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Epic vs Steam - the console war comes to PC

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by LESS T_T, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    The future of the games industry is here, everyone! Games turning profit without having sold a single copy to a single player! Who needs customers anyway, when Epic Games will pay for your game? They cry and bitch all the time anyway and they probably smell, this is the future of game development right here! Everyone should focus the development of their games to be things that Tim Sweeney likes since a playerbase has become redundant and isn't needed anymore henceforth, FREE REVENUE and a sustainable business model, Indie development is saved!
    Principles of New Game Design #1: "Ask Ye Not What the Audience Wants, Ask Ye What the Sweeney Desires."
     
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  2. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    Akshually Backer Build 4 of Phoenix Point uses Epic launcher, so it might count as Early Access title or similar.
     
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  3. Cromwell Arcane

    Cromwell
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    not only that people also just post "just use epic". There is not one counterargument in the whole thread why I should use anything when its worse than what I already got (regardless of the fact if I even use the features/sales/whatever) just "use or your a dumdum its the same"
     
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  4. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Epic Store = safe space.
     
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  5. passerby Savant

    passerby
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    Not that I care about the game, but it will be DRM free, Epic launcher will be required to download updates, but you can backup install folder of downloaded/updated game which you can run from exe bypassing the launcher.
    All backers will also receive a Steam/GOG key after a year in addition to Epic key. And they gave a refund to everyone that asked for it.
    But they took a deal that already secured funding of their next game! What a scammers, how dare they making money :roll: So, to summarise the last two pages:

    Gabe and CDP don't care about the money, but saved PC gaming and this prick Gollop should be grateful forever for the opportunity of sharing 30% of sales revenue with these gaming saints, instead this disloyal asshole made a deal with devilish chinks.
    Fucking Sweeney and Gollop are disgusting douche bags that care only about the money and should go fuck themselves. The game being shit and in need of a safe space, is clearly the only reason to not lick Gabe's asshole and pass on glorious 3% market share of cool rebels at GOG.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  6. Reinhardt Arcane

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    Taking money under specific obligations and then refusing to fulfill your part of the deal is a scam. No "witty" remarks will change it.
     
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  7. Jigawatt Arcane

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    There are probably more than these, but you can already get Super Meat Boy, Subnautica, The Witness, and Slime Rancher from Epic Store, copy-paste to an external HDD then play them on a different machine without EGS installed, DRM free. I agree Phoenix Point backing out of a deal with paying customers is pretty scummy but they seem committed to following the same route.
     
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  8. Reinhardt Arcane

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    If you can officially take money but refuse to deliver product then it's fine to take product but refuse to deliver money.
     
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  9. Drakron Arcane

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    They didnt, Phoenix Point is hardly completed and will not see a release this year and they will still have another year of having to support Phoenix Point, they will not start working on their next game until 2022, besides Epic is just advancing payments meaning they will take a cut from sales until Epic gets their advanced payment back, Epic is not funding their next game because every cent they paid in advance will be taken out from sales.
     
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  10. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    In case that wasn't clear, they took money from their future sales. That's rarely a good business decision.

    Allegedly, they got 2.2 mil which roughly corresponds to 50,000 copies at $40-50, which is nothing. In comparison XCOM2 sold 500,000 copies within the first week. It would be hardly unreasonable to expect PP to sell 500,000 copies in the first few months, which would have earned them 20+ mil in gross sales, 14+ mil net. That's what at stake here. They took 2 mil now to defer 14+ mil for a year.

    Ideally, they'd sell well on Epic, make a few millions, iron out some bugs and flaws, release on Steam a year later and claim their 14 mil or more. That's your best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that the game breaks even on Epic, so Epic gets their money back but Gollop earns nothing or very little in the first year, which can cripple a studio. What's worse (potentially) is that the game would be heavily pirated (remember Arcanum? Sierra was sitting on it for 6 months doing localization while the game was on every warez site, which resulted in a very weak release), which would affect future sales as well. Not to mention the backlash and all.

    Then there's a question of the release price. Selling on Steam at full price on release is one thing, at a discounted rate is another. Many players would expect 30-40% off for a year old game. It would probably land somewhere in between (best and worst case scenario) but I doubt that things would go as smoothly as Gollop expects or hopes for. His decision WILL cost him sales, one way or another. The only question is how much.
     
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  11. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    If that's true that makes Epic less terrible than I thought, but still pretty bad compared to other stores.

    With GoG, you get an installer that lets you install the game anywhere rather than having to install with a launcher and then just haphazardly copy the folder. It's better because it makes sure registry entires are correct and all that.
    With Steam, some games also don't require the launcher so you can do it with a couple of games on Steam, too.

    Which again proves my point that Epic is just Steam, except worse because less features and worse customer service.
     
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  12. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

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    Wait, is that how Epic's deal works? I thought the money Epic gave them was just no-questions-asked bribe money. No matter what happens, you get that money and keep it.

