Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

[Gerrard]

Anyone remember that old meme "whenever you pirate stuff you're downloading COMMUNISM"? Someone should update that and replace "piracy" with "Epic Games/Tencent".

Straight from /v/

 

[cosmicray]

Can someone explain what exactly Epic is doing to lure publishers to use their store exclusively?

Paying them off directly, and apparently insuring them for a guaranteed certain amount of Sales monetarily. Also since Borderlands 3 is an Unreal-Engine game, waiving all licensing fees incurred and offering a smaller overhead (12% instead of 30/25/20% as Steam).

Wow.

 

[Perkel]

Epic literally has sales guarantee clause which gives devs money for full priced coppies that didn't reach agreed sales number.
That shit alone is worth few milions for indies and dozen for huge games if there is such a deal.

 

[Alienman]

It's the bank bailout for poorly made indie games.

 

[Astral Rag]

Interesting post:

Epic Game Store, Spyware, Tracking, and You!

So I've been poking at the Epic Game Store for a little while now. I'd first urge anyone seeing this to check out this excellent little post to see how things go titsup when tencent gets involved. Of course, it shouldn't even need to be stated that they have very heavy ties to the Chinese government, who do all sorts of wonderful things for their people, like building hard labor camps creating employment opportunities for minorities and Muslims, and harvesting organs from political prisoners for profit redistributing biomatter to help those less fortunate.

But this isn't about that, this is about what I've found after poking the Epic Game Store client for a bit. Keep in mind that I am a rank amateur - if any actual experts here want to look at what I've scraped and found, shoot me a DM and I can send you what I've got.

One of the first things I noticed is that EGS likes to enumerate running processes on your computer. As you can see, there aren't many in my case; I set up a fresh laptop for this. This is a tad worrying - what do they need that information for? And why is it trying to access DLLs in the directories of some of my applications?

More worrying is that it really likes reading about your root certificates. Like, a lot.

In fact, there's a fair bit of odd registry stuff going on period. Like I said, I'm an amateur, so if there are any non-amateur people out there who would be able to explain why it's poking at keys that are apparently associated with internet explorer, I'd appreciate it. It seems to like my IE cookies, too.

In my totally professional opinion, the EGS client appears to have a severe mental disorder, as it loves talking to itself.

I'm sure that this hardware survey information it's apparently storing in the registry won't be used for anything nefarious or identifiable at all. Steam is at least nice enough to ask you to partake in their hardware surveys.

Now that's just what it's doing locally on the computer. Let's look at traffic briefly. Fiddler will, if you let it, install dank new root certs and sniff out/decrypt SSL traffic for you. Using it and actually reading through results is a right pain though, and gives me a headache - and I only let the Epic client run long enough to log in, download slime rancher, click a few things, and then I terminated the process. Even that gave me an absolute shitload of traffic to look through, despite filtering out the actual download traffic. The big concern that everyone has is tracking, right? Well, Epic does that in SPADES. Look at all those requests. Look at the delicious "tracking.js". Mmm, I'm sure Xi Jinping is going to love it. Here's a copy of that script, I couldn't make heads or tails of it, but I'm also unfamiliar with JS. It looks less readable than PERL, though.

I didn't see any massive red flags in the traffic. I didn't see any root certs being created. But I also had 279 logged connections to look at by hand, on an old laptop, and simply couldn't view it all, there's an absolute fuckload of noise to go through, and I didn't leave the client running for very long. It already took me hours to sort through the traffic, not to mention several hundred thousand entries in ProcMon.

If you want to replicate this, it's pretty easy. Grab Fiddler and set it up, enable SSL decryption (DON'T FORGET TO REMOVE THE CERTS AFTERWARDS), start up Epic, and watch the packets flow, like a tranquil brook, all the way to Tim Sweeney's gaping datacenters. Use ProcMon if you want an extremely detailed, verbose of absolutely everything that the client does to your computer, you'll need to play with filters for a while to get it right. And I'm sure there are better ways to view what's going on inside of network traffic - but I am merely a rank amateur.

I give this game storefront a final rating of: PRETTY SKETCHY / 10, with an additional award for association with Tencent. As we all know, they have no links to the Chinese government whatsoever, and even if they did, the Chinese government would NEVER spy on a foreign nation's citizens, any more than they would on their own.

I also welcome attempts from people who do this professionally to take a crack at figuring out what sorts of questionable things the Epic client does. Seriously, I'd love to know what you find.

NB: CreateFile in ProcMon can actually indicate that a file is being opened, not necessarily created.

edit: oh yeah it also does a bunch of weird multicast stuff that'll mess with any TVs on your network. Good job, Epic.

 

[Steamboat Willie]

I haven't used their shitty launcher. Does it require Admin privileges to run?

 

[cosmicray]

Interesting post:

Maybe not. You'd amazed how much is going on in ProcMon. That tiddler directory might have been in %Path%, so it checked it. And IE is really tied to OS, especially Win7, so it's no wonder everyone wants to know its settings regarding internet/proxy. Root certificates store is also exists for a purpose - to be used by other applications to check validity of certificates. So unless we investigate every query thoroughly there is nothing really going on out of the ordinary. Especially for a closed-source software.

