epic's benefit, they really didn't copy that much yet since they don't really HAVE any noteworthy features and "shopping cart" turned into a running joke).

    We've talked about this a lot of pages ago, but Valve didn't even want to develop Steam to begin with, they mainly needed something to facilitate Autoupdates and hassle-free Patching of one of their popular Online franchises (Counter Strike), as well as an Anti-Cheating solution and went around asking Tech companies like Microsoft, Yahoo, Real and whatnot asking if they have or could provide a solution, finding out to their detriment that nobody was doing anything like they needed so they decided to do it themselves, probably not knowing if it'll be a success or be adopted at all or if they're wasting their time and (at that time limited) money. They came up with selling games over it afterwards and they didn't even sell any third party software for the first 3 years of the platform's lifespan after its release:
    Show Spoiler


    None of this has to do with the cost of hosting/featuring a small RPG Maker game on their platform though, since they would have done all of that without the existence of J_C's or Vault Dweller's games anyway, and let's just say neither of their games have the kind of profile that would influence any change or addition to their feature-set or initiate any kind of large investment or expansion, since Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto V, Assassin's Creed, DOTA 2, PUBG or even Destiny 2 or Warframe they ain't.
     
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  13. passerby Savant

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    Pure bullshit, the more developed the industry is, the higher is economic barrier to entry, it's basic economics.

    The only situation where copypasta service can easily crush the original, is when someone makes copypasta of new proven idea that is in early stages of growth, with order of magnitue higher budget and literally steal the market from before the nose of the original creators.
     
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  14. Dexter Arcane

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    These are not, at all, the same statements. The initial investment and risk involved in creating something (and as we've established Steam wasn't even supposed to be an Online Store initially, which is what made it actually big) has nothing to do with whether a "copypasta service" can "crush the original".
     
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  15. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    First, did you really feel the need to tag me in every fucking post of yours? And three times in ever post?
    Second, if you really think that Valve only offers a server and a storepage for users, than I don't know if I can convince you of the adventages of Steam.
     
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  16. Junmarko Arcane Patron

    Junmarko
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  17. Dexter Arcane

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    Yes, J_C I did. I don't need to be "convinced of the advantages of Steam". I want to know how my statement that they have very little overhead listing and selling your game and that it costs almost nothing to do so that you initially took issue with is wrong. Or do you think Valve pays staff, put up additional server and does R&D because of "Exile Squadron" or even "Age of Decadence"?
     
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  18. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    I don't really get what you mean here. Of course they are not adding extra servers for 2 games. But servers and store maintenance for 10 thousand games, R&D for new features and staff overhead costs money.
     
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  19. Wyatt_Derp Learned

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    Where's Liberty Prime when we need him?

     
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  20. Ezeekiel Arbiter

    Ezeekiel
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    Hate to link to games media, but probably a good short little read for people who aren't yet aware of steam's own physical network etc: https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-delivered-15-billion-gigabytes-of-data-in-2018/
    They don't just rent a bunch of servers and rely on the existing net to deliver the data.

    Wonder what the costs of building your own sort-of separate internet infrastructure are. Something tells me a good chunk of those 30% go into that... Do they go so far as to have their own fiber optic connections across the oceans?
     
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  21. deuxhero Arcane

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    What could this even be used for though? Only Steam games I can think of with local MP only are the SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics, which are literally just an emulator with roms.

    edit: If it works with non-Steam games, it could be used for other emulators. Still not much purpose I see.

    edit: Tales of Games.
     
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  22. Jenkem Cipher Patron

    Jenkem
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    there are tons of indie games that are either local MP focused or have local MP side modes but not the time/resources to make it online
     
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  23. Dickie Arcane Patron

    Dickie
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    There are currently almost 7k games on steam with Shared/Split-Screen and about 2,500 with local co-op:

    https://store.steampowered.com/search?category3=24
     
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  24. deuxhero Arcane

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    How many that don't also have online MP though?
     
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  25. MuscleSpark Savant Patron

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    The most-requested one I can think of is TowerFall Ascension.
    Thankfully Steam allows one to search by tags so here is the full list of games with Shared/Split Screen https://store.steampowered.com/search/?category2=24
    A lot of the benefit comes from only having to buy one copy of a game and being able to play it with any of your friends.

    Edit: Damn Ninjas.
     
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