    Then they get a number of guaranteed sales in addition to that, which means if during the exclusivity period the game sells below a certain number, Epic will pay for the gap between their guaranteed sales number and the actual sales number in addition to the bribe money given beforehand.

    If there's no bribe money and it has all just been guaranteed sales money, then yeah, it's a terrible deal because it means the first 2 million or however much it was Epic gave to them in sales are gonna go to Epic.

    I don't think that's how it works though because no sane developer would fall for a bribe with such conditions unless he believed his game was shit and wouldn't sell.
     
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  13. Reinhardt Arcane

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    :philosoraptor:
     
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  14. GrainWetski Arcane

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    Why do you think they're scrambling to make it resemble FiraXCOM as much as possible? They have no faith whatsoever in the game.
     
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  15. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    I don't think so. It's not a sustainable model whereas advancing developers millions against future sales, which does act as a min sales guarantee (i.e. no matter what happens Gollop has already sold 50,000 copies), is a good business model for Epic where they risk very little as there's no way PP sells less than 50k units in the first year.

    They would if:

    - they needed 2 mil to finish the game
    - they believed that they won't lose any sales and anyone who wants the game will just buy it on Epic which will cost them only 12%. Then it's a great deal.
     
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  16. normie Scholar Patron Zionist Agent

    normie
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    I'm getting the sense that the talent he's working with is simply not capable of conjuring up something other than a shoulderpadded clone of firaxis' xcum; so it's not that they're scrambling to make it a certain way, but that they simply couldn't hack it at making it any different

    the scrambling is to get it out the door
     
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  17. passerby Savant

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    For the record it's practically 7% revenue cut, since Unreal Engine license fee is free for sales on Epic Store vs 30% cut on Steam.

    For a self employed guys, that work for free and share revenue like you at Iron Tower it just mean 23% smaller salary, sucks but not the end of the world.
    From a perspective of someone who run it as a bussiness and have to pay in full all the bills, salaries and loans/investors first, it could very well be a difference between a moderate success and loosing serious money.

    I agree that that this move will loose him money in the end, but if I was a developer I'd prefer to live in a world where the second point was actually true, because gamers care about your bottom line if the game is good, it is what it is though.
    This Epic deal is a bit like an early access, influx of money on the last stretch of production, except better because you charge full price for these advance sales, or rather it would be if gamers didn't believed, you deserve punishment for it.
     
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  18. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Fuck me sideways,just found out that those cucks from phoenix point are from the Bulgarian capital. The scum even offered refunds instead of running away with all the money,they bring dishonour to our scamming communities:argh::argh::argh:.
     
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  19. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    I'm pretty sure it's both an outright bribe and a guaranteed sales advance, both negotiated with the respective developers based on what they have to offer. People were saying that it's (obviously) "not suistainable" from very early on, and they afaik commented on not being able to do this forever themselves.

    But as long as they've still got all that Fortnite money coming in...:
     
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  20. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    IF one can sell on Epic as much as one can sell on Steam, Epic's deal is obviously way better. The problem is, there's no fucking way these markets are the same.

    If that were true, then selling direct from your own website would be the best deal ever (for the developers) and neither Steam nor Epic would be able to compete with that. We sold 0.6% (copies sold) direct. Steam dwarfed it in the first week because that's where the action is. The notion that you can lure gamers away from that market because you offer a better deal to the developers and making games exclusive for a year is stunningly absurd and out of touch with reality.
     
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  21. Drakron Arcane

    Drakron
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    The bigger problem is both projects from Snapshot Games been crowd funded, Phoenix Point have to make bank and it have to really make bank so he can get some publisher backing the next project because he eroded a lot of good will by this move, next time he goes asking for funds there will be people remind everyone that what Snapshot Games is doing is using then to get a deal with the real investors.
     
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  22. passerby Savant

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    I don't know, it worked for Origin and Blizzard. Epic have recognition and resources to create a simillar ecosystem in theory.
    The timed instead of permanent exclusivity is what will make it fail for sure, people will just wait, permanent exclusives is the only thing could work, even if unlikely and would be one hell of a bet.
     
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  23. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    EA and Blizzard had decades long following. Blizzard even has annual Blizcons for its devoted worshipers. Giving them a place to buy and play Blizzard games was a no-brainer, not to mention that battle.net is older than Steam. Plus the fans are eager to support Blizzard as it's the maker of their beloved games and popular hits like 'do you guys not have phones?', not just a store owner.
     
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  24. Ismaul Citizen First Class #3333 Patron

    Ismaul
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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    Steam is getting clever. Unless I've been blind for a while, they've just introduced a Changelog button on the Friends list. Might be to show that they're constantly working on features while Epic has fuckall.
     
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  25. abija Liturgist

    abija
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    And they still had to use dirty tricks like having proper autologin just from the launcher to make people adopt it.
     
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