 

[GrainWetski]

Seems like retardera did something good for once. They followed up on the above Reddit post.

This is of course entirely in the interest of the consumers and competition. Sweeney and SirGay really need to read up on GDPR.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/de...llect-your-steam-friends-play-history.105385/

So this comes originaly from Reddit, I found out via lashman Metacounil post.
(This is not endorsement of those findings)

But I tried to replicate those and found out that Epic Games Launcher on start up searches for Steam install
and proceeds to get list of files in your Steam Cloud (this includes mostly game saves for every user that has logged in on your PC)

Steam Cloud is stored under userdata\[account id]\ if you wanna check

It will also create encrypted copy of config\localconfig.vdf.
This file contains your steam friends, their name history (groups you're part of, are considered "friends").

It seems friends might be used for friends suggestions, but I don't even use that feature and it collects more than that.

While it's called "localhistory" it is synced from cloud

It will read, encrypt and then write copy to: C:\ProgramData\Epic\SocialBackup\RANDOM HEX CODE_STEAM ACCOUNT ID.bak
It will also keep historical entries there.

As for contents of file:

Example of friends entry:

Play history, will contain last playtime

300 = Day of Defeat

Code:
"300"
{
"LastPlayed" "1384125348"
}
(1384125348 is unix timestamp near end of 2013). Apparently I have played this then.

To replicate these findings you can use Microsofts Process Explorer:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

To replicate these findings you can use Microsofts Process Monitor:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon

It's recommended to add filter: "ProcessName is EpicGamesLauncher.exe" otherwise there will be tons of crap. Also you can set Drop Filtered events to save on memory.

First step is finding out where Steam is:

Then it will enumerate everything in Steam Cloud.

It doesn't seem to read anything, but just names of all your saves of games

Then it will read localconfig.vdf

after it's done:

42834588 = steam account id

76561197960265728 + account id = steam id = 76561198003100316 (this is my account)

 

[yolu]

Welcome to China, son!

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/de...llect-your-steam-friends-play-history.105385/

76561198003100316 (this is my account)

guy has almost 8k games in his account, spent between $20k and $61k:
https://steamcommunity.com/id/madjoki/
https://steamdb.info/calculator/76561198003100316/?cc=us

Hours on record: 20,132h
Average playtime: 4.5h

 

[Metro]

Very consumer friendly.

 

[Mustawd]

After all, that's why that new social network Facebook failed to lure people away from our beloved MySpace or why Google failed to lure people away from Yahoo and CompuServe, right?

Sure, but they did this primarily by capturing entirely new demographics that ended up numerically swamping the legacy platform. I don't know if this is possible in the PC gaming space - it could be the market is basically maxed out.

But if it is possible, the question becomes "How do I trigger the generational shift?". Epic's answer: Start out with your base of Fortnite kiddies, grow the platform with exclusives and hope they stick around.

Sure, but it’s only one way to skin a cat. The original point being made was that Epic “has” to do it.

 

[Steamboat Willie]

Can't wait to hear all about how this data mining was just a "mistake" and never intended to be activated.

 

[fantadomat]

There is only two options for gamers,the first one is GoG,the second one is:

 

[BlackAdderBG]

So it's one option then.

 

[Astral Rag]

We use a tracking pixel (tracking.js) for our Support-A-Creator program so we can pay creators. We also track page statistics.

The launcher sends a hardware survey (CPU, GPU, and the like) at a regular interval as outlined in our privacy policy (see the “Information We Collect or Receive” section). You can find the code here.

The UDP traffic highlighted in this post is a launcher feature for communication with the Unreal Editor. The source of the underlying system is available on github.

The majority of the launcher UI is implemented using web technology that is being rendered by Chromium (which is open source). The root certificate and cookie access mentioned above is a result of normal web browser start up.

The launcher scans your active processes to prevent updating games that are currently running. This information is not sent to Epic.

We only import your Steam friends with your explicit permission. The launcher makes an encrypted local copy of your localconfig.vdf Steam file. However information from this file is only sent to Epic if you choose to import your Steam friends, and then only hashed ids of your friends are sent and no other information from the file.

Epic is controlled by Tim Sweeney. We have lots of external shareholders, none of whom have access to customer data.

Daniel Vogel

VP of Engineering

Epic Games Inc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0rxdq/comment/eijlbge/

 

[Alienman]

Damn, Tim Sweeney himself is in that thread.

 

[Dexter]

Damn, Tim Sweeney himself is in that thread.

He's been trying to do damage control the past few hours: https://www.reddit.com/user/timsweeneyepic/comments/

 

[flyingjohn]

Damn,even r/programming are massively shilling for epic.
People on hacker news are calling them out on their bullshit.

 

[GrainWetski]

I really don't understand why random people are shilling so much for Epic. I understand that gamejournos hate Steam and gamers, so they make sense. Developers are obviously getting paid.

But fucking random cunts? Epic employees working overtime?

 

[Dexter]

http://archive.li/bHa5q

Original X-COM creator faces backlash after signing Epic Games store exclusive deal for Phoenix Point
"It was not our intention to scam anyone."

Wesley Yin-Poole
Deputy Editor

The creator of the original X-COM, Julian Gollop has endured a backlash after signing a Epic Games store exclusivity deal for his next title.

Hotly-anticipated turn-based strategy game Phoenix Point, billed as a spiritual successor to the original X-COM, was crowdfunded to the tune of $765,948 by over 10,000 backers on FIG back in June 2017. At the time, a Steam key for Phoenix Point was promised to those who'd helped make the game a reality.

Fast forward to March 2019, and Phoenix Point is now exclusive to the Epic Games store for one year. While backers will get a Steam or GOG key after the first year in addition to their Epic key, they'll also get three DLC packs for free. Gollop is also offering a full refund to any backer who wants it.

Despite this, a cursory glance at the game's subreddit, Discord and social media shows backers are upset. Explaining the decision in a reddit AMA, Gollop said he had approached Epic about the possibility of signing a deal, and the money received would significantly benefit the game.

"It allows to commit more to the launch without risk, and more to supporting the game immediately post launch," Gollop said.

This AMA however, has fallen on deaf ears, and there's a real sense of discontent brewing within Phoenix Point's community. There are posts that accuse Gollop and Phoenix Point of being a scam, and there's even a drive to request refunds.

"I think what makes this particularly galling is how they basically used us backers for an interest-free loan," wrote redditor Spinecone.

"They took our money, developed to the point where it was mature enough to attract external investors, then totally changed the game plan and fully expect us to withdraw our cash, since they're now out of the high-risk phase of the project that nobody but us actual fans would back and have a mature product that's been guaranteed external funding.

"They conned us into lending them the money, and manoeuvred it so we'd be sitting on the bill if the development project failed. For a game that sold itself based on community involvement, with backer builds and all, this is just awful."

In a follow-up with Eurogamer, Gollop apologised to upset backers.

"For those backers who are upset by our switch of delivery platform, we are truly sorry," he said.

"It was not our intention to scam anyone. The best we can do is offer compensation in the form of free extra content, which we will deliver throughout the launch year. This will include at least three major DLC packs. They will also receive a Steam key or GOG key, in addition to their Epic key, at the end of the exclusivity period. If they are not happy with this, we will give a full refund."

Epic's bid to disrupt the PC game sales market and challenge Steam has proved a controversial one, with a raft of games suffering a backlash after ditching Valve's platform for Epic's. In the case of 4A Games' Metro Exodus, the fallout from ditching Steam for the Epic Games store got pretty messy.

The negative reaction to Phoenix Point is exacerbated, however, by the fact the project was crowdfunded and, with that, carries a set of expectations by those who've already forked out money to see it through to the end.

The Epic Games store is still in its infancy, of course, and it's not yet clear whether developers who sign exclusive deals with the platform for games that have previously had a presence on Steam see an impact on sales at launch.

Gollop told Eurogamer he expects the Epic Games store to have improved by the time Phoenix Point comes out, and doesn't expect the current trouble will negatively impact release.

"I don't think the Epic deal will affect Phoenix Point on launch," Gollop said.

"By that time the Epic store will be more established, with more features. I know Epic are genuinely committed to building a store which is both developer friendly and consumer friendly, and they have some good ideas to make it more distinctive than alternatives."

And while Phoenix Point's community is shouting loudly on the likes of reddit, Gollop said he hasn't seen significant numbers of backers request refunds.

"We sent an email to all our 47,000 backers on Tuesday informing them about the Epic deal," he said. "The following day we had 1300 requests for refunds. The day after it increased to 1600. We don't anticipate that more than five to six per cent of our backers will actually request refunds in the long run."

Phoenix Point is due out September 2019.

 

[A_boring_GOG_bot]

Sure, but they did this primarily by capturing entirely new demographics that ended up numerically swamping the legacy platform. I don't know if this is possible in the PC gaming space - it could be the market is basically maxed out.

But if it is possible, the question becomes "How do I trigger the generational shift?". Epic's answer: Start out with your base of Fortnite kiddies, grow the platform with exclusives and hope they stick around.

Thank God i blocked all the Fornite , CS:GO , GTA , PUBG , TF2 youtube shit .

 

[GrainWetski]

http://archive.li/bHa5q

Jesus, they're so fucking full of themselves. They need better PR people.

Can't wait for this game and their next to not sell well at all. Epic's not going to keep funding games that won't sell forever. Seems like that's what they're somehow banking on since they have no problems dumping on their customers.

 

[Astral Rag]

"I don't think the Epic deal will affect Phoenix Point on launch," Gollop said.

 

[Reinhardt]

Well, at least i learned one thing - fuck indies. Go beg for geld for your game development from Epic. No finished game - no